Please help :( Situation getting too difficult for me

[lawschoolmama]

Hi all,

For a bit of background: I have been co-sleeping with DD1, age 3 years 10 months, since she was born.  She used to night-nurse, but night-weaned and then fully weaned at age 2 years 4 months when I was pregnant with DD2.  Even then, she'd nurse for a minute or two and go back to sleep, and when she wasn't hungry she would just take a paci at night which made things fairly easy for me.  Now, however, she still insists on sleeping in my bed.  She says she needs to "snuggle" to sleep at night, i.e., snuggle my neck until she falls asleep, but then she sleeps through the night.  My husband doesn't like that she's still in bed with me though, as wife plus two kids in the bed plus the fact that he can't stand being touched when sleeping means that he's unable to sleep in the bed with us, which he resents.  But I have tried getting DD1 out of our bed, and it has just not happened.  First I tried a toddler bed next to our bed, she hated it.  She'd wake right up after you put her in it and climb back into bed with me.  Then I tried a regular twin bed in her own room, she picked out the bedding herself and everything.  But she said it was scary.  I offered to put the bed in our room, but she said she can't sleep without cuddling.  What to do????

With DD2, who is now 14 months old, I've also co-slept with her since birth.  But she likes to night nurse all. night. long.  And by "night nurse" I don't just mean a nip and then back to sleep.  She won't take the paci at night at all, ever, so if she's in the mood for suckling while sleeping, she insists on remaining latched on--and I really have a hard time sleeping while she's latched on, it's pretty much impossible and starts to give me creepy crawly feelings.  She won't sleep in a crib at all, even for naps, though sometimes she'll sleep in a bouncy seat.  However, I'd feel nervous putting her in the bouncy seat at night for any length of time while I was trying to sleep because she could potentially scoot herself out of it and I don't want her to get hurt.   As soon as she's in bed with me though, it's nursing time.

So the problems with this arrangement are: 1) Mommy is getting the creepy crawlies from all the nursing (mostly) and the snuggling to sleep (to a lesser extent, but when combined with the night nursing it is tough for me); 2) I would LOVE to get them both to sleep earlier (DD2 will go down in the bouncy at 8:30, but DD1 is more of a 9:30 girl) WITHOUT me needing to go to sleep at the same time as them; and 3) I really feel like DD2 doesn't sleep so well because of all the desire to night nurse, BUT she won't sleep in a crib and I don't think the bouncy all night would be safe; and 4) DH has to sleep in the bed that was meant for DD1 and he resents that and gives me a hard time about it.  He feels like we'd definitely have more sex if we could sleep together in our own bed without kids, and I have to admit I think he's probably right.

I guess I feel like I've made this bed (so to speak) by always co-sleeping, and now I have to lie in it but it's getting harder and harder to do that.  And, I'd like to have a third baby--but where in the heck would he or she sleep?  I've always had tender feelings about co-sleeping, there's so much of it that I love, but I'm just feeling so overwhelmed by it right now.  And yet, I don't want DD1 to feel "pushed out" of the bed because of DD2, and I do not want DD2 to CIO at all :(  Please help...any advice or BTDT would be so appreciated right now.  I have no one to turn to about this IRL!

[Triniity]

Hi, sounds really tough on you!

I am pretty strict on having boundaries around myself and I totally refuse tolerating things "for the kids". i cannot stand this being stroked all.the.time. DD loves it. 

DS is turning and kicking and pulling and everything all.the.time in bed, and I cannot possibly sleep around that. 

I love co-sleeping if he lays still, though. 

Here´s what I did. I told them, that I cannot stand the tightness of the bed any longer, because they are getting sooo big. And my belly is getting big, and I cannot move too well. So they have to sleep in their "big-kids-beds". There beds stand directly at my bed, head side towards me, DD at the lower end, DS at the upper end. I put them to bed, told them their story and told them, that they will get a surprise from the sleepy fairy if they stay in bed all night long.

DD learned it pretty quick, she is five after all, without much fighting and crying. It was harder with DS but with holding his hand while he is falling asleep it alright. DS is allowed in bed if he wakes up at night, and I will just let him climb in with me (I hope to change that before the baby comes though) but DD needs to stay in her bed. That means, if she wakes up and asks if she can come I say no and ask her if she needs a drink or something, and than I hold her hand until she falls asleep. If she has a bad dream or something or feels unwell she is welcome in my bed, too. 

At the moment she sleeps through the night most of the nights (for four weeks or something!) and DS comes basically every night into our bed. 

Hope that helps.

[D_McG]

Does your big girl still nap?   If so might that be the reason for the late bedtime?  Mine didn't go back to a 'normal' (7pm) bedtime until he quit napping.  Also what time does she get up?

Anyway I would just accept that it won't be easy and barrel through.  Certainly the 3 yo could be moved out.  When we moved DS out our approach was "it's' OK if you don't like it!  you will like it in time".  So tears, tantrums were all comforted just like any other 'must do' thing.  We held his hand through it but it was just non negotiable that he fall asleep in his room.  We let him come in during the night at first but we don't let anyone in overnight anymore (except my baby).  

With the toddler I would nightwean, jay gordon style.  

I would move the 3 yo out first and just be matter of fact about it.  That the toddler will go once she is nightweaned.  

And then bring your hubby back!  I love having my babies in my bed but after the first few months my husband being there is priority #1.  (He likes cosleeping though but we agree that age 2 ish is our limit for full time cosleeping).

I think your biggest hurdle is your approach (or it was, for me!).  I had to accept that the kids didn't have to like it at first.  Crying (with me) was OK.  Sleeping alone is new and it's OK that they weren't enthusiastic. I knew they would be fine.  They would grow to like it.  I have the experience that they don't to guide them through the transition.

GL!

[lawschoolmama]

PPs, thank you so much for your replies.  Honestly, just hearing someone who doesn't totally disapprove of co-sleeping (like pretty much all my friends IRL) say that they transitioned their LOs despite the kids' resistance, and everyone ended up ok, means a lot to me.  D_McG, yes, DD1 still naps sometimes, but is transitioning away from it.  All the kids in her daycare class have nap time, and her teacher tells me that she sleeps for about an hour and a half there.  I've asked them about cutting it back, but basically their rule is that if the kid lies down on the cot and goes to sleep, they're not going to keep her from doing that.  At home and on the weekends, we generally try to barrel through without a nap for DD1, so that she'll go to sleep more easily at night, but it's a weird transition time for her.  If she doesn't nap, she goes to bed earlier but gets pretty cranky by late afternoon--and if we go anywhere in the car at that time, she falls asleep.  If she does nap though, it is harder for her to go to bed. 

Here's my new plan, tell me what you think: We are moving to a new state in about three weeks.  Once there, I plan to set up both girls' beds in our bedroom, and tell DD1 that now it's time for her to sleep in her own bed.  Daddy or I will lay there with her until she falls asleep.  If she wakes up scared, she can ask Daddy or me to come lay with her/hold her hand until she goes back to sleep.  Every night that she stays in her own bed all night, she can have a treat--not sure what that is yet, I'll think about it...For DD2, once DD1 is sleeping in her own bed more consistently, I will do the Jay Gordon night-weaning plan.  Then I'll begin to transition her to her own bed in the same way as with DD1?  Regarding that, maybe a sibling bed would be preferable, since they're both really cuddly?  I might have to look into that, not really sure how that works...Then when they're both in their own beds in our room, I plan to move them to their room, somehow.  Seems like a lot of steps!  But I guess the key is just saying, we're going to do this, let's get started!

[D_McG]

Originally Posted by lawschoolmama Once there, I plan to set up both girls' beds in our bedroom, and tell DD1 that now it's time for her to sleep in her own bed. 

I would do her own room.  I think it would be easier.  If she's in the same room as you she'll still want to be in your bed.  My kids in their own rooms gives them a nice new place for them to be proud of!
 

[Triniity]

I like your plan, lawschoolmama, I didn´t do the "own room thing" because I feel that it would be too hard for me to get up at night and calm them down if they get upset. There are people though, who felt that the kids sleep through the night better in their own room. 

I personally prefer them in our room (in case of a fire or something :) ) 

I think everything depends on how sure you are yourself on your plan. It totally did not work for me to move them out of my bed until I was so absolutely sure that I need my own space again to get a couple of hours of sleep, and that this would be the best solution for all of us. So, no whining from DD did work, she had to stay in her bed. And than, it was no big deal at all. 

She did not ask for her own room or bed at anytime, I am still waiting for her to ask if she can sleep in her own room, but I guess that will never come (maybe with her first boyfriend?) 

Siblingsbed did not work for us, they keep themselves awake by pulling at the blanket and kicking each other. 

[lawschoolmama]

Thanks again for the helpful replies!  I'm debating on the own room/same room issue for DD1.  In our new home, the girls' bedroom will be right next to our bedroom--the two rooms are actually connected by a door.  So maybe, instead of transitioning first to own bed then to own room, it would be easier to do just one transition into the new room?  Not sure, I'll have to think on it.