Serious Gallbladder trouble, what to do next?

[lilmom]

For the past several days I have been having major GB drama. It is hot to the touch, tender, and off and on extremely painful. I have almost no appetite. When I do eat, sometimes I throw it back up. The rest of the time, I just feel quite nauseous and miserable, as if my food is right in my throat (indigestion, I guess). This all got so severe on Friday, and I was also very, very dizzy, to the point that I could hardly walk straight. I also (sorry TMI) started passing what looks like possibly undigested fat with my BMs. I called my DH and had him take me to the ER. I am a very natural minded person and not a fan of Western Meds.

Background info before I go on: Had this same trouble when I was pregnant with DS 4 yrs ago, toward the end of the pregnancy. After he was born, I had bloodwork, ultrasound, and a HIDA scan. All of which came back normal. No stones visible, no poor functioning of the GB. I was told I could have it taken out if I wanted to, but technically it was fine. I chose to keep it and try to do my best to heal it naturally, not wanting to have surgery with a newborn (or at all). After a couple of weeks, it all passed. No more troubles. I had no attacks really, for 3 yrs. Then back in January, had a pretty bad attack. I did the castor oil packs, and it wasn't helping me. I got some chinese herbs that were for helping get rid of stones, in the hopes it would help. And it did. Fast forward to now..8 months later it's back with a vengeance.

Now, this attack has had more symptoms than the other 2 times I have dealt with this problem. The nausea, dizziness, and digestive issues are new. Before it was just the pain.

So, we went to the ER, and got horrible treatment there. Basically was told that they could give me pain meds but would not re-run any tests I had done FOUR years ago because there was no reason to believe the outcome would be different. (Yes I am filing a complaint). I went there out of desperation and got no help.

Here is my question if anyone is still with me. Tomorrow I plan on seeing my family doc and probably having an ultrasound. IF that shows no stones again, what should I do? Is there any chance I can still keep this GB? Or am I just past the point of keeping it and I need to get rid of it? I know that is not a great solution but I am just really suffering here. I eat a healthy diet, and I limit my toxins as much as possible, and have been doing that for 5 years now, but clearly this problem has progressed despite that. i really prefer not to have the HIDA scan. But I don't know what to do.

Has anyone else ever had GB problems but no obvious stones or ill functioning? I just hate the thought of surgery if it can be saved, yet, I am really torn because I can't stand the illness either. Chiro and acupuncture haven't helped me..diet hasn't helped..I'm just not sure what else I could do while it is already this diseased. Dh thinks I should have it out, even if they don't find stones. I guess I could also try the chinese herbs again..however it's clear this problem keeps coming back.

[CarrieMF]

Even if there are no stones it does not mean it isn't sick & not functioning properly.  You need to have bloodwork done.

Most likely, yeah it needs to come out.  You've tried natural methods & it has only temporarily worked & each time worked for less time.  It is like putting a bandaid on a cut that needs stitches. sure it may stop the bleeding, but it isn't fixing it.

Hot to the touch & tender is not good.  That is more indicative of an inflamed gallbladder than necessarily having gallstones.  If left it can cause problems with your liver too.

[lilmom]

Thanks for replying!

I did have bloodwork done. It was all normal.

I also had an ultrasound today, no gallstones. They checked my kidneys and everything just in case as well and everything looked good.

So frustrating. Next up is the HIDA scan to see if it is functioning properly. Then if that is normal, the doc will send me a gastroenterologist, probably to get a scope. Not fun.

I am making peace in my mind that this thing has to come out. Like you said, it's getting worse, not better, despite all my best efforts.

[CarrieMF]

Have you had blood work done since it was done 4 years ago>  If not that needs to be redone.

It could be an ulcer too.  

[Cupressa]

If it were me, I would definitely see a holistic practitioner before having it removed.

If it is infected, maybe antibiotics could take care of that and buy you some time to treat it holistically and find the underlying cause(s).

Your gallbladder is very valuable. Without it, you can't concentrate your bile for fat emulsification, and fat digestion will be compromised, which can lead to essential fatty acid deficiency. 

What about your liver? How is it functioning? Have you had a lot of exposure to toxins, pharmaceuticals, hormone replacement or other chemicals your liver needed to process? Maybe you could support your liver and improve the quality of the bile, in case something in it contributes to the inflammation. High quality fats help the production of healthy bile, and bitters and other nutrients help the liver process toxins efficiently. I like http://tuberose.com/Liver_Detoxification.html for information on the liver.

If those Chinese herbs helped, maybe you should continue to take them. You might take them for 3 weeks and then take a week off until you are sure your gallbladder is robust. Some of us do have those weak areas that may need long-term support. I think it is worth the effort to provide the support, rather than remove the organ in question (in most cases).

I hope you feel better soon!

[lilmom]

Carrie- Yes I had the bloodwork done on Friday and everything was normal. Scan is now scheduled for Thurs AM

Cupressa- I have done so much over the past 4 yrs to support my liver, and my whole system, so the fact that this is happening, is very disappointing to me, but I feel in my gut that maybe it is just time to take it out. I have done liver cleansing, eaten healthy fats, etc. I just think it is wrecked,  maybe to the point of no return. The chinese herbs I took in the past did help, however, they are very strong and are to be used once a year. This is my second major attack in a year, and this time it hasn't subsided and my symptoms have become much worse than the last time. I hate to say it, but I think it needs to come out. I will take a look at your link though, in case I have missed something. Thanks!

[Cupressa]

Originally Posted by lilmom 

Cupressa- I have done so much over the past 4 yrs to support my liver, and my whole system, so the fact that this is happening, is very disappointing to me, but I feel in my gut that maybe it is just time to take it out. I have done liver cleansing, eaten healthy fats, etc. I just think it is wrecked,  maybe to the point of no return. The chinese herbs I took in the past did help, however, they are very strong and are to be used once a year. This is my second major attack in a year, and this time it hasn't subsided and my symptoms have become much worse than the last time. I hate to say it, but I think it needs to come out. I will take a look at your link though, in case I have missed something. Thanks!

I understand what you are saying. You certainly need to follow your intuition. I did want to show you this: http://www.sensiblehealth.com/

though.

These Chinese herbal products really helped me. I used the gallbladder flush pack last time, but before that I used the Chinese bitters only. You can use them on the schedule I mentioned previously.  
 

[BellinghamCrunchie]

I had no stones on ultrasound, nausea, pain and all the rest. Did acupuncture, chinese herbs, liver support, had an endoscopy, HIDA, two different naturopaths, all the stuff mentioned here and finally had it removed. The surgeon said there was a ton of scar tissue and infection, "sand" that wouldn't show up on the ultrasound but was causing on/off problems, and if I hadn't had it removed, I would have probably ended up in ICU with problems with my pancreas. I really, really tried to heal it naturally, first. It kinda sounds to me like you are at the point where it needs to come out.

[lilmom]

Originally Posted by BellinghamCrunchie 

I had no stones on ultrasound, nausea, pain and all the rest. Did acupuncture, chinese herbs, liver support, had an endoscopy, HIDA, two different naturopaths, all the stuff mentioned here and finally had it removed. The surgeon said there was a ton of scar tissue and infection, "sand" that wouldn't show up on the ultrasound but was causing on/off problems, and if I hadn't had it removed, I would have probably ended up in ICU with problems with my pancreas. I really, really tried to heal it naturally, first. It kinda sounds to me like you are at the point where it needs to come out.

Thanks for your input! I really think I am at that point too. I can only hold down very bland food..it's just bad. I should get the results of my HIDA on Monday. I will say, it took a very, very long time for my gallbladder to even show up on the scan. So, I think that is a bad sign. The techs were worried it was never going to show up and were talking about atrophied gallbladders and serious stones possibly blocking the duct. However, it did show up eventually. I just feel like I have done all I can do naturally, and with a preschooler, I just am not able to not be able to eat anything and be this sick all the time. I am feeling in my gut that if they took it out, it would be pretty wrecked. Even if the HIDA comes out "normal". I don't mean to sound like I have entirely given up on a cause that is VERY worthwhile, I just think my body is telling me I need it out before it starts affecting my liver and pancreas..but we will see what the results of the HIDA are and I might do the scope too..I don't know. My body is screaming at me pretty loud.

[SandyMom]

I just wanted to add that I know so many ppl who have had gallbladder troubles (including my husband and mother) and all have had varying degrees of success w/ natural approaches. Mostly they seem to have bought some time. While I do agree w/ pp that the gallbladder serves important functions everyone I know who has had theirs removed has later said they feel so much better and that their health improved drastically afterward. Note that all of these folks were quite ill beforehand. 

Another common thing I've heard from gb sufferers is that when it's time for it to come out you "just know."

Good luck, Mama!

[lilmom]

Originally Posted by SandyMom 

I just wanted to add that I know so many ppl who have had gallbladder troubles (including my husband and mother) and all have had varying degrees of success w/ natural approaches. Mostly they seem to have bought some time. While I do agree w/ pp that the gallbladder serves important functions everyone I know who has had theirs removed has later said they feel so much better and that their health improved drastically afterward. Note that all of these folks were quite ill beforehand. 

Another common thing I've heard from gb sufferers is that when it's time for it to come out you "just know."

Good luck, Mama!

Thanks Sandy! I got results today..87% EF..which is on the high side. I think I am dumping bile too quickly. Next stop, the gastroenterologist, since my doc does not believe this is too high. However, after alot of internet research I have found that most people dumping bile that quickly are quite ill, and their intestine is inflamed and having trouble absorbing nutrients. They can get their colon back in order, but the GB still has to come out, because there is no way to reverse it from dumping bile super fast. So...that's where I am at. I still think I need it out. I am so sick. I just cannot even function in a  normal way at this point. If I stand up, I basically want to vomit..if I eat, it hurts miserably. I force myself to get up and not to throw up, but I have to lay down several times a day. It's not fair to my little boy..and I can't keep living like this..not eating..or eating very little. Anything acidic especially is bad..so even fruits and veggies are hard and I can't tolerate any meat whatsoever. I guess the other possibility is celiac disease but I went gluten free for quite a while, several months, hoping it would help my GB and health in general and it did not change a thing for me..that was last year..so I added a few gluten containing things back in and didn't see any negative changes..so I kind of doubt that is my issue. Anyway, wish me luck ladies. I hope I can get some relief soon. I want my life back, and my next mission is going to be getting  in tip top shape if I can get this misery behind me. I thought I was doing that before, but apparently it hasn't worked.. : (
 

[babygirlie]

WHY do you think there is something wrong with your gallbladder? Nothing you said leads me to believe it's not working. All a gallbladder does is store EXTRA bile and it does nothing else. A gallbladder attack does not feel like nausea or dizziness per se. it feels like you were shot and would rather pull your brains out with a dull fork than to go through anything else. It has been refered to as worse than child birth. It is not heat/cold sensitive. It HURTS. Trust me if you were passing a stone you sure as heck would know!  I had 8 stones and had mine removed at 15.

You also don't get acid reflux from it. I think you need to do more research. Nausea dizziness... maybe you need to do a food intolerance test. That sounds like a milk allergy.

I wouldn't have surgery and am a little surprised they are allowing you to have elective surgery on something that tests come back negative for.

BTW, I also had IBS symptoms before AND after my surgery. I was so dissapointed it wasn't resolved but I at least wasn't passing stones.. but kept on being miserable (plus there is no bile in your tummy so it makes throwing up weird as you just dry heave).  Ends up I have intolereances to many foods.. including eggwhites. Really nauseas after eating scrambled eggs but I just thought I didn't like them.  I noticed I have severe migraines after eating smoked foods. I can eat ice cream but if I have cold cereal with milk I blow up like a balloon and get very nauseas dizzy. So bad I can't literally walk.

But believe me you wouldn't be able to get to a hospital when you are passing a stone unless you had a hero to carry you to the car while you were screaming. The pain is so horrendous.. Dare I say it's worse the celiac disease... which I also have and I cry to God when I get one tiny smidgeon in me by accident. When I passed a stone I looked like something from the exorcist.. sweating, crying writhing shaking and screaming in bed unable to think at all. Extra bile does serve it's purpose but if it makes you feel better go ahead remove it. They cut 4 holes into you (one for the camera, 1 for the tongs to yank your liver out of the way, one for the soldering iron thing, and a hole through your belly button to pull it out) and it's about a 3 day hospital stay... though I couldn't get dressed on day 3 and was NOT ready to leave at all. But I really don't think this is your problem.

dizziness can also be a bladder infection. pain under your ribs could be a kidney infection/stones or a pulled muscle (something I'm dealing with now).

[BellinghamCrunchie]

I had a great deal of nausea with my gallbladder and could hardly eat. I lost 40 pounds. I had pain, but I wouldn't describe it as anywhere near as intense as childbirth. I didn't have large stones, just "sand" which didn't show up on the ultrasound. When they took out my gallbladder, they also checked to make sure the tubes were clear by injecting a radioactive fluid in and taking pictures. The fluid wouldn't go through and they had to suction the sand out to get the tubes clear. So I had been passing tiny stones for quite a while; but did not have agonizing pain. Just pain.

[lilmom]

I do not believe I have stones. I believe I have a diseased gallbladder. And the pain sometimes IS extremely intense. I believe it is my gb because the location of the intense pain is also in the exact location of the gb. It is hot to the touch and tender, which indicates it is probably very inflamed or possibly infected. Actually, nausea and dizziness can go right along with gallbladder problems. You do not have to have huge stones to have an issue with your gb. I am very sorry you had to go through the stones though. I also just feel intuitively, that the gb is most likely the problem. My symptoms are very classic for gallbladder disease, and that's what I think I have.

BUT I am not having surgery right now. I am going to the gastroenterologist to have more tests done and make sure of what is going on.

They did check my kidneys as well and I do not have stones there. I do understand food allergies, and migraines. I get migraines from pork and mushrooms, and too much soy. I drink almond milk, not dairy milk. So I doubt it is a milk allergy but I will be sure to get that checked out if I can't get any answers from the gastro guy. Also, I promise you, this is not a bladder infection. They have checked my urine repeatedly, and i have had one before so I would know if that was the problem.

Anyway, what I stated before was my THEORY of what I think is happening. I really do get it that this surgery is a big deal. I have been trying to avoid it for four years now..and I am in so much pain and misery at this point, surgery sounds good if it will help at all. I am planning an "elective" surgery. I will have the surgery if I need it. If it turns out something else is wrong, and I don't have to have surgery, that will be fantastic. I just want to get my life and my health back.
 

Originally Posted by babygirlie 

WHY do you think there is something wrong with your gallbladder? Nothing you said leads me to believe it's not working. All a gallbladder does is store EXTRA bile and it does nothing else. A gallbladder attack does not feel like nausea or dizziness per se. it feels like you were shot and would rather pull your brains out with a dull fork than to go through anything else. It has been refered to as worse than child birth. It is not heat/cold sensitive. It HURTS. Trust me if you were passing a stone you sure as heck would know!  I had 8 stones and had mine removed at 15.

You also don't get acid reflux from it. I think you need to do more research. Nausea dizziness... maybe you need to do a food intolerance test. That sounds like a milk allergy.

I wouldn't have surgery and am a little surprised they are allowing you to have elective surgery on something that tests come back negative for.

BTW, I also had IBS symptoms before AND after my surgery. I was so dissapointed it wasn't resolved but I at least wasn't passing stones.. but kept on being miserable (plus there is no bile in your tummy so it makes throwing up weird as you just dry heave).  Ends up I have intolereances to many foods.. including eggwhites. Really nauseas after eating scrambled eggs but I just thought I didn't like them.  I noticed I have severe migraines after eating smoked foods. I can eat ice cream but if I have cold cereal with milk I blow up like a balloon and get very nauseas dizzy. So bad I can't literally walk.

But believe me you wouldn't be able to get to a hospital when you are passing a stone unless you had a hero to carry you to the car while you were screaming. The pain is so horrendous.. Dare I say it's worse the celiac disease... which I also have and I cry to God when I get one tiny smidgeon in me by accident. When I passed a stone I looked like something from the exorcist.. sweating, crying writhing shaking and screaming in bed unable to think at all. Extra bile does serve it's purpose but if it makes you feel better go ahead remove it. They cut 4 holes into you (one for the camera, 1 for the tongs to yank your liver out of the way, one for the soldering iron thing, and a hole through your belly button to pull it out) and it's about a 3 day hospital stay... though I couldn't get dressed on day 3 and was NOT ready to leave at all. But I really don't think this is your problem.

dizziness can also be a bladder infection. pain under your ribs could be a kidney infection/stones or a pulled muscle (something I'm dealing with now).