how do you know if your LO is gifted?

[onedayatatime]

Hi, I'm new to this forum. Lately I've been having some issues with DS who just turned two. He's very hyperactive and doesn't seem to play with anything for longer than five minutes. More than a few people have mentioned Asperger's or ADHD to me, but I think it may be too early to tell yet. He's also had hearing problems from birth, but they're largely resolved now and his speech is coming along fast.

However, despite all these potential problems, he's fascinated by numbers and reading. He can count to thirty (and to fifty with a little help), he knows colours, shapes, can spell words to me, and can read a few words. I'm pretty sure the 'reading' is just memorization. So how do I know if he's gifted? And what do I do with that information lol? I don't want to push him too hard to learn things, because I haven't been so far, but he's happiest when he's engaged in learning something new. Also, is there a possibility that his behaviour could be linked to boredom, or is he too young?

[Cavy]

5 minute limit sounds pretty normal for the age, imho.

I don't want to get in trouble here, just I think part of the forum rules is we can't debate too much definitions or not of giftedness.  My "bright" children never did anything remarkable as toddlers or preschoolers, so I can't comment about that.  You could google for "signs of giftedness in toddlers" as well as anybody.

So my take, if he were my little boy, would be to be happy that he's obviously ahead of average (in some areas) and to keep working on the areas where he still needs to improve (compared to peers, or relevant to what he'll need of preschool). I suspect that if your son truly has special needs wrt his cleverness, or if he's merely a bit precocious and he'll average out by mid childhood yrs, that difference will become obvious in the next two years. For now he's still just a little guy who needs all the usual good parenting you can supply.

[whatsnextmom]

You know, it's really hard to say at this age but the good news is, whether you know he is or not doesn't make much difference. It seems you have an idea of what holds his interests and makes him happy. I'd go with it. I'd perhaps not make that focus on numbers or letters (he'll have years and years of instruction in those areas) but instead explore the world outside in more depth. Try taking him to museums, tide-pooling, nature hikes, zoos, aquariums, ect. Places with child-friendly interactive displays or lots of space to run around would be good in the beginning but don't be afraid of the fine art museum and the like (my eldest loved the art but my youngest just loved counting all the dogs in the paintings lol.) Take a week and learn all you can about elephants. End with a trip to the zoo to see them and discuss all you learned. Of course, if he's pushing for math, that's fine but if he really just likes learning anything, I'd move in more broadening directions. 

Boredom really shouldn't be an issue with a 2-year-old gifted or not unless they are in a highly structured environment. It may be he needs someone to show him the possibility of his toys and stretch his imagination. He may enjoy 1-on-1 imaginary play as much as learning numbers. Make sure he has open-ended toys like blocks, tangrams, dress-up clothes, wooden train-set, kitchen toys... items that lend themselves to creative play. They show him how to use them.

[onedayatatime]

Originally Posted by Cavy 

I don't want to get in trouble here, just I think part of the forum rules is we can't debate too much definitions or not of giftedness.  My "bright" children never did anything remarkable as toddlers or preschoolers, so I can't comment about that.  You could google for "signs of giftedness in toddlers" as well as anybody.

Sorry. I wasn't aware this would be an issue, although I wasn't really looking for an exact definition. I've been having a really hard time with his behaviour lately and I guess I've been trying to find out what may be behind it. 

Thank you for the responses.
 

[joensally]

Originally Posted by onedayatatime 

Hi, I'm new to this forum. Lately I've been having some issues with DS who just turned two. He's very hyperactive and doesn't seem to play with anything for longer than five minutes. More than a few people have mentioned Asperger's or ADHD to me, but I think it may be too early to tell yet. He's also had hearing problems from birth, but they're largely resolved now and his speech is coming along fast.

However, despite all these potential problems, he's fascinated by numbers and reading. He can count to thirty (and to fifty with a little help), he knows colours, shapes, can spell words to me, and can read a few words. I'm pretty sure the 'reading' is just memorization. So how do I know if he's gifted? And what do I do with that information lol? I don't want to push him too hard to learn things, because I haven't been so far, but he's happiest when he's engaged in learning something new. Also, is there a possibility that his behaviour could be linked to boredom, or is he too young?

He sounds lovely and exhausting :).

If a number of people have been bold enough to mention diagnoses, I think it's worth contacting Early Intervention if it's available where you live.  I wouldn't sit and wonder, I'd go ahead and seek professional insight.  My son was involved with EI from age 3, as he's what's termed "2E" or twice-exceptional - both gifted and with some challenging differences.  Our experience with EI was very positive.

I would recommend reading up on executive functioning - ADHD, Asperger's and many other complexities in kids/adults involve under-developed executive function skills (attention, awareness of time, response inhibition, others). 

In a young child, I would call it novelty seeking rather than boredom.  So the skills you want to work on with him include self-management.  If it's framed as boredom, it's easy to put the onus on you to constantly be filling his bucket, which isn't actually good for him.  It's an invaluable skill for an individual to be able to meet their own needs at a developmentally appropriate level.  Many of the regular posters here have successfully applied a less is more approach with their young gifted kids to enhance their self-regulation and EF skills. 

If you like books, I highly recommend James T Webb's Misdiagnosis and Dual Diagnosis of Gifted Children, as well as Smart but Scattered. I think the Webb book is available with a large preview on google books.

Welcome :).

[whatsnextmom]

Originally Posted by onedayatatime 

Sorry. I wasn't aware this would be an issue, although I wasn't really looking for an exact definition. I've been having a really hard time with his behaviour lately and I guess I've been trying to find out what may be behind it. 

Thank you for the responses.
 

You didn't ask anything innapropriate at all. It's just that none of us can really answer your question. Gifted kids come in all shapes and sizes. Some, but not all kids who are advanced in the preschool years end up gifted. Some gifted kids have no interest at all in letters and numbers until school-age. My own kids were not hyper-active and had very long attention spans at 2 but that's not to say yours isn't gifted because he's not like them. If you are asking personally, I will say that I was pretty sure when DD was 2 but she was a really unusual tot. I "guessed" DS would be based on genetics but honestly, I didn't really "feel" it until school age. I STILL can't believe he tests as high as DD because he just doesn't outwardly resemble her at all in that way.

Gifted and ADD aren't things you can get affirmative diagnosis on this young. I don't know much about aspergers. I'd take other people's comments with a grain of salt as really they are only getting a snapshot of your child. However, if you are getting asperger from people who might really know and who really know your child, might be worth looking into I suppose.

[KCMichigan]

5 minute attention span is normal for a 2 yr old.

As PP said, there is no way to know.

2 yr old behavior varies a lot to begin with. 

When my DDs were 2, they had moderate delays in several areas and advancement in others.  You just cant predict a lot at age 2.

If you are worried, contact Early Intervention they can screen for delays or concerns or let you know what is normal.

2 is too young for ADHD (usually age 4+) or Aspergers (Aspergers is usually dx after age  6 and often is suspected when high intelligence is combined with some social delays or speech concerns the dx a child may have at age 2 would be PDD_NOS: Pervasive Developmental Delay- not otherwise Specified).

I also would not use 'boredom' rather he seeks out activity and new situations. Some of that may be personality. Extroverted kiddos often look for new and novel things while a more introverted child may be content with familiar activities.

2 & 3 s are 'busy' ages to begin with! Have fun and enjoy!

[crunchy_mommy]

Hmm I can't answer your questions but my 2.5yo definitely DOES get bored!! So I've been working more on 'teaching' him things. In theory, I'm kind of against that, because I feel like most toddlers can & should learn everything they need to know through play. But my DS needs way more stimulation than play alone can provide him. He is the opposite of your DS, he has a very very very long attention span. (I have no idea if he's gifted, way too soon to tell, but I do know he is advanced in many areas and learns things soooo quickly. He is in EI for sensory issues & social/emotional delays. EI is great and easy and free and if you have concerns about anything, do consider getting an eval!!)

So anyway, for the past week or two, I've tried to teach him something new every day, based on his interests. Some of it is a little academic (words, basic math) but some is not, like the other day I taught him to cut out pictures from a magazine (fine motor skills are one of his strengths and he has always loved scissors!) He also frequently asks what words mean, how things work, etc. and so I spend a lot of time defining concepts for him in detail & giving him visuals like showing how the moon phases work with a couple balls and a flashlight. We make it fun but it's still way more didactic than I would have thought a 2yo would want/need, and a bit outside normal age-appropriate stuff!! I can sense his hunger for more info so I'm trying hard to satisfy it. Basically I'm saying, do what works, even if it goes against how you think things should be!!

[pranava]

My DS is also 2.5 and sounds much like yours.  He is in EI for motor delays and sensory issues.  Several people have mentioned ADHD and Asperger's including the occupational therapist and physical therapist.  What I have found, is that the OT and PT don't have a great grasp of Asperger's.  I think a developmental psychologist would be better for that.  I worried for months about it, and found the book a pp mentioned "Misdiagnosis of gifted kids" (or something like that) to be helpful.  Also, there is a checklist that helps to distinguish between the two.  Checklist is on page 5 http://www.eric.ed.gov/PDFS/EJ860954.pdf   

Oh, and I think a 5 minute attention span for a 2 year old is fairly good.  I know many who have only 5 second attention spans - lol!!

[onedayatatime]

Originally Posted by whatsnextmom 

It may be he needs someone to show him the possibility of his toys and stretch his imagination. He may enjoy 1-on-1 imaginary play as much as learning numbers. Make sure he has open-ended toys like blocks, tangrams, dress-up clothes, wooden train-set, kitchen toys... items that lend themselves to creative play. They show him how to use them.

This is a good point, and something I'd like to try and do more with him. When I sit down with him, he just gets up and walks away. Or he throws a tantrum. But we're working on it.

Originally Posted by joensally 

If a number of people have been bold enough to mention diagnoses, I think it's worth contacting Early Intervention if it's available where you live.  I wouldn't sit and wonder, I'd go ahead and seek professional insight.  

In a young child, I would call it novelty seeking rather than boredom.  So the skills you want to work on with him include self-management.  If it's framed as boredom, it's easy to put the onus on you to constantly be filling his bucket, which isn't actually good for him. 

If you like books, I highly recommend James T Webb's Misdiagnosis and Dual Diagnosis of Gifted Children, as well as Smart but Scattered. I think the Webb book is available with a large preview on google books.

Welcome :).

I'm trying to get a referral put through to see a specialist about his behaviour, but that will likely take months. IN the meantime I've been a bit at a loss as to what I should encourage and when I should let it go, if you know what I mean. I'd like to teach him to entertain himself for a bit because you make a good point here and I've always thought the same. But he wanders around the house doing nothing except being destructive (pulling things down, throwing toys, hitting the cat, etc.) The only thing that excites him is going for a walk, but that's not always possible.

Thank you for book recs!

Originally Posted by whatsnextmom 

You didn't ask anything innapropriate at all. It's just that none of us can really answer your question. Gifted kids come in all shapes and sizes. 

Gifted and ADD aren't things you can get affirmative diagnosis on this young. 

Thank you for the reply. I had been wondering how parents end up here if they never define their kids as gifted in some respect, even if that definition is flexible, which they almost always are when discussing human beings... DH and I talked about it last night, and we both concluded that 'gifted' for us means an aptitude for learning and an enthusiasm for it. When I posted the question here, I think I meant 'how do I know his love of learning isn't just a phase?' I also believe that diagnosing ADHD and Asperger's at this age is jumping the gun, but I've heard of parents who have been able to 'tell' that something was up. I'm either not one of those moms, or I can easily explain away his behaviour as due to age and temperment.
 

Originally Posted by KCMichigan 

2 is too young for ADHD (usually age 4+) or Aspergers (Aspergers is usually dx after age  6 and often is suspected when high intelligence is combined with some social delays or speech concerns the dx a child may have at age 2 would be PDD_NOS: Pervasive Developmental Delay- not otherwise Specified).

I also would not use 'boredom' rather he seeks out activity and new situations. Some of that may be personality. Extroverted kiddos often look for new and novel things while a more introverted child may be content with familiar activities.

Just read this (about PDD_NOS). *IF* there's anything up I think this would fit best. But I'm not assuming anything at this point. I think your comment on 'boredom' might be more appropriate. It's just that I see the way DS acts and it looks like how *I* feel when I'm bored. But really he probably just needs more help in getting his imagination/creative play juices going. He's definitely an extrovert and I'm not (can you tell lol?).

Originally Posted by crunchy_mommy 

Hmm I can't answer your questions but my 2.5yo definitely DOES get bored!! So I've been working more on 'teaching' him things. In theory, I'm kind of against that, because I feel like most toddlers can & should learn everything they need to know through play. But my DS needs way more stimulation than play alone can provide him. He is the opposite of your DS, he has a very very very long attention span. (I have no idea if he's gifted, way too soon to tell, but I do know he is advanced in many areas and learns things soooo quickly. He is in EI for sensory issues & social/emotional delays. EI is great and easy and free and if you have concerns about anything, do consider getting an eval!!)
 

This sounds a lot like DS! When he's engaged and interested, he'll spend 20 minutes or so on an activity. But the activity has to be 'arranged' for him and conditions have to be right in order for him to be interested. Sometimes - most of the time - I can't get the combinations right.

Originally Posted by pranava 

My DS is also 2.5 and sounds much like yours.  He is in EI for motor delays and sensory issues.  Several people have mentioned ADHD and Asperger's including the occupational therapist and physical therapist.  What I have found, is that the OT and PT don't have a great grasp of Asperger's.  I think a developmental psychologist would be better for that.  I worried for months about it, and found the book a pp mentioned "Misdiagnosis of gifted kids" (or something like that) to be helpful.  Also, there is a checklist that helps to distinguish between the two.  Checklist is on page 5 http://www.eric.ed.gov/PDFS/EJ860954.pdf   

Oh, and I think a 5 minute attention span for a 2 year old is fairly good.  I know many who have only 5 second attention spans - lol!!

Sometimes it is 5 seconds lol! I forget a lot that 5 minutes is much longer for a 2 year old than for his mama... Thanks for the link!

[Roar]

What happens if you try to engage him alongside a task that you are working on? For example, asking him to find all his clothes as you sort through laundry or work with this own shovel in the garden. Those types of activities are all learning and that sort of engagement works well with many young ones. The idea is they are always welcome in your world and welcome to your attention but you aren't focused all of your energy on trying to engage or entertain.

I would also suggests looking at sensory kinds of play. A bucket, a paintbrush, and a sidewalk can be quite an entertaining combination for some young ones. Also, a sinkful of water and some little toys can be soothing. Over three years old maybe a shallow rubbermaid with some sand or dry beans and little toys like cars can be a calming activity.

When you can't go outside do you have any indoor area that allows for physical activity - if you have the room a little slide or little trampoline can be a real sanity saver. And, you can always turn on the music and dance.

[whatsnextmom]

Having some quote issues so sorry this isn't lined up well. An idea, I used to teach preschool and If I saw that the kids were "stuck" with what to do with the blocks for example, I'd just grab some on my own and sit by myself building a race track using the play food as cars and such. I'd never invite them to play which was of course, made me irrisistable lol. Often I'd get kids coming to sit with me but even if they didn't you'd start seeing kids mirror that sort of play days later. Let's face it 2-year-olds don't want to be TOLD anything. If you show him the possibilities without stepping on his toes, you might spark a new idea of play for him.

I also reccomend getting out of the house a lot for these sorts of kids. My youngest wasn't hyper and like I said, he had a long attention span but he needed SOOOO much stimulation and interation. If he didn't get it, he was rebellious, angry, stubborn and not fun. I was always one to get out of the house with the kids but I learned quick that both DS and myself were just better for eachother in fieldtrips. I invested in museum, zoo and aquarium passes and we went almost everyday. Plus, the extra physical activity helped too.

As to the other part, I think a lot of parents of young ones end up here when their issues don't seem to fit on the regular boards. I had a 2-year-old who wanted to talk about Degas and Renoir. That's not stuff that flies on your typical boards. Even if I wasn't sure about the gifted label, she was unusual enough to warrant a different venue for my questions.  Honestly, I don't talk much about my youngest on these sorts of boards. He's officially gifted and obviously smart but also a pretty typical boy in most other ways.

Originally Posted by onedayatatime 

This is a good point, and something I'd like to try and do more with him. When I sit down with him, he just gets up and walks away. Or he throws a tantrum. But we're working on it.

Thank you for the reply. I had been wondering how parents end up here if they never define their kids as gifted in some respect, even if that definition is flexible, which they almost always are when discussing human beings... DH and I talked about it last night, and we both concluded that 'gifted' for us means an aptitude for learning and an enthusiasm for it. When I posted the question here, I think I meant 'how do I know his love of learning isn't just a phase?' I also believe that diagnosing ADHD and Asperger's at this age is jumping the gun, but I've heard of parents who have been able to 'tell' that something was up. I'm either not one of those moms, or I can easily explain away his behaviour as due to age and temperment.

[crunchy_mommy]

EI works with DS & us on play skills. They actually show him what to do, how to play -- I guess these are things that come about naturally for most kids, but not for DS. It's hard for me & DH to teach him play skills because we both have similar issues to DS lol... So they are kind of showing us how to show him, in a way! Then once we get him involved in an activity, we got get a glass of water, or go to the bathroom, or whatever, so he starts getting used to playing by himself for a minute or so (always come back!), and we're gradually lengthening the amount of time.

Being around other kids helps a TON, DS just watches them but then later will try to do whatever they did, mimic their play...

We spend massive amounts of time out of the house -- yesterday we headed out around 11am and didn't return home 'til 11pm. We pack lunches, snacks, etc. and just go to the park, playdates, run a few errands (even if there's nothing we need, we just wander the stores), stop by the children's museum for a few hours, etc. Our life is a million times better when we just aren't home.

Another thing you can do is redirect his destructive impulses... so if he's throwing toys, grab a few soft balls & play catch or toss bean bags into a bucket. If he's hitting, redirect him to a drum or slapping the floor rhythmically. If he's running all over, take him outside, or play some active games like Ring Around the Rosy. Whatever impulse he has, try to channel it into a similar (but more appropriate) activity. This isn't just a discipline technique, but also a way to introduce him to appropriate play. Yeah, you'll feel like you're leading him around and directing him constantly, but as he learns these alternatives, he will eventually start doing them on his own and you can back off. Also, he sounds like a really active kid, so maybe things like tunnels & tents, homemade forts, toddler trampoline, etc. would be fun for him...

One last thought: Try to let go of the way you think he SHOULD play & interact, & experiment with all the variables. Maybe he prefers to stand at a small table rather than sit on the ground & play. Maybe he wants to run around while you read to him instead of sitting in your lap. Maybe he likes a very quiet environment, or maybe a constant chatter with you, perhaps white noise or music while he plays. Some of his favorite playthings may not be toys -- my DS loves his sunglasses, an old cell phone, the garlic press...

[Lollybrat]

Originally Posted by onedayatatime 

Hi, I'm new to this forum. Lately I've been having some issues with DS who just turned two. He's very hyperactive and doesn't seem to play with anything for longer than five minutes. More than a few people have mentioned Asperger's or ADHD to me, but I think it may be too early to tell yet. He's also had hearing problems from birth, but they're largely resolved now and his speech is coming along fast.

However, despite all these potential problems, he's fascinated by numbers and reading. He can count to thirty (and to fifty with a little help), he knows colours, shapes, can spell words to me, and can read a few words. I'm pretty sure the 'reading' is just memorization. So how do I know if he's gifted? And what do I do with that information lol? I don't want to push him too hard to learn things, because I haven't been so far, but he's happiest when he's engaged in learning something new. Also, is there a possibility that his behaviour could be linked to boredom, or is he too young?

How is his use of verbal language? Are you familar with Hyperlexia? Hyperlexia is a language processing disorder characterized by early reading combined with difficulties using verbal language and social difficulties. Hyperlexia often presents with Austism Spectrum Disorders (ASD), but can occur as a stand-alone language processign disorder. Children with hyperlexia have a distinct learning style. Often they are also talented with numbers, shapes, maps, etc.

My son is academically advanced and has high fucntioning autism with hyperlexia. He does not qualify for an Asperger's diagnosis becuase he had a speech/languge delay before the age of 3. DS started reading soon after he turned 2 and started talking closer to age 3. Much of his early speech was echolalia, scripted speech, and spelled out words. When he started talking we discovered that he enjoyed counting to 9,000! He has always been fascinated by shapes, and since he was 4 his favorite shape  has been a rhombicuboctahedron (which he spelled for his preschool teacher, so she could look it up).

DS is now 7. He is still academically advanced in math and reading, but we still do not know if he qualifies as gifted. The school will probably do testing for that later this year. There is no doubt of his autism, He has made great progress with intensive therapy and special education services, but still struggles with pragmatics (the social use of language) and social skills. He is an amazing little boy with many talents and challenges. He has a unique perspective on the world and a delighful, offbeat sense of humor. He is the light of our lives.

[onedayatatime]

Thank you for all the ideas! Going to give these a go - especially sorting laundry lol! - and see if they help keep him stimulated. We're looking into a museum pass too. 

Hyperlexia sounds interesting, and it could fit. I'll look into it a bit more and perhaps mention it to the specialist when we finally get the referral. Thank you again!