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Children, parents, restaurants, manners, etiquette... - Page 7

post #121 of 200

Bolding mine:

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by velochic View Post


So, it seems that instead of answering my question with a simple, "No, we don't teach our children the rules of dining etiquette, we teach them manners to get by", it becomes a pissing contest because we can afford to eat at restaurants where these etiquette points my come in handy and you can't.  Sorry for your lot in life, but we worked our asses off to be here and I'll be damned to apologize for it.  Posters like you made this thread something that from my very first post, I said I didn't want it to be.  Go cry in a corner.

 

Ouch.  That seems a bit uncalled for and definitely not a statement Miss Manners or Emily Post would agree was polite.

 

I believe there is a difference between apologizing about where you are in life and belittling those who are not in the same position.  Or assuming they did not work as hard as you and that is why they are where they are.  Your "lot in life" is about so much more than hard work.

 

There's also a difference between quietly being able to afford things and holding that over others as proof of being a better person (or harder worker)  than they are.

post #122 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by seriosa View Post
Thank heavens in this country there is no such thing or even discussion of "child-free environments". Children are welcome everywhere, and everywhere I have been I have seen children able to behave themselves appropriately. Maybe it depends that it is so normal for children and adults to socialise in many occasions and contexts, both formal and informal. Maybe it depends that this is a very child-friendly culture, so my idea of "appropriate" would be some other cultures idea of running wild. I don't know.

 

 

 

 

thank you, for saying that. "child-free environments"? what next.

 

OP, have you frequently encountered the kind of behavior exhibited by this particular child? i would think it is not the norm, so who knows what the background is. also, am somewhat mystified as to the connection between this incident and general manners and specific etiquette? because it is safe to assume it's not often that children that age behave thus.

 

manners are important. etiquette is the production people make in order to make a statement about their "class", wealth and status wink1.gif. to each his own.

 

(reposting, quote malfunction earlier)

 


 

 

post #123 of 200

The statement about how hard work was what got you to the wealthy point in your life.  Go read the thread if you want more.

 

Again back to food.  Why is that the bread rule though?  I get that it is, but I want to know why.  Why is tearing food up more polite than biting it off?  I need to know and I'm too lazy to Google lol.

post #124 of 200
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyMarie View Post
 


And you'll notice I edited it out immediately after posting it.  You were too quick to swoop in and catch me.  Good for you.  And actually, it's what I truly feel, so perhaps it's best to be out there.  I hope you and honey have made yourselves feel better by Velo-bashing.  It seems you needed it, and I have no problems with you taking out your frustrations on me.

 

post #125 of 200
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honey693 View Post

The statement about how hard work was what got you to the wealthy point in your life.  Go read the thread if you want more.

 

Again back to food.  Why is that the bread rule though?  I get that it is, but I want to know why.  Why is tearing food up more polite than biting it off?  I need to know and I'm too lazy to Google lol.


I just read the thread.  I made two statements, neither of which you are referring to, and neither having anything to do with wealth or work or anything else.  Perhaps YOU should go re-read the thread.

 

post #126 of 200

You said you got where you were "working your ass off".  That statement got people on the other thread upset (not with you or your direct statement, just when some else said it) b/c a lot of life is luck (or something, I stopped reading halfway  through b/c of screaming kids).

 

So does anyone know about the bread rule?

 

And I just realised I never chimed in as to what I expect my kids to do at dinners out.  We bring a small bag with crayons, s small toy and some books for DD1.  That usually holds her together and if not we leave.  The baby is different.  I'll bring her food (b/c we go out for chicken wings a lot during football season and babies don't get chicken wings here), a soft toy and if she gets fussy I'll nurse her, which I'm guessing would be a no no at TFL.  If nursing doesn't work I walk out, walk the baby in the parking lot and DH will finish his food, pay the bill and join me in the car.

 

 

post #127 of 200

...that's the problem with the world today.  peoples are angry and don't read posts for comprehension.  that and they slurp their soups and butter the whole dang piece of toast.... 

everybody take a deep breath.  and just to toss this in the salad... there are people who live in big cities and don't have big kitchens, and go out to eat a whole lot more than people who live in suburbs, small towns, and rural areas. 

and i had to look up wth a french laundry was.  i figured from the name it was either a euphemism for a bordello, a place to get your stripey shirt with white cuffs cleaned, or from the context a fancy place.  must be nice!

and.. um... according to a recent poll, there seem to be, again, lots of mdc folks who claim incomes at least above 75,000 so i really don't see why anybody's up in arms about who makes what and spends it on fancy dinners. 

post #128 of 200

I had to look up TFL the first time too.  And then I didn't know what a lot of the menu was lol.  

post #129 of 200

i did.. we got frog legs around here too.  i imagine it's a completely different experience from the fl though.  though hilarious to think about the similarities between what locals (and my own relatives) around here eat and high french cuisine. 

post #130 of 200
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honey693 View Post

You said you got where you were "working your ass off".  That statement got people on the other thread upset (not with you or your direct statement, just when some else said it) b/c a lot of life is luck (or something, I stopped reading halfway  through b/c of screaming kids).

 

No, I didn't say that.  Look again.  I said that in THIS thread (in a post I actually immediately deleted and you caught).  Not in any other thread.

 

 



 

post #131 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adaline'sMama View Post

I think that what you are looking for is for someone to say that Yes, they teach their child which fork to eat with and which way to dip their soup out, but you are asking people who dont regularly take their kids out to eat at a place where there even IS a second fork. I eat almost exclusively local restaurants that serve locally grown food and hormone free meat, but they dont have the extra silverware. Little things like which way to spoon your soup out is great to know, but I think you paired it with people not paying attention to their kids while they were eating, letting kids wipe bbq sauce everywhere, and scenes from casual dining settings. If you had straight asked "Do you teach your kids fine dining etiquitte?" your response would have been different. I think its great that your kids are learning that stuff, and it may come in handy one day.
 



What I got from OP's original post was that she took an episode she witnessed and widened the scope of discussion. The wealth-or-not-wealth is rather irrelevant to the discussion. Do children have opportunities to socialise in adult contextts, and do they know how to do so? Is there a behaviour scale (like there might be a dress scale) that distinguishes what you and/or your children do in your "Date-night-worthy-nice-pants" place with respect to your "oops-I-forgot-to-defrost-dinner-lets-get-something-out" place, whatever your frame of reference for these places might be? Is etiquette just about distinguishing a fish  knife from a steak knife and knowing where to put your napkin? Elbows on the table - is that catalogued under etiquette o manners? Tipping (for adults) - etiquette or manners? What about messing up - all those posts on who should do the cleaning? Even if you use one fork or one spoon, if used correctly theres not a lot to clean up - etiquette or manners? The discussion is indeed interesting.

 

 

post #132 of 200
post #133 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by velochic View Post

So, it seems that instead of answering my question with a simple, "No, we don't teach our children the rules of dining etiquette, we teach them manners to get by", it becomes a pissing contest because we can afford to eat at restaurants where these etiquette points my come in handy and you can't.  Sorry for your lot in life, but we worked our asses off to be here and I'll be damned to apologize for it.  Posters like you made this thread something that from my very first post, I said I didn't want it to be.  Go cry in a corner.

 


I'm so glad a couple people quoted "how you really feel" about this before you back-pedaled and edited it out. I'd love to see the quote where someone- anyone- asked you to apologize for being wealthy. Or begrudged you your wealth or lack thereof. Or indicated that they were jealous of you or resentful of their own lot in life because yours is so much better. Or where anyone stated that they have issues with wealthy people in general.

 

 

 

 

post #134 of 200
Quote:

Originally Posted by velochic View Post

 

I can't imagine anyone saying that spending $400 - $500/month on eating out would put you in the "wealthy" bracket.

 


Okay - this is a joke, right? I can't even begin to imagine spending $400-$500/month on eating out. It will never happen....maybe it did in June, if we count ds1's grad banquet ($90 ticket, and ds1, dh and I were all in attendance), but I don't think so. I'd definitely think someone spending that much money on eating out fit into the "wealthy" category (or that they were on a business expense account).

 

post #135 of 200


Wow. So, people actually enjoy dining out at "nice" places, huh? I think I'm wired weird. Dining etiquette of that type just seems freaky and strange to me (not that people follow it - that it exists at all). I can't imagine being societally micromanaged to that degree, just because I wanted to eat a freaking bread roll!

 

In answer to part of the OP, I do think that instruction in formal etiquette is on the wane. I think there are probably many reasons for that. But, I think one of the key ones is that fewer and fewer people accept the idea that one's dining etiquette somehow reflects on one's value as a person. That used to be a given (my grandmother's generation certainly believed it, by and large), but it doesn't seem to be accepted as a basic premise to the same degree these days.

 

post #136 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by velochic View Post




What statement, "hon" (and I'm no friend, either)?  I think you have me confused with someone else.

 

Yes that is the bread rule.  And you can do whatever you want to do with it.   God, I would hate to go through life as bitter as you are.

 


 

ROTFLMAO.gif

 

 

I think we are being etiquette punked, people.

 

Velochic, much applause for the fine performance art.clap.gif

post #137 of 200

biglaugh.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doraline Kae View Post




 

ROTFLMAO.gif

 

 

I think we are being etiquette punked, people.

 

Velochic, much applause for the fine performance art.clap.gif



 

post #138 of 200


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by coffeegirl View Post




I'm so glad a couple people quoted "how you really feel" about this before you back-pedaled and edited it out.

 

 


For goodness sake, I have posted something in haste or anger, realised my error, and edited it out.  That is a polite and kind  thing to do. 

 

I honestly do not understand why everyone is so up in arms.  Was it an error to make a post with ties to wealth, etiquette and manners in the same thread?  Probably.  Is it worth the mean spiritedness shown on this thread?  I do not think so.

 

post #139 of 200

Wait, how am I bitter?  B/c I called her hon?  Dude, I called the cashier at Wal-Mart hon the other day.  It's reflex.  But if velochic wants to think I'm bitter, well bless her little heart.

 

And bread at fancy restaurants just seems like too much trouble.  I am weirdly fixated on bread today b/c I am craving carbs and we're out of bread at home (where I butter the entire slice and bite it).

 

 

post #140 of 200

double post

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