My Birth Story - Tyson Noah - Page 2

[MeesterMama]

Prayers for your son.

Edited by MeesterMama - 8/23/11 at 7:51am

[IwannaBanRN]

Originally Posted by rainbow_mandala 

Umm, you clearly are not aware of how much most of us educate ourselves, but horror stories rarely prove useful.  Education is not necessarily about instilling fear and then having to figure out what to do if you were in the same situation.  This is certainly one way of going about it, but a more effective way is to learn about the different facets of breech births and how to approach them.  Fear does not have to predicate educated, empowered awareness and choice.  In fact, when we come from a place of allowance, it is easier to see other methods of going about special birth issues (like breech) than if you were to approach from simply the fear mentality.

Agreed. Aren't fear tactics what stear us away from birthing in a hospital anyway? So why do it with something that is supposed to be the most natural route to go?

[stik]

Dislodging a stuck breech baby is a complicated, difficult, and painful obstetric maneuver. It sounds like that is possibly what the EMT did. It really doesn't matter if the op had been aware of it in advance or not. You can't perform obstetric maneuvers on yourself. I don't know what emergency dispatch suggested, but it sounds like they tried to walk her dh through it.

Vaginal delivery of a footling breech baby is incredibly risky. Unlike with some other complications, there is not a simple way to resolve the situation. The OP's situation sounds painful and heart-wrenching. Playing Monday-morning quarterback is one way to try to defuse the fear surrounding a possibility. But no matter how many books you have read, if your baby presents feet first, death or serious complications are likely. This situation could not have been resolved by a more thorough reading of Emergency Childbirth.

To the op, I hope your son continues to improve and your family is reunited soon.

[MeesterMama]

It sounds like she just came here to fear monger. Never posted before the birth story?? And it seems there are a lot of non UCers who came to comment on this as well to do more fear mongering.

Edited by MeesterMama - 8/23/11 at 7:59am

[stik]

I'm inclined to give posters the benefit of the doubt until they ask for donations.

In any case, her description of the complications that result from footling breech during a UC is spot on. In a hospital, staff would prep for a section the second they saw a foot, but you could well still end up with complications if the cord was compressed by the baby's position. There was a story a while back about a woman who had a footling breech and could do nothing but watch helplessly until the feet stopped moving.

Skepticism shouldn't be an excuse for social aggression. Queen Bee/"shouldn't you have known better" stuff really hurts people.

[Cynthia Mosher]

This

makes you look like an uncaring idiot

is veiled namecalling. Please edit to remove that and keep your post polite and respectful.

This is a birth story posted in UC. Per our stated guidelines:

The Unassisted Childbirth (UC) board is a forum of support, respectful requests for information and sharing of ideas and experiences. While we will not restrict discussions only to those who birth without professional attendants, we will actively discourage individuals from posting with no sincere interest in exploring UC. Proselytizing against UC will not be permitted. Controversial subjects of discussion related to UC can be found elsewhere on the internet, and we invite you to seek out other venues for that purpose.

While we wish to support women throughout the birthing process, we cannot host threads seeking advice during unassisted labor. Labor announcement threads are fine, but any posts seeking advice will be removed. We encourage you to share your birth narrative afterwards in MDC's Birth Stories subforum.

I am moving this to the Birth Stories where it can be posted to in a more neutral atmosphere. Let's please focus posting on support for klamp and her family. 

[IwannaBanRN]

Originally Posted by PhoenixMommaToTwo 

Well, if you were trying NOT to be rude, you clearly failed. In her initial post she describes her partner trying to help dislodge the baby, not that that matters any. He's not a healthcare professional, neither is she. THAT is why there are health care professionals, to help in cases like this. Criticising a woman who nearly lost their child in childbirth and then lost them afterward to CPS is bad form and makes you look like an uncaring idiot. And then to offer your "prayers" after such a rude and blaming post, is worse. I'm sure that's all this woman needs is hear how you think she's an uneducated idiot who caused her baby's trauma. Really. It's awesome that you're so "helpful". Also, before you claim to be so educated, you might want to look up how to spell "manual". HTH!

When a woman chooses UC, she is taking responsibility of her child's life, instead of putting it in the life of a healthcare professional. That being said, it's the mother and father's responsibility to educate themselves about the birthing process.

[rainbow_mandala]

Originally Posted by stik 

Dislodging a stuck breech baby is a complicated, difficult, and painful obstetric maneuver. It sounds like that is possibly what the EMT did. It really doesn't matter if the op had been aware of it in advance or not. You can't perform obstetric maneuvers on yourself. I don't know what emergency dispatch suggested, but it sounds like they tried to walk her dh through it.

Vaginal delivery of a footling breech baby is incredibly risky. Unlike with some other complications, there is not a simple way to resolve the situation. The OP's situation sounds painful and heart-wrenching. Playing Monday-morning quarterback is one way to try to defuse the fear surrounding a possibility. But no matter how many books you have read, if your baby presents feet first, death or serious complications are likely. This situation could not have been resolved by a more thorough reading of Emergency Childbirth.

To the op, I hope your son continues to improve and your family is reunited soon.

I bolded that particular sentence because there seems to be a general mentality that there is a limit to what natural, hands-off childbirth can offer.  And, yes, I do mean "offer".  There is a pervading fear that if a laboring woman finds herself in a sticky situation then she needs to have others come to her rescue.  Thus, the need to be in a hospital or to at least have a midwife or paramedics nearby, is the only truly safe scenario.  As long as we're trapped in this mentality, we haven't gotten out of the fear-based Western medicine mindset.  It's okay if you don't have a desire to fully step out of that mindset, but, when it comes to UC in particular, I feel there needs to be--otherwise, the situation could turn out to be very dangerous, like the OP's birth story illustrates.  So what does it mean to fully step out of this fear-based mindset?  It's to allow what is happening.  Yes, it really is as simple as that.  That doesn't mean "do nothing".  The state of allowing is a very charged expansive energy that moves through a laboring woman's body, giving her the power and impetus to do what she needs to do to help her baby be born.  This could look differently depending on many factors, so if the laboring woman and whoever is there with her (health professional or layperson) is trying to do things according to textbook this often leaves to trauma and complications that probably would have not occurred otherwise.  What if the OP had been feeling fully relaxed and confident, even when her baby's feet appeared?  She says she didn't panic until the lower half of his body was out, a little above his belly button.  That pivotal moment when she went from calm and confident to a state of extreme fear is where it all went downhill.  It will never be known if it all would have unfolded in the same way if she hadn't panicked, and I'm certainly not judging her for it at all, but I have a feeling that things would have gone much differently if she had stayed in a state of allowing.  From the stories I've read along with many midwife's accounts on breech birth, it is possible for there to be very little intervention for a healthy entrance into the world.  Very little force is needed when the body is allowed to do what it needs to do.  For example, the cervix has a tendency of clamping shut when a breech baby is half born--not because the baby is breech but because the mother is now afraid.  It's a natural biologic response to fear.  Thus, this makes it difficult, if not impossible, for the baby to turn and move lower and the arms often become stuck as well.  There's so much resistance on the mother's part because she's fearing for her baby's life that it's as if everything becomes standstill.  The only way out is to have others "assist"--pull, turn, reach up inside of her and do everything possible to get the baby out.  I don't feel this is the only way to go about it (or a c-section), but that's difficult to "prove" when the reality is, the only way to know for certain is to be in a state of allowing.

[MeesterMama]

Originally Posted by IwannaBanRN 

When a woman chooses UC, she is taking responsibility of her child's life, instead of putting it in the life of a healthcare professional. That being said, it's the mother and father's responsibility to educate themselves about the birthing process.

Thank you, you put it in better words than I can.

[stik]

IMO, saying that the OP should have been more educated, or should have not panicked is also not helpful at this point.  How the OP's birth could have been changed might be a useful discussion if this were some kind of seminar, but it's not - it's a story in the Birth Stories forum.  

I'm all for education and a calm approach to the birthing process. This baby is here now.  

Welcome to the world Tyson Noah!  I'm sorry you had such a rough start.  

[IwannaBanRN]

Originally Posted by stik 

IMO, saying that the OP should have been more educated, or should have not panicked is also not helpful at this point.  How the OP's birth could have been changed might be a useful discussion if this were some kind of seminar, but it's not - it's a story in the Birth Stories forum.  

I'm all for education and a calm approach to the birthing process. This baby is here now.  

Welcome to the world Tyson Noah!  I'm sorry you had such a rough start.  

Well, I've certainly learned from her terrifying experience. I can't say that I would have kept it together myself, but this also means more research on maneuvers for UC breech birthing will be done on mine and my DH's part. If I discovered I had a footling breech, I'd probably call EMT's to stand by. I hope Tyson makes a full recovery, for sure.
 

[Cynthia Mosher]

I posted above: 

Let's please focus posting on support for klamp and her family. 

Since that is not being done and the posting is still circling in debate and argument I am closing this and issuing warnings.