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Children, parents, restaurants, manners, etiquette... - Page 4

post #61 of 200

 

We only have one rule: We don't disturb the other patrons trying to enjoy their meals.

 

That's it.  And, we go out of our way in some situations as to snatch the earliest reservation or choose to dine al fresco when feasible, because I am aware that even seeing a child at a fine dining establishment in the evening makes some people uncomfortable.  So, we'll do our best to keep everything cool.  But, we still want our favorite steak frites or smoked trout!  And, we love dining with DD.  To each their own.

 

That is manners.  Etiquette is my husband's thing.  He was raised by one very uppity Brit.  Short of making a fool of myself, I don't care about that.  I don't scan the room searching for fauxpas.  And, I try my best to mind my own business and not let someones else's bad dining experience affect my own.

post #62 of 200

Manners are manners.  You act polite no matter if you're at McDonald's or TFL.  If you're judging someone who used the wrong spoon or ate Continental style I would be inclined to say that you're the one with no manners.

post #63 of 200

Spoon the soup away from yourself:  Why?  

 

 

post #64 of 200
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honey693 View Post

Manners are manners.  You act polite no matter if you're at McDonald's or TFL.  If you're judging someone who used the wrong spoon or ate Continental style I would be inclined to say that you're the one with no manners.



Ah, but therein lies the rub.  Some of these nuances aren't manners... they're etiquette. There are those who need to know and often use the rules of etiquette in different situations (and in State situations you have another set of rules called "protocol") and those who will never need them.  It's neither bad or good, just different.  But to teach these rules of etiquette isn't a bad thing, IMO, nor is it judgmental.  It just is what it is.  Some may use them, others not.  I would say using the wrong spoon is an example of dining etiquette, not manners.

 

I found myself in a situation when I was barely an adult where I was having lunch with the future Vice President of the United States.  Had I not had any knowledge of proper etiquette, I would absolutely NOT have been able to enjoy the meal. However, I felt comfortable and confident, and did enjoy the meal, the discussion, and the environment.  It's a fond memory I have. Do I use those rules on a daily basis??  Hell no.  But there is a difference between manners and etiquette.  And good or bad, dining etiquette, where it matters, actually matters.  I don't have a problem with it at all, and actually like some of the finer points of formality.  Those that do have a problem with it will probably not put themselves in those situations, and that's cool too.  To each his own.

 

As many have said before, though... there needs to be at least a minimum requirement of manners (by children and adults alike) to not disrupt the other diners.

post #65 of 200
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by journeymom View Post

Spoon the soup away from yourself:  Why?  


So as to not splash it on oneself.  Likewise, tip the soup bowl away from oneself to get the last bit... same reason.  This is so esoteric, I think that it's probably not followed unless in formal State dinners and at the most high end restaurants in the world.  It's just one of those points that *can* be taught and may be used at some point in the future, so what's the harm in teaching it?  Daily use... nope... if you need it... nice to know.

 

post #66 of 200

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Honey693 View Post

Manners are manners.  You act polite no matter if you're at McDonald's or TFL.  If you're judging someone who used the wrong spoon or ate Continental style I would be inclined to say that you're the one with no manners.

 

 

Yes.

 

While I can appreciate velochic's passion in this thread, I certainly hope she's not staring at the patrons to ascertain and judge their level of manners and/or etiquette. Because, that would be abominable in the manners department.   I absolutely detest staring.



I have impeccable dining decorum, but I don't trouble myself with how other people conduct themselves in the eatery, my focus is on my meal and my family.  eat.gif 

post #67 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by velochic View Post




So as to not splash it on oneself.  Likewise, tip the soup bowl away from oneself to get the last bit... same reason.  This is so esoteric, I think that it's probably not followed unless in formal State dinners and at the most high end restaurants in the world.  It's just one of those points that *can* be taught and may be used at some point in the future, so what's the harm in teaching it?  Daily use... nope... if you need it... nice to know.

 




I don't partake in soup.  It's too loud, no matter how careful one is. lol.gif 

 

post #68 of 200

 

 

It is  pretentious and  gauche to brag about wealth and etiquette. 

 

 

 

Warn me all you want.   The above still stands.


Edited by Anirbas - 8/26/11 at 10:40am
post #69 of 200

I just popped in to see more of this post and holy wow - I completely agree with the above poster

 

 

post #70 of 200

 

 

The classiest person I have ever known was a homeless woman with metal illness who ate left over McDonald's fries from the dumpster.  She shared her food with anyone who was hungry.  She used the spare change people gave her to buy canned food to feed stray cats.  She had PSTD fighting in the resistance in WWII.  She helped hide Jews (including my husband's great aunt) during the War.  She never had a cruel thing to say about anyone.  She had a smile for the world and never whined or complained.  I'm pretty sure she had no idea what fork to use toward the end of her life, but she never would have ever made another person feel bad about using the wrong fork.  People with grace and class never need to point it out to others.

 

P.S. I use to eat lunch with an US senator every day in second and third grade.  He chewed with his mouth full and ate his own boogers. luckily I was able to enjoy the experience because of my natural sense of etiquette.  I also peed in his parent's pool a few times at his birthday party.

 

post #71 of 200

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by velochic View Post

I'm sure you know where this is going.  This has, I'm sure, been discussed before, but I can't find old threads (heck, I can't find anything here anymore!).  I hope to keep this civil.

 

I'm wondering about dining out and what is expected, not just from the children, but the parents, as well, in different situations.  I'm speaking specifically of different types of sit-down restaurants.  From the one-step-up-from-fast-food places like Outback Steakhouse and Red Lobster to the fine dining restaurants that have a tasting menu and wine pairings that are $250/person.  What should the expectation of manners from children of various ages be in these places?  Beyond manners, I think that there is a set of dining etiquette rules that is necessary for these different situations and I wonder what kids are, in general, being taught these days.  I'm also thinking of what parents are or are not doing in various situations where parenting *needs* to take place because of disruption.

 

Had an interesting experience last night and it got me thinking about this again.

headscratch.gif I didn't realize Outback and Red Lobster were so beyond the pale... I can't imagine wasting that kind of money for a meal and then having to worry about being hoity toity on top of it! A person can't even ENJOY a $250 meal at that rate. (Just my unrefined opinion, of course.) If I'm spending the money to eat out I want to be able to get a little bit buzzed and eat some unhealthy appetizers and I surely don't want to drag my four children along with me. lol.gif

 

 

post #72 of 200

Oh, Red Lobster..Cheddar bay biscuits. So bad yet so good. 

post #73 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommariffic View Post

Oh, Red Lobster..Cheddar bay biscuits. So bad yet so good. 



drool.gif

post #74 of 200


 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakeeffectsnow View Post

 

 

The classiest person I have ever known was a homeless woman with metal illness who ate left over McDonald's fries from the dumpster.  She shared her food with anyone who was hungry.  She used the spare change people gave her to buy canned food to feed stray cats.  She had PSTD fighting in the resistance in WWII.  She helped hide Jews (including my husband's great aunt) during the War.  She never had a cruel thing to say about anyone.  She had a smile for the world and never whined or complained.  I'm pretty sure she had no idea what fork to use toward the end of her life, but she never would have ever made another person feel bad about using the wrong fork.  People with grace and class never need to point it out to others.

 

P.S. I use to eat lunch with an US senator every day in second and third grade.  He chewed with his mouth full and ate his own boogers. luckily I was able to enjoy the experience because of my natural sense of etiquette.  I also peed in his parent's pool a few times at his birthday party.

 


Did he put them on a plate and pierce them with the tines of his fine silver fork? 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm just forking with you lol.

 

post #75 of 200
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anirbas View Post

OP - you are a snob.

 

It is  pretentious and  gauche to brag about wealth and etiquette. 



Wealth has nothing to do with etiquette.  Neither do manners. I guess that's what's getting lost.

post #76 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by velochic View Post





Wealth has nothing to do with etiquette.  Neither do manners. I guess that's what's getting lost.


Perhaps not, but this thread has everything to do with your wealth.  And that's pretty poor manners.

 

post #77 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by velochic View Post





Wealth has nothing to do with etiquette.  Neither do manners. I guess that's what's getting lost.


Then why is the op FULL of how much you spend on your meals???eat.gif

 

post #78 of 200

Velochic, what does all of your talk about napkins, soup and vice presidents have to do with the example family you described? The parents and their sauce-flinging 8 y.o.?  I do believe everyone here knows the difference between etiquette and manners.  Honestly it seems like you are the one mixing the two together.

post #79 of 200

We take our 2yr old DD out to restaurants quite often and have since she was 1 week old.

We expect her to sit in her seat. Sometimes we allow her to sit on our lap while we are waiting for the food.

We sometimes bring a toy or something for her to play with and almost always bring her some food to have too while we wait for our food to come. And also to make sure she has something to eat because she has food intolerences and is two...so sometimes she decides she doesn't like something she happily ate the day before.

We try to keep the mess down by not allowing her to throw food and such. But she is 2 and needs to feed herself, so it is often messy. We clean up some and leave a nice tip.

We expect her to not shout, we do not let her wander around, we try to limit her staring at other diners. We do not let her stand in the booth and look over it at people.

I find it more difficult to train other people to not try to make small talk with her. She doesn't like it and we are not into it ourselves.

 

We have not taken her to any fine dining establishments yet. She wouldn't enjoy the length of the meal and we wouldn't enjoy having to spend all of our energy keeping her happy.

 

 

post #80 of 200

I was brought up to be able to comfortably attend very formal events.  I was coached in how to both attend and serve at something along the lines of a State dinner.  It  wasn't ever something that was made into a big deal, it simply was the expectation. When you are raised internationally and within certain circles, it's unavoidable, I suppose. I suppose, however, the greatest focus of my early exposure to those situations was that it is always of paramount importance to make the people you are with feel comfortable and at ease.  It was emphasized that if I noted a mistake someone made, I should never make mention of it, and simply pretend it hadn't happened.  

 

In my current life?  Hand me the finger food and a nice picnic with friends outside where kids can play over a formal dinner any day.  I like low-key, and more than that, I like being able to focus more on the interactions of the people I share a meal with than whether or not they know to use the correct fork. 

 

As for my children, well the little ones wouldn't be taken to anything more than a casual family restaurant.  At two and three, they are simply NOT  there yet. My oldest, while having exceptional manners, is soon to be exposed to new settings where she can practice those skills.  I purposefully waited long enough that she won't be so concrete and outspoken if she did notice someone not following "the rules".  I want her to be comfortable in a variety of settings, but mostly, I want her to learn to be an open and accepting person who will be able to help other people be at ease. 

 

 

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