Air travel Q's (gate check carseat on American)? - Page 3

[Toposlonoshlep]

Haven't read all the responses yet, but she DID say that her kids have their own seats. That's not the issue with taking them onboard. The issue is that the seat has to be certified for an airplane, and even then it is at the airline's (actually, the flight attendant's) discretion whether they'll let you install it or not. My friend had purchased a car seat that was MADE for airplane travel (it also had a handle and foldout wheels to stroll around the airport (genius!)) and she was allowed to use it on a flight to her destination, but not back. No reason given.

Originally Posted by ~Adorkable~ 

because depending on the age of your kids they may not have their own seat! but in my case i was traveling with 2 six month old twins and needed the car seats and a snap and go to get them to the gate, but clearly could not take said items on board with me.

i still dont see what kind of damage you both are referring to that is going to make my seat less crash worthy. specially if i make a point of wrapping it up so they cant grab the thing by any straps

[Toposlonoshlep]

I'm sorry ahead of time because I am going to get flack for verbalizing this, but I really feel that the whole car seat thing has become some weird focal point of the 21st century mommy wars. The whole "family safety" section is absolutely covered in discussions of car seats. To say that one needs to purchase more car seats or replace them after checking them is RIDICULOUS. When I was little, we crawled all over the van floor and slept laying down in the backseat on car trips. Car seats didn't exist. In New York City where we live, only 2% of parents use a car seat in a cab. No one wants to lug that thing around and YES, they take a risk. We take a risk with our children daily in so many ways. Are car seats a great invention? YES! I have two for my son. One in our car, one at his grandparents' house. Have I flown with them? Yep. I checked them in at the gate, too.  Car seats have greatly reduced deaths and injuries when it comes to car accidents. That is AWESOME!!! But you know what? Childhood cancer is on the rise. Do you tell a mother who is feeding her child nonorganic food, or worse, McDonald's that she is being UNSAFE? Do you prosecute her? No? Why not? Isn't she raising the risk that her child will suffer from cancer?

As an urban parent, the car seat high horse know-it-all insults really get to me. I feel like suburban mothers who have the advantage of owning vehicles in the first place need to understand that parents all have different lifestyles and they are still good, "safe" parents even if they don't use a car seat in a cab, or check their car seat at the gate.

Show some respect to each other, mamas! 

[Eclipsepearl]

The issue is that the seat has to be certified for an airplane, and even then it is at the airline's (actually, the flight attendant's) discretion whether they'll let you install it or not. My friend had purchased a car seat that was MADE for airplane travel (it also had a handle and foldout wheels to stroll around the airport (genius!)) and she was allowed to use it on a flight to her destination, but not back. No reason given.

For the record, if she had been flying a U.S. company, the airline employees were breaking FAA rules by not allowing her to use it on board. If a parent purchases a seat and has a U.S. (or foreign) approval for aircraft use, the airline cannot refuse it. I hope she reported it both to the airline management and the FAA. 

http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC%20120-87B.pdf

 No aircraft operator may prohibit a child from using an approved CRS when the parent/guardian purchases a seat for the child.

Page 7 

I'm not sure of the point you're trying to make in the second post. Your logic wasn't clear. In the days when we were little, many children died in accidents who would have survived today. The children who died are not here to make their case. We're the lucky ones. 

Also, far more children die in car accidents than of cancer. There is a clear link between car seat use and children surviving car crashes.

I used a car seat when I lived in a big city. I avoided taxis with my child, taking the tram or bus instead. No big deal. I didn't feel that the moms in the 'burbs with the minivans were judging me. When we moved out, we did get a better car and a better car seat though, just because we were in the car more!

[Toposlonoshlep]

You were the minority if you used a car seat in the big city. In New York, mothers who take cabs (not everyone takes the tram or bus instead) don't drag car seats all over the city. I would like to see current statistics that show that more children die in CAR accidents. More children die of ACCIDENTS, but that includes accidents that don't involve cars. Here is an NYC report: http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/downloads/pdf/episrv/episrv-childfatality-book.pdf. It shows clearly that not only is the average of 1.3 (per 100,000) motor vehicle accidents significantly lower than the national average of 3.8, that non-motor vehicle accidents account for a significantly higher death rate. You could argue that is because more people in NYC use public transportation (with no car seats!!), and that's partially true, but there is also a much lower (almost nonexistent) rate of car seat use in rented and hired cars, as well as one of the highest rates of traffic in the country.  Yes, car seats have GREATLY reduced death and injury rates in car accidents. I mentioned that in my post and it's great! I don't advocate not using a car seat. I just understand that not everyone owns a car and I don't think they are being "unsafe" by not using a car seat onboard the airplane and checking it instead. The chances of injury are so miniscule that to read that someone was concerned about a child being a "projectile" actually made me laugh. I have seen children turn into "projectiles" on buses, in the subway, on every form of public transport. That's just part of traveling with children. SHort of putting them into a bubble, there's just nothing these parents can do but use these forms of transportation without a car seat. Like I said, when I drive, I use a car seat. Cancer is the #1 disease killer of children. I thought my point was pretty clear. To tell a parent that she is being unsafe because she checks a car seat in at the gate is judgmental and ridiculous. If you're going to be car seat police, you might as well police what food parents feed their kids, what cleaners they use, and what lotions they slather onto their kids. A LOT of people check their car seats in on the plane and continue to use them afterwards. A lot of parents live a lifestyle in which they don't purchase a car seat. They're as good of a parent as you. 
 

Originally Posted by Eclipsepearl 

I'm not sure of the point you're trying to make in the second post. Your logic wasn't clear. In the days when we were little, many children died in accidents who would have survived today. The children who died are not here to make their case. We're the lucky ones. 

Also, far more children die in car accidents than of cancer. There is a clear link between car seat use and children surviving car crashes.

I used a car seat when I lived in a big city. I avoided taxis with my child, taking the tram or bus instead. No big deal. I didn't feel that the moms in the 'burbs with the minivans were judging me. When we moved out, we did get a better car and a better car seat though, just because we were in the car more!

Edited by Toposlonoshlep - 9/16/11 at 8:25am

[Toposlonoshlep]

Yes, it was a cross country flight, and she was definitely told not to use it. I don't know the reason, but no, she didn't report them. She just put her little girl in the regular seat and they flew happily and stress-free and arrived safe and sound. I don't think she was up for the battle, and it made no difference in the end. I'll be leaving the thread now and must apologize to the OP that her thread got derailed. 
 

Originally Posted by Eclipsepearl 

For the record, if she had been flying a U.S. company, the airline employees were breaking FAA rules by not allowing her to use it on board. If a parent purchases a seat and has a U.S. (or foreign) approval for aircraft use, the airline cannot refuse it. I hope she reported it both to the airline management and the FAA. 

Edited by Toposlonoshlep - 9/16/11 at 6:50am

[Eclipsepearl]

Originally Posted by Toposlonoshlep 

Yes, it was a cross country flight, and she was definitely told not to use it. I don't know the reason, but no, she didn't report them. She just put her little girl in the regular seat and they flew happily and stress-free and arrived safe and sound. I don't think she was up for the battle, and it made no difference in the end. I'll be leaving the thread now and must apologize to the OP that her thread got derailed. 
 

The reason that her dd arrived safely was because nothing went wrong on the flight. If parents don't report these incidents. They'll continue to happen. 

Again, don't confuse issues by mixing subjects which aren't related. No one was judging anyone. That was your imagination. The OP came here for information and you're bringing up cancer, etc. 
 

[Toposlonoshlep]

I know this wasn't your post, but this is what I was responding to. This attitude right here. If you don't understand the concept of an analogy, there's little I can do to help you understand. 

My friend's daughter arrived safely because nothing happened on the flight....Ummm, yes. The point some PPs were making is that flying with a child in your lap is significantly safer than driving, even with the car seat. Plane accidents are significantly more rare than almost any other accident. I posted statistics on childhood accidents and deaths for you, so you can double check. The fear mongering is really not helping the OP or anyone else keep their child safe. And yes, her thread was completely derailed, starting with the point at which she was told to not check her car seat, because "something could happen to it"....
 

Originally Posted by Maedze 

Unfortunately, they were not safe.  Car seats tend to be handled very poorly as luggage, gate checked or otherwise.   They can be thrown, jumped on, tossed onto the tarmac.  I have personally examined seats that were damaged when gate checked.   

The 'bag' does not provide protection against structural damage.  I would never use a seat for my own children that had been checked on an aircraft, and I would advise anyone who has one to discontinue use and replace it with a new seat.