**Update** Looking for perspective: DS having difficulty at private PK

[ians_mommy]

Long post- sorry

Mommas who have BTDT...please offer some perspective.

Background:

This past summer my son was accepted to a private school that is PK - 12th grade. My husband and I are very excited as it is an IB school which offers alot to it's students.
 

He will be 4 in November and so was placed in the youngest of the two PK programs.

Prior to this, he has attended a daycare since 16 months of age and has always done very well. He is a good-natured, outgoing, active little boy. He isn't always the best listener, but we have always received very positive feed-back from his teachers.  At his "interview" for the new school, he was observed participating in an hour of the "summer-fun" program and did very well (lined up, waited his turn, initiated friendly play with a little girl etc).

Current situation:

This past Friday was his first day of school. They had half the class start on Thursday and half on Friday to ease the transition. When I picked him up Friday his teacher told me he had a great deal of difficulty with circle time. He did not want to sit and when she took his hand to guide him back to the circle (he had started playing with another toy), he screamed and cried. I told her that at his daycare he did not have to do circle time as long as he did not disrupt the class and would need to learn the new rules. She seemed in agreement and I thought all was well. Over the weekend we played circle time with stuffed animals and talked about the importance of listening to our teachers.

Today was the first day with the whole class. At pickup my husband was told that DS again did not participate in circle time, was not listening well, and dumped sand on another child's head at recess. My husband apologized and assured her we would continue to work on listening at home. She seemed supportive and all was well.

I just received a call from my son's teacher stating that because DS was consumming so much of the teacher's aide time that there were "real concerns about his ability to transition". She stated that as of now, he would not be allowed to stay for the extended day we have already paid for (11:20-2:30), which really only includes lunch, playground time and nap. She also wants my husband and I to come in for a conference with her and the principle this Friday. I asked her if I needed to be concerned that my son would be asked to leave the school and she said, "at this point I do not know".

I am so completely confused and sad. He seems like such a laid-back little guy to me. Babysitters always love him. We went to swim class this afternoon and he listens perfectly to his instructor. I dont understand why he is having so much trouble.

I also feel as if he is not getting a fair break. He has only been there two half-days with a weekend interrupting the days. He is not yet four...this is a new school with new toys, friends and adults...he is not agressive or sassy (he really does want to please) and honestly is very empathetic (I am sure he would offer an apology and hug to the poor kid who he dumped sand on)....

I dont know...I just feel so sad and judged.

[Honey693]

*hug* It just sounds like he's having a hard transition and his teacher is not dealing with it well.  I would expect way more from a teacher.  Have you asked her how she deals with it when he refuses circle time?  Talking about being kicked out after less than week is ridiculous.

[ElliesMomma]

what is an IB school? my read on this is that your son is not happy there. for whatever reason. i would guess that he is picking up on something and acting out (dumping the sand, for example). 

doesn't sound like a school i'd want my kid at. they seem very harsh and judgmental.

if you leave the school, they will give you a refund, right? 

what's your Plan B?

[whatsnextmom]

I'd really question whether this is an enviroment you want your child in. It sounds extremely structured which is not developmentaly appropriate for the age. I taught preschool for several years and can tell you that sand dumping, crying because you have to leave an enjoyable activity and resistance to circle time is NOT outside the realm of normal for the 3 and 4-year-old set (especially the first week of school!) I'll be curious as to what is said in this meeting with the principal as I just can't believe this is the whole story! No preschool teacher should be overwhelmed by this stuff alone.

Sometimes these preschools are a dream on paper but they aren't neccessarily good for your child and that doesn't make your child inferior. It seems they selected a very homogenous group of kids they felt would be easy to control.

[ians_mommy]

ElliesMomma: IB stands for International Baccalaureate. He has been excited to go in to school both days and in a happy mood at pickup, so I don't think it is a matter of him not wanting to be there.

No, I would not get a refund. In fact, you are committed to the entire year of tuition even if a child leaves the school. They do require new families to purchase a tuition insurance plan (I wasn't happy about it)...so I guess that is my financial plan B.

whatsnextmom: Thank you for your feedback. I have been questioning my parenting all day. I *thought* those types of behaviors were normal (albeit annoying) for a 3-4 year old child as well. I have never seen behavior from him that was aggressive, dangerous or suggestive of an underlying developmental problem. I am also curious as to what will be said on Friday.

[lindberg99]

I can't believe this whole situation. Pre-k is really just a preschool program, right? I can tell you that things like not sitting in circle time, dumping sand, etc. went on quite a bit when my kids were in the 3 yo class at nursery school. 

And I don't understand how they can not give you the money back for the aftercare program that they said he couldn't attend. I could see them not refunding for people who choose to pull their child out but they are telling you he can't come. How can they keep your money? 

I guess just try not to stress too much until the meeting on Friday when you can hopefully get the facts and figure out what is going on. Who knows, maybe by Friday he will have settled in and it will be a moot point.

[meemee]

honestly at 2 1/2 days.... damn thats sooo uncool.

seriously would i really want my son there. even at 3 dd was sensitive to others emotions and could pick up not wanted signs. if the teachers are being so strict with him he is sooon not going to enjoy preK at all.

i wonder if that's the reason why there are no IB elementary school in our city. not one.

i would really also entreat you to check into the IB program. they may not be all that you think they are cut out to be.

this is ridiculous. he doesnt want to take part in circle time. of course if you keep forcing him and making him do it, he IS going to use up all the aide's time.

[MJB]

Originally Posted by whatsnextmom 
It seems they selected a very homogenous group of kids they felt would be easy to control.

This is exactly it. They want not only the brightest, but also the most manageable children in their program. It makes everything easier on the teachers and boosts their test scores. His behaviors are totally common for 3-4 year olds, but they are looking for uncommonly obedient and mild-mannered students. 

Your son was accepted into the school, and probably has the ability to handle it. I wouldn't worry yet about getting kicked out. Keep working on listening and *especially* on not dumping sand on people, and try the half-days while he adjusts. Make sure he gets enough sleep and a good breakfast. 

Even if you do end up leaving the school, it does not reflect poorly on your parenting at all. 3 year olds are hard creatures to control and so much of it is dependent on your child's temperament. Maybe he's just not ready for that kind of environment. 

[meemee]

Originally Posted by MJB 

This is exactly it. They want not only the brightest, but also the most manageable children in their program. It makes everything easier on the teachers and boosts their test scores.

yup yup. ITA.

at our local gifted/basic schools in our district there is an exam to get in. its a pretty rigorous schedule for the kids and there are at least 5 or 6 1st and or 2nd graders who leave the school because they cant take it any more. one of the boys was my favourite. he could not sit still adn was taking too much time to learn how to read by first grade. yet you should have seen the claymation characters he made with all sorts of dough. he is much happier at his local public school.

[whatsnextmom]

Originally Posted by meemee 

i wonder if that's the reason why there are no IB elementary school in our city. not one.

i would really also entreat you to check into the IB program. they may not be all that you think they are cut out to be.

We have several IB public elementaries in our county and they are quite successful and gaining popularity. This particular school might not be a good fit but that's not to say that the IB program isn't still a good fit for the child or that it won't be an excellent fit for the child in years to come.

[tbone_kneegrabber]

That isn't really enough time for him to get used to the new school, new people, new kids, new teachers etc.  They may just want to sit down with you and talk about their expectations and how you can all work together to make it work out.  Instead of leaving it for 2 months and then being like "well, now it doesn't seem to be working out"

I know from working in Prek (although a play based prek) there are kids who from the first day you think "we need to get the parents in here and talk about how to make this work" 

Have the other kids been together before?  Are all the kids new?  Or are some of them already friends etc?  

Go to the principal meeting with an open mind, but if you paid for, and *need* childcare for the afternoon, then don't roll over easily just because they want to try to push you out.

[ians_mommy]

Well what a day today was.

At 11:00 I received a call from the principle stating she wanted a meeting with me today at pickup (11:20).

I was sat down with her and my son's teacher and told that because he was taking up so much of the TAs time, he is being asked to leave the school and will not be invited back.

I was floored.

This is the second day of the first full week. As I sat in stunned silence the principle spent about 10 minutes telling me everything she thought was wrong with my little boy. According to her:

--He refuses circle time

--He does not spend more than a few seconds on any one task (untrue).

--He cannot speak in complete sentences (absolutely untrue)

--He does not follow direction (untrue)

--He make annoying noises all day long

--He is aggressive on the playground (she refered back to the sand dumping incident)

--When she questioned him about his behavior he would not make eye-contact

She stated that he was twice removed from the classroom today and brought to her office. When she was questioning him all he would do was cry, and repeat "truck, play, truck, play" over and over. From this she has come to the conclusion that he cannot speak in sentences. He was scared...of course he would not make eye contact and was not speaking well....he's not yet 4!  The little boy who can't speak in complete sentences just said to me, "Mommy, I made a mess, I need a towel" (spilled some water).

And as far as spending time "on task", the kid will focus completely on his legos, a puzzle, or coloring for extended periods. He makes the most impressive lego creations. He also gets very excited around new toys and would have (over time) settled down a bit and not needed to investigate everything.

As for the noises...he is an energetic boy with a big imagination...what can I say.

The "aggression" is what surprises me the most. He has always been a very gentle boy. He has a 16 m.o. sister whom he has never, not once, acted aggressively towards. I have seen other children push or hit him at daycare or on the playground and he usually cries- never hits back. We are a gently home and he does not have aggression modeled for him.

He has also really gotten into alot of imaginative play lately with his favorite topic being robots, rockets and super-heros...this may have contributed to behavior that bothered another child. I am not minimizing it and would have certainly worked with them to deal with it, but I honestly have a hard time believing it was anything dangerous or expulsion worthy.

Anyway, the whole "meeting" involved her critisizing my child and downright mocking him (she was imitating his noises in a rather mean manner). She also heavily insinuated that there was something wrong with him. After she said, "he is just not suitable for our school" I decided it was not even worth the argument. Not once did she or his teacher offer a positive or kind word. I completely respect their right to decide who does and does not fit in to their school, but I do not respect people who would judge a small child so harshly.

I just don't get how they could see how pleasant he can be at his interview, offer him admission, then decide so quickly that he is a problem.

She did say that since we are "being asked to leave" that I would have my money refunded...I guess for that I should be appreciative. 

I left the meeting with my little boy waving at them saying, "bye! see you tomorrow!"...I was sobbing before I reached the car.

What is really akward is my husband was recently offered a varsity coaching job with the upper level school.

[Linda on the move]

I'm sorry that you had that experience, but I think its for the best that your sweet little boy will be far away from the crazy people.

There are schools with nice teachers and staff who understand that children are little and are still learning.

I have a child with sn so I've spent time in meetings about what is different about my child. I don't see any flags in your posts, and even if there were, the teachers were wildly out of line.

[ElliesMomma]

OP: take your money back, and run! 

enroll him in a nice play-based preschool where he can let his imagination run wild! and where he will be treated like the normal child he is.

sheeze.

i'm sorry to say this b/c i know you liked the school going in, but *good riddance*.

that school just sounds like waaaaaaaay too much pressure to put on little children.

[meemee]

whew i am so happy that decision was taken out of your hand.

i am so happy your boy is not going back to all teh negativity tomorrow.

i am so happy u will get ur money back.

i am so happy ur ds will hopefully go to a better school where he will be welcomed and he will flourish into the golden child he is. a place where he is appreciated for himself - not for what he cannot be. 

i can see them having expectations for a K student, but omg not an almost 4 year old. 

i agree - good riddance to bad rubbish. 

i celebrate the new life your son is going to embark on. 

[whatsnextmom]

I'm so sorry you and your boy had to go through this. Go find a lovely play-based preschool who will appreciate him and give him the freedom to learn in a developmentally appropriate environment.

Believe me, based on what you said, my own DS would have been totally unsuitable for that school at 3 too. DS did not like circle time and while he was very bright, never went to the academic stations prior to kindergarten. He was active and boisterous and I know talked too much. He had all these sensitivities to sounds, textures, foods, ect. I swear they had an aide whose sole purpose was to line up DS's sock seams because it drove him crazy to have them crooked. His preschool teachers never complained and I know he could not have been easy because he was certainly not easy for ME. At age 10, DS speaks 3 languages, works at advanced levels and is top of his class. I regularly hear how focused and innovative he is. I have no doubt your story will be the same down the road.

I hate that they suggested your DS was aggressive based on the single sand incident. Like I said, I taught preschool for several years and sand dumping is rarely malicious with intent to harm. It's usually a curiousity because they really don't get the discomfort or danger of it, something they think will be funny or an impulsive reaction to something hurtful someone has done to them. Absolutely, it needs to be addressed but I only ever had one child repeat the action after talking to them and he had autism and was prone to repeating actions in general.

Big hugs to you. Remember, this is a tiny little blip in the big picture. DS is going to find his place and you'll eventually look back on this and be grateful you were pointed in a different direction.

[DariusMom]

Wow! Hugs . . . I'm *so* sorry.

Glib as it may sound right now when you're smarting from this horrible experience, you and your little guy will find a *much* better place and you'll ultimately be happy that you left the school. If they get that worked up about very very normal behaviors in a *three* year old, it doesn't sound like a healthy environment at all. You'll be glad you didn't stay there and found a place that understands child development and models compassion, kindness, and working through problems and conflicts.

I know I'm just reading your side of things on the internet, but fwiw, it doesn't sound like there's anything wrong with your DS!

Hang in there and put this all behind you.

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by ians_mommy 
 

This is the second day of the first full week. As I sat in stunned silence the principle spent about 10 minutes telling me everything she thought was wrong with my little boy. According to her:

--He refuses circle time

--He does not spend more than a few seconds on any one task (untrue).

--He cannot speak in complete sentences (absolutely untrue)

--He does not follow direction (untrue)

--He make annoying noises all day long

--He is aggressive on the playground (she refered back to the sand dumping incident)

--When she questioned him about his behavior he would not make eye-contact

Sounds like a 3yo.
 

Originally Posted by ians_mommy 
She stated that he was twice removed from the classroom today and brought to her office. When she was questioning him all he would do was cry, and repeat "truck, play, truck, play" over and over. From this she has come to the conclusion that he cannot speak in sentences. He was scared...of course he would not make eye contact and was not speaking well....he's not yet 4!  The little boy who can't speak in complete sentences just said to me, "Mommy, I made a mess, I need a towel" (spilled some water).

My son was doing this at 6yo. I got a couple of calls from school that he was in the principle's office (for actual issues, though not properly handled by the school) that ds was crying and wouldn't talk to them. The principle at this school was...a "dragon lady" (her withering stare would turn many a parent into emotional ash) whose attitude chased away parent volunteers by the dozens.

Originally Posted by ians_mommy 
 

And as far as spending time "on task", the kid will focus completely on his legos, a puzzle, or coloring for extended periods. He makes the most impressive lego creations. He also gets very excited around new toys and would have (over time) settled down a bit and not needed to investigate everything.

As for the noises...he is an energetic boy with a big imagination...what can I say.

Sounds normal to me .

Originally Posted by ians_mommy Anyway, the whole "meeting" involved her critisizing my child and downright mocking him (she was imitating his noises in a rather mean manner). She also heavily insinuated that there was something wrong with him.

I got the same attitude from ds' first (regular public) school. And though technically there was something "wrong" with ds (ADHD, SPD, etc.,) they did not follow the law/district policy in identifying it--instead they kept cranking out behavior charts and suspensions and saying this should be working there must be something wrong with you/him (essentially, not in those exact words).

Originally Posted by Linda on the move 

I'm sorry that you had that experience, but I think its for the best that your sweet little boy will be far away from the crazy people.

There are schools with nice teachers and staff who understand that children are little and are still learning.

I have a child with sn so I've spent time in meetings about what is different about my child. I don't see any flags in your posts, and even if there were, the teachers were wildly out of line.

I didn't realize how different teachers/administrators could be until we switched schools.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElliesMomma 

OP: take your money back, and run! 

enroll him in a nice play-based preschool where he can let his imagination run wild! and where he will be treated like the normal child he is.

sheeze.

i'm sorry to say this b/c i know you liked the school going in, but *good riddance*.

that school just sounds like waaaaaaaay too much pressure to put on little children.

Originally Posted by meemee i am so happy u will get ur money back.

i am so happy ur ds will hopefully go to a better school where he will be welcomed and he will flourish into the golden child he is. a place where he is appreciated for himself - not for what he cannot be. 

i can see them having expectations for a K student, but omg not an almost 4 year old. 

i agree - good riddance to bad rubbish. 

i celebrate the new life your son is going to embark on. 

Originally Posted by whatsnextmom 

I'm so sorry you and your boy had to go through this. Go find a lovely play-based preschool who will appreciate him and give him the freedom to learn in a developmentally appropriate environment.

Big hugs to you. Remember, this is a tiny little blip in the big picture. DS is going to find his place and you'll eventually look back on this and be grateful you were pointed in a different direction.

Like pp have said, they are looking for a particular child personality and are not interested in children who deviate from that profile even in a normal, age-appropriate way. So yes, you were judged but you weren't judged fairly. They could at least be honest and admit that what they want is not what children this age are typically capable of . I'd leave an honest assessment of this school on the Great Schools website, though if your dh is likely to be offered/accept that job, you might want to wait on that -- and you can casually let them know how well your ds is doing at his new school .

I can imagine how upsetting that was, but there is nothing wrong with you/him -- and today I would take him to do something really fun , then spend the evening looking for another school, or maybe "just" a daycare that will allow him the freedom to play. IIRC, you are military? What do you think the likelihood is that you will be there more than a few years?

Edited by Emmeline II - 8/31/11 at 9:37am

[Honey693]

I don't have anything about the situation to say that hasn't already been said better by other posters, but I wanted to post.  Take yourself and you son and do something incredibly fun today.  Try and forget about how awful they were and enjoy a fantastic day out with your normal, awesome 3 year old.

[KCMichigan]

Like PP, I think you should totally disregard the woman. Your son sounds like a 3 yr old.

I taught Preschool (3 yr old class) and everything your DS did sounds normal. 3s (and 4s!) are noisy, short attention span, get scared/lose speech when confused or upset.

Barring excessive violence  that after remediation could not be solved, we have not ever kicked a child out of preschool.

I think you will find a far better location that may have more developmentally appropriate program and supportive teachers.

A GOOD 3 yr old teacher will recognize that kids need time to explore, adjust, acclimate, and experiment within the boundries set by the school for safety. Yes, it takes time for all kiddos to learn the ropes/rules/expectations until then lots of hugs, gentle reminders, and modeling from the teacher.

Also what is a TA for but to help the kids?? Often a single or set of kiddos  DO require more intervention than other kiddos, it is the  fluid nature of child development and personalities. That is why the classes have TAs and teachers. 

I am wondering if your DS is in a state with a Dec1st cut-off date. He would be in a class attempting to prep for K next year. It is possible they really want kiddos that are Bday BEFORE Sept 1st. I like in a Dec. 1st cutoff state and a lot of really prestigious private schools around us do a Sept 1st cut off with limited exceptions for Sept- Dec1st Bdays. And it is because really they are PK programs aimed for K prep, which often are not developmentally appropriate (regardless of academic ability) for an older 3yr old/young 4  vs an old 4 or young 5 (that just missed cut off dates). They push the envelope for the older 4/younger 5s-- I cant imagine an older 3yr old child  (even though they are age eligible for the K the next year)  in some of the heavy academic settings.

I hope you find a wonderful setting with loving supportive teachers! Your DS sounds like a sweet, gentle child that likes to explore. You want that curiosity nurtured- not squished.