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post #141 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

Ok.  I am not wealthy.  I am pretty middling according to all stats.   I never claim poverty through.  I spend 400$ a month eating out.  There are 5 of us.  One meal out per week at an Outback type place is about 75$ after tip, throw in a pizza order and I am at 100$ per week. 

 

The above is OT - but people can be "not wealthy"  and spend money on restaurants.  Just for all the folks who are exclaiming over the 400$ winky.gif



 

post #142 of 200

I'm not exclaiming over the $400, as such. I'm exclaiming over the "can't imagine anyone saying" that spending that much makes someone wealthy.

 

We're not in poverty. We're not wealthy (dh's income would probably qualify us as wealthy in some places, but not around here), either. And, I honestly can't even imagine spending $400-$500/month on eating out. I've known a few people who did spend that much, and they were, without exception, either wealthy or on business expense accounts (oh - and two cases of people racking up debt that they'll never, ever be able to pay, but that's another category, imo).

 

ETA: I"m not saying you have to be wealthy to spend that much. I'm saying that I find it really strange to suggest that it's somehow unimaginable that someone would equate that much money on eating out with wealth.

post #143 of 200


I called the cashier at wegmans Dear.  "thank you, dear"  Also a reflex.  Something is giving me the impression we are of the young and disrespectful crowd or something.  winky.gif
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Honey693 View Post

Wait, how am I bitter?  B/c I called her hon?  Dude, I called the cashier at Wal-Mart hon the other day.  It's reflex.  But if velochic wants to think I'm bitter, well bless her little heart.

 

And bread at fancy restaurants just seems like too much trouble.  I am weirdly fixated on bread today b/c I am craving carbs and we're out of bread at home (where I butter the entire slice and bite it).

 

 



 

post #144 of 200

by the way in general terms - at least that is the statistics out there - that ones definition of wealthy is anyone who makes double their income. this is in general term.

post #145 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Charlie's~Angel~ View Post


I called the cashier at wegmans Dear.  "thank you, dear"  Also a reflex.  Something is giving me the impression we are of the young and disrespectful crowd or something.  winky.gif
 

 


Actually, I tend to associate "dear" and "hon" and such with older people, not younger ones. It grates on me, but I've learned to just ignore it, because the people saying it rarely mean anything by it. I think it's a regional thing.

 

post #146 of 200

On the bread thing....

 

I've never understood the why of that particular *rule* but I will say this, by breaking it off and eating it in one bite pieces you don't ruin your lipstick.  Really, it works.  LOL.

 

I don't think I have anything else to add beyond that shallow and vain observation at this point.  ;)

post #147 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by meemee View Post

by the way in general terms - at least that is the statistics out there - that ones definition of wealthy is anyone who makes double their income. this is in general term.


Probably very true. Or at least double the income living in the same COL area.
 

 

post #148 of 200

 

 

Quote:
Wow. So, people actually enjoy dining out at "nice" places, huh? 

 

yes

 

I don't want to get into this whole thread but people do use these manner like those that I posted, there are times when it does matter--if you should ever need to deal with others that were raised this way, a situation where you need to have a formal dinner for a business and you are dealing with say someone from outside the us (JUST AN EXAMPLE) having certain manners can mean a deal breaker-others do reflect on manners IRL-some don't 

 

not getting into judgement here-just stating it does happen

post #149 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyMarie View Post

On the bread thing....

 

I've never understood the why of that particular *rule* but I will say this, by breaking it off and eating it in one bite pieces you don't ruin your lipstick.  Really, it works.  LOL.

 

I don't think I have anything else to add beyond that shallow and vain observation at this point.  ;)

 

In the same vein, I would imagine it's because nobody wants to think about your saliva, germs, food detritus, and yes, lipstick on the bread if you took a bite then put the rest down.
 

 

post #150 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by serenbat View Post

 

 

 

yes

 

I don't want to get into this whole thread but people do use these manner like those that I posted, there are times when it does matter--if you should ever need to deal with others that were raised this way, a situation where you need to have a formal dinner for a business and you are dealing with say someone from outside the us (JUST AN EXAMPLE) having certain manners can mean a deal breaker-others do reflect on manners IRL-some don't 

 

not getting into judgement here-just stating it does happen


Oh, I get that. I avoid situations where it matters like the plague. I'm just surprised that people actually find dining out by these "rules" to be an enjoyable experience, is all. Styles differ. If I do find myself in such a situation, I'll be very grateful when it's over.

 

post #151 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mamja View Post



 

In the same vein, I would imagine it's because nobody wants to think about your saliva, germs, food detritus, and yes, lipstick on the bread if you took a bite then put the rest down.
 

 



A lot of these "rules" date back to before anybody had a clue what germs even were, so I don't think it would be about that. But, seriously, if someone is going to think about another diner's saliva, germs, etc. being on that diner's own roll, I can't see how they could possibly enjoy dining with other people at all.

post #152 of 200


yea cuz isnt that a form of OCD?  shrug.gif
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post





A lot of these "rules" date back to before anybody had a clue what germs even were, so I don't think it would be about that. But, seriously, if someone is going to think about another diner's saliva, germs, etc. being on that diner's own roll, I can't see how they could possibly enjoy dining with other people at all.



 

post #153 of 200

Alright here's this about tearing your bread:

 

http://www.chow.com/food-news/54040/butter-me-up/

 

 

Quote:

The rule is meant to make sure you don’t look greedy. As Starr explains, “It’s for the same reason you shouldn’t gulp an entire glass of water or wine.” Roger Rice, restaurant manager at New York’s 21 Club, says: “If you butter your bread all at once, it’s like you’re making a sandwich. Bread is supposed to be an accompaniment to your meal.”

 

On a practical level, taking a bite out of a larger piece of bread can be messy: You could send baguette crumbs flying. If it’s rustic peasant bread, you might need to gnaw at it.

 

Yeah, but if it's rustic peasant bread you'll get dusty flour on your hands.  And I imagine tearing some kinds of breads would just send crumbs scattering.

 

 

This is where dh and I will celebrate our wedding anniversary day after tomorrow!   http://www.biba-restaurant.com/    I'll be thinking of this thread.  :D

post #154 of 200
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doraline Kae View Post

ROTFLMAO.gif

 

 

I think we are being etiquette punked, people.

 

Velochic, much applause for the fine performance art.clap.gif


What does "punked" mean?

 

post #155 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post




Oh, I get that. I avoid situations where it matters like the plague. I'm just surprised that people actually find dining out by these "rules" to be an enjoyable experience, is all. Styles differ. If I do find myself in such a situation, I'll be very grateful when it's over.

 


That's actually one of the reasons I do practice it with my kids (and have with kids where I was standing in loco parentis). The bread rule, where and how you put your napkin down, etc. don't bother me at all just 'cause I've done it long enough that the 'proper' way doesn't get in the way of my enjoyment of the meal.

 

I worked where I attended formal Chinese meals a few times and that never quite got comfortable; I'm not great with chopsticks and the slurping was something that was hard to get ok with. And I was struggling with some of the food, anyway.

 

Personally I don't care about the rules as rules. But I grew up where my parents only gave basic instruction, and then ended up in situations where I felt unprepared. A restaurant though has only rarely been where I've felt it; it's mostly been at sort of family events, or business ones.

post #156 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by velochic View Post




What does "punked" mean?

 


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=punked  smile.gif

 

 

 

post #157 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuildJenn View Post




That's actually one of the reasons I do practice it with my kids (and have with kids where I was standing in loco parentis). The bread rule, where and how you put your napkin down, etc. don't bother me at all just 'cause I've done it long enough that the 'proper' way doesn't get in the way of my enjoyment of the meal.

 

That wouldn't work with me. I actually did learn a lot of this stuff as a kid (my mom and dad figured it never hurt to know it), but I found it silly and stupid, and wanted no part of it (my parents didn't insist at all - they both grew up with stricter dinner etiquette, and they didn't like it, either). It's not really about the dinner etiquette. I find a lot of the "rules" we live by completely incomprehensible, and I'm really, really bad at just doing things because I'm "supposed" to, if nobody can give a good reason, yk? I'm sure it's a character defect of some kind, and it definitely doesn't make my life any easier, but it's the way my brain is wired.

 

I worked where I attended formal Chinese meals a few times and that never quite got comfortable; I'm not great with chopsticks and the slurping was something that was hard to get ok with. And I was struggling with some of the food, anyway.

 


The only time I've eaten authentic Chinese food, I almost gagged on every bite. It was a business lunch (and the venue was a source of great strife, for complicated reasons involving our particular office's politics), so I was as polite as possible...but I stopped and got food on my way home that day, because I was insanely hungry, and was also pregnant with dd1. I have no idea what it was about the food that caused me so much trouble, but I've avoided authentic Chinese, at least in restaurants, ever since. I can eat the Westernized stuff (although it give me a stomach ache, sometimes), and can eat some homecooked Chinese dishes, but I'm afraid of the restaurant food. This makes me a bit of a freak, in terms of the Vancouver population.

 

Oh - and I'm hopeless with chopsticks. I'm occasionally inspired to try them again, but I just can't seem to get them to work properly.

 

Personally I don't care about the rules as rules. But I grew up where my parents only gave basic instruction, and then ended up in situations where I felt unprepared. A restaurant though has only rarely been where I've felt it; it's mostly been at sort of family events, or business ones.

 

This is one of the many reasons why I kept my business life at barely above entry level. I just don't need the hassles.



ETA: To put this in the proper family perspective....my sister was still arguing about using forks, instead of fingers, at about age 10 or 11. Her reasoning? "Fingers taste better than forks." We just seem to be naturally...contrary. (I have to admit - she has a point. There's no rational reason for forks, in many cases. I've been known to ditch them, myself.)

post #158 of 200

This thread is a little scary.

 

I used to have a pretty good bead on what was acceptable at restaurants. My rules were specific to my DD and her personality. DD needed to stay in her seat or her half of the booth. No bouncing in a booth if the booth is attached to another. No tipping chairs. No yelling, screaming, or freaking out. Of course, a corollary to that rule was for us, don't take DD to a restaurant when she is tiered, cranky, or super hungry and likely to yell, scream, or freak out. Keep your food on your plate, don't make a huge mess. Use your silverware. Use your napkin. Use an inside voice. Don't talk about other people in the restaurant (at least until we are in the car.) You don't have to eat it if you don't like it. You can have something after we leave. Another corollary to the rule for us was to be sure to have crackers, pretzels or something in the diaper bag and/or be sure to order at least one thing that you know the kids will eat no matter what (hello french fries!) Please and thank you are encouraged. No bubbles through the straw. Don't touch every piece of bread in the basket.

 

I think you get the idea.

 

I do not worry about which fork to use, or how to eat soup, or what Mrs. Picky McPicky 4 tables over is thinking about my kids manners. If someone is offended that my kid put butter on the whole individual sized dinner roll, I really don't care.

 

Now that I have DS things are a little more complicated. He has Down syndrome. He is a pretty quite kid, but if he's excited, like when the server puts a plate of spaghetti in front of him, he might just let out a very loud squeal of delight. Sometimes it's just easier for him to use his hands after a few bites with a fork. When he's done, he's done and sitting in his seat gets hard so one of us ends up taking him for a walk. Chances are his shoes will end up on the floor at some point during the meal. He's been known to fast as lightning, crumple up his dinner roll, making a bit of a contained mess. I always wonder how all of these etiquette rules apply to him. Should he never be allowed in a restaurant because he might talk with his mouth full? None of these things are to big of an issue at the moment, he's only 3, but what if he's 6, or 9, or 12? I'm sure there of plenty of people that don't want to see anybody with Ds in public at all. Should I worry about offending these folks?

 

Of course, my kids, even at 3, even with special needs, would never be allowed to jump around in a booth, smearing BBQ sauce all over it and intruding into another table's experience. If for no other reason than safety, they will never be allowed to run around a restaurant, crowded or not. While they are little and sometimes loud, we don't go to quite, intimate restaurants.

 

I am grateful that I live near the beach, in a very touristy area where there are plenty of nice, fancy food, but casual atmosphere, family restaurants. No matter what night of the week we go out to dinner, there are sure to be adults attracting much more attention and being way more inappropriate than my kids.

 

For the record, I would never bring my little kids to The French Laundry or other restaurant of this caliber, because that type of experience deserves to be enjoyed. I'm not really enjoying myself if in between every bite I'm keeping on top of the kids and their needs. Plus I'm pretty sure every entree does not have the option of fries as a side dish and I bet there isn't a bottle of ketchup within 100 yards of that place. yummy.gif

 

post #159 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbbieB View Post

This thread is a little scary.

 

I used to have a pretty good bead on what was acceptable at restaurants. My rules were specific to my DD and her personality. DD needed to stay in her seat or her half of the booth. No bouncing in a booth if the booth is attached to another. No tipping chairs. No yelling, screaming, or freaking out. Of course, a corollary to that rule was for us, don't take DD to a restaurant when she is tiered, cranky, or super hungry and likely to yell, scream, or freak out. Keep your food on your plate, don't make a huge mess. Use your silverware. Use your napkin. Use an inside voice. Don't talk about other people in the restaurant (at least until we are in the car.) You don't have to eat it if you don't like it. You can have something after we leave. Another corollary to the rule for us was to be sure to have crackers, pretzels or something in the diaper bag and/or be sure to order at least one thing that you know the kids will eat no matter what (hello french fries!) Please and thank you are encouraged. No bubbles through the straw. Don't touch every piece of bread in the basket.

 

I think you get the idea.

 

I do not worry about which fork to use, or how to eat soup, or what Mrs. Picky McPicky 4 tables over is thinking about my kids manners. If someone is offended that my kid put butter on the whole individual sized dinner roll, I really don't care.

 

Now that I have DS things are a little more complicated. He has Down syndrome. He is a pretty quite kid, but if he's excited, like when the server puts a plate of spaghetti in front of him, he might just let out a very loud squeal of delight. Sometimes it's just easier for him to use his hands after a few bites with a fork. When he's done, he's done and sitting in his seat gets hard so one of us ends up taking him for a walk. Chances are his shoes will end up on the floor at some point during the meal. He's been known to fast as lightning, crumple up his dinner roll, making a bit of a contained mess. I always wonder how all of these etiquette rules apply to him. Should he never be allowed in a restaurant because he might talk with his mouth full? None of these things are to big of an issue at the moment, he's only 3, but what if he's 6, or 9, or 12? I'm sure there of plenty of people that don't want to see anybody with Ds in public at all. Should I worry about offending these folks?

 

Of course, my kids, even at 3, even with special needs, would never be allowed to jump around in a booth, smearing BBQ sauce all over it and intruding into another table's experience. If for no other reason than safety, they will never be allowed to run around a restaurant, crowded or not. While they are little and sometimes loud, we don't go to quite, intimate restaurants.

 

I am grateful that I live near the beach, in a very touristy area where there are plenty of nice, fancy food, but casual atmosphere, family restaurants. No matter what night of the week we go out to dinner, there are sure to be adults attracting much more attention and being way more inappropriate than my kids.

 

For the record, I would never bring my little kids to The French Laundry or other restaurant of this caliber, because that type of experience deserves to be enjoyed. I'm not really enjoying myself if in between every bite I'm keeping on top of the kids and their needs. Plus I'm pretty sure every entree does not have the option of fries as a side dish and I bet there isn't a bottle of ketchup within 100 yards of that place. yummy.gif

 



We recently ate in a restaurant where an adult woman was seated at the next table was not capable of sitting still. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say she had Tourette's syndrome. It was a bit  distracting and slightly uncomfortable, because she was bumping the seat.  I could tell my kids were curious, but they didn't stare. When one of the woman's tics caught DD's attention, they exchanged a smile/wave. Other than that it was pretty much like any other meal we've had out. Being accommodating or at the very least tolerant of other people's varying ability levels is part of having good manners. It seems like you've found a good balance between teaching manners and not having the meal turn into a chore for everyone at the table. Anyone who has a problem dining near your son should learn to mind their own manners before critiquing his!

post #160 of 200


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbbieB View Post

This thread is a little scary.

 

I used to have a pretty good bead on what was acceptable at restaurants. My rules were specific to my DD and her personality. DD needed to stay in her seat or her half of the booth. No bouncing in a booth if the booth is attached to another. No tipping chairs. No yelling, screaming, or freaking out. Of course, a corollary to that rule was for us, don't take DD to a restaurant when she is tiered, cranky, or super hungry and likely to yell, scream, or freak out. Keep your food on your plate, don't make a huge mess. Use your silverware. Use your napkin. Use an inside voice. Don't talk about other people in the restaurant (at least until we are in the car.) You don't have to eat it if you don't like it. You can have something after we leave. Another corollary to the rule for us was to be sure to have crackers, pretzels or something in the diaper bag and/or be sure to order at least one thing that you know the kids will eat no matter what (hello french fries!) Please and thank you are encouraged. No bubbles through the straw. Don't touch every piece of bread in the basket.

 

I think you get the idea.

 

I do not worry about which fork to use, or how to eat soup, or what Mrs. Picky McPicky 4 tables over is thinking about my kids manners. If someone is offended that my kid put butter on the whole individual sized dinner roll, I really don't care.

 

Now that I have DS things are a little more complicated. He has Down syndrome. He is a pretty quite kid, but if he's excited, like when the server puts a plate of spaghetti in front of him, he might just let out a very loud squeal of delight. Sometimes it's just easier for him to use his hands after a few bites with a fork. When he's done, he's done and sitting in his seat gets hard so one of us ends up taking him for a walk. Chances are his shoes will end up on the floor at some point during the meal. He's been known to fast as lightning, crumple up his dinner roll, making a bit of a contained mess. I always wonder how all of these etiquette rules apply to him. Should he never be allowed in a restaurant because he might talk with his mouth full? None of these things are to big of an issue at the moment, he's only 3, but what if he's 6, or 9, or 12? I'm sure there of plenty of people that don't want to see anybody with Ds in public at all. Should I worry about offending these folks?

 

Of course, my kids, even at 3, even with special needs, would never be allowed to jump around in a booth, smearing BBQ sauce all over it and intruding into another table's experience. If for no other reason than safety, they will never be allowed to run around a restaurant, crowded or not. While they are little and sometimes loud, we don't go to quite, intimate restaurants.

 

I am grateful that I live near the beach, in a very touristy area where there are plenty of nice, fancy food, but casual atmosphere, family restaurants. No matter what night of the week we go out to dinner, there are sure to be adults attracting much more attention and being way more inappropriate than my kids.

 

For the record, I would never bring my little kids to The French Laundry or other restaurant of this caliber, because that type of experience deserves to be enjoyed. I'm not really enjoying myself if in between every bite I'm keeping on top of the kids and their needs. Plus I'm pretty sure every entree does not have the option of fries as a side dish and I bet there isn't a bottle of ketchup within 100 yards of that place. yummy.gif

 

Having a special needs kiddo myself, I found myself nodding along to much of what you wrote. 

We don't eat out much. Our food budget is small, if we eat out it's because we're traveling, just moved (like right now!) or some other event. We try to keep the kids in their seats. We try to keep them quiet. I bring toys to keep them occupied. But my son, having an autism spectrum disorder, often lets out loud, infant like squeals. He hops up and down as we walk to our seats. He flaps his hands with excitement every few minutes. If it's loud he covers his ears and cries (I hope every time we go out that is is not someone's birthday near us!) I do everything I can, but sometimes something slips out because he's four and he's special. Children are part of society. People with disabilities are part of society. They deserve to eat, too, and sometimes, it happens in restaurants. We don't go anywhere that serves expensive meals. I could not afford it if I wanted to (and trust me, my family works very, very hard ) but if by some odd chance we ended up in a place where you were expected to use a certain fork at a certain time, I'd just be happy if he used it and wasn't licking the table. That's life. I could totally see my son acting like that little boy the OP described. He has no understanding of personal space. I would step in, but he does not get it. I'd probably trade him places or something so he would hopefully be distracted, but I may watch it for a minute to see where it was going at first. There's a hard balance in teaching him social norms and not crushing his self esteem. so I like to try and watch the person's reaction before I decide how to proceed with him. Some people don't seem to mind indulging his odd behaviors for a few minutes, so I let it go, others are obviously bothered and I work at redirection faster. 
 

 

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