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not teaching him "tricks" - Page 5

post #81 of 94
Sorry, I didn't realize this thread was only for people who agreed with you.

I went back and read your OP... it looks like the only mistake the MIL made was in pressuring him to play the game. Obviously, she should take a cue from him if he doesn't like that particular game anymore. There are tons of others.
post #82 of 94

Sort of personally because I loved playing that game with my son and we would cheer and give him smiles, laughs, hugs for "performing". I didn't force it on him, we just played it and one day he raised his arms and waited for mme to say "How big is baby?". 

 

I get the not directing to a point, but if I never introduce him to new things he'll never learn. If I don't repeat "So big" fifty or a hundred times he'll never learn. I'm just confused about the line. Do you believe in never directing? What is your criteria for praise and attention? I'm just confused. 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ContentMama View Post

 

All those other things can be seen as tricks too if they are reinforced with praise and attention....I'm all about letting the child lead the way, letting him be into what he wants at the moment and not swerving him off course because I think it's cute when he...fill in the blank. Plus, repeating words is something that doesn't need to be "taught" the child will learn it on their own.

 

We all have our different ways of being with babies, what we think is "right" and what we think "babies like to play".

 

you seemed to have taken my post personally....???

 

 


The role of grandparents in the rearing of healthy and happy children should not be overlooked. A recent study concluded that spending time with a grandparent is linked with better social skills and fewer behavior problems among teenagers, especially those living in single-parent or stepfamily households. This study found that children and teenagers whose parents have separated or divorced see their grandparents as confidants and sources of comfort. In fact, supportive relationships with other family members outside the immediate family may lead to better adjustment for all children and teenagers

 

http://www.apa.org/pi/families/resources/parents-caregivers.aspx#

 

post #83 of 94

I agree with your bit about grandparents involvement - but this highlighted is where you apparently disagree with OP (and myself, and a few others on this thread). I do not believe my baby needs me to introduce her to things in order for her to learn. I think she will discover things. I think she will listen to me talk and learn how from hearing me/watching me. Once she can talk, I think she will ask me about what sparks her curiousity. I will teach her as she pleases.

 

This is what I have done with my 3 year old DS as well. Many think it's odd that my DS can't sing the ABC song (and that he just recently learned to count to ten).... but he hasn't shown any interest when he hears another child doing it and I'm not going to sing it to him until he wants to. Right now, letters just aren't big for him. However, he can identify most any tree by its' leaves, tell you what ingredients go in most dishes that I prepare, tell you what almost any tool is used for, and he plays soccer better than most school age kids I've seen (though he's never had any sort of soccer experience). The concept the OP believes in (correct me if I'm wrong) is the idea that the child is born with everything inside.... when they show interest, you teach them. It's the difference a child saying "What's this? Tell me about... how does this work.... how can I...?" and an adult saying "We are going to do this. Let me show you this. I'm going to teach you how to...". Learning is intrinsic. Attention is constant - praise is mostly unnecessary. The child is proud of THEMSELVES, and that is what gives them worth. I praise my kids for things that just are - They ARE wonderful human beings, I love them because they exist, because they are mine... not because they behave a certain way or learn a certain skill.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by asraidevin View Post

Sort of personally because I loved playing that game with my son and we would cheer and give him smiles, laughs, hugs for "performing". I didn't force it on him, we just played it and one day he raised his arms and waited for mme to say "How big is baby?". 

 

I get the not directing to a point, but if I never introduce him to new things he'll never learn. If I don't repeat "So big" fifty or a hundred times he'll never learn. I'm just confused about the line. Do you believe in never directing? What is your criteria for praise and attention? I'm just confused. 
 


The role of grandparents in the rearing of healthy and happy children should not be overlooked. A recent study concluded that spending time with a grandparent is linked with better social skills and fewer behavior problems among teenagers, especially those living in single-parent or stepfamily households. This study found that children and teenagers whose parents have separated or divorced see their grandparents as confidants and sources of comfort. In fact, supportive relationships with other family members outside the immediate family may lead to better adjustment for all children and teenagers

 

http://www.apa.org/pi/families/resources/parents-caregivers.aspx#

 



 

post #84 of 94

Like so many threads I've read lately, this one seems to have been somewhat derailed.  To the OP, for what it is worth, I get that your ex-MIL annoys you, and I think it is very possible that your feelings towards her cloud your judgment of her actions.  What she is doing is not abusive or disrespectful in any rational sense of those words.  I too get annoyed with my MIL over minor things, but I also recognize how very important she is in DD's life. I would never complain to her about the way that she interacts with DD if the only issues were the ones you described.  I would not want to risk DD's relationship with her over such a small disagreement. Having a difference of opinion about big issues like spanking, television, playing with guns etc., is a different story.  But you are not talking about those things. You are talking about the way she chooses to play. I know in my situation, if I tried to redirect MIL through giving her books or criticizing her, putting restrictions on her access to DD for the issues you describe, I doubt very much that it would go over well. I wish you luck in dealing with this issue.  I really struggle with keeping myself in check when it comes to MIL, so I can totally relate.  I don't believe she is doing anything that warrants intervention though. 

 

post #85 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by ContentMama View Post

 

Playing the so big game is scientifically proven to increase the caregiver/child bond? I'd like to see the studies.

 

I agree that babies love routine, repetition and ritual. I do too! This isn't the same thing as being the director and producer for play time.



How exactly is leading a child in a game of "So Big!" playing producer and director of playtime? It is one, little, and- in the big scheme of things- totally insignificant game. YKWIM? Must be a perspective issue as well as a philosophical one. One person's playing with their baby is another person's "stealing baby's autonomy".Babies are, after all, babies...they can't walk or talk and they're still learning to express their needs. They love to watch and mimic their parents and caregivers. Even if you embrace child-led parenting, you are going to be the initiator and the leader in most of the interactions you have with the baby, just naturally.

 

My larger question....(and I have read every post in this thread, btw.)...Say that as a parent you ARE the producer/director/initiator of most playtime. What exactly is damaging about this? It's disrespectful? Ok, how so?

post #86 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by coffeegirl View Post

 

My larger question....(and I have read every post in this thread, btw.)...Say that as a parent you ARE the producer/director/initiator of most playtime. What exactly is damaging about this? It's disrespectful? Ok, how so?


i don't want to argue on this thread and i don't see this as such.  i think it's good to share perspectives, and that is what i am trying to do. 

hitting your kid damages your kid.  how you choose to educate your child isn't "damaging" in that sense, so that seems like kind of a loaded statement, you know?  let's back off that a little bit and if you want to talk about WHY some of us think it's not a great choice for the way we want to parent/school/unskool/whatever, we can.

for me, it's not the greatest idea, as i have done a good bit of reading and research and formal education at the graduate level about different instructional methods and learning styles and child development.  i really like what i see from styles like montessori, where a child tends to stay motivated to learn rather than learn to be led, if that makes any sense.  i think really the problem with modern public education is that it sets up a paradigm where a child loses motivation and curiosity.  i think that letting the child direct playtime and learning stimulates and encourages curiosity, and lets the child realize intrinsic motivation.  that's also the problem that i personally have with reward systems-- that they produce a habit of expectation of reward or praise rather than letting knowledge and learning be the reward.  education is a process that is never completed, and by breaking it up into little bits and giving out treats or "good job" kinds of things, it really shifts what i see as a child's natural tendancy to explore and turns it into learning by habit or learning when led. 

but i think it takes a good bit of conditioning to quell and squash curiosity and eagerness, too, and that some kids will continue to thrive no matter the conditions placed on learning, but in my mind, why go there?

 

post #87 of 94
I'm not against teaching kids silly games or songs or tricks myself, but if they aren't into it, then continuing to try over and over seems weird to me. But it may be that adult doesn't know how to interact with a child in any other way too, so maybe they need suggestions on what to do or just to tell them that it is ok to let the child lead. But yeah, I think the most important thing is respecting the child. If they are loving you singing the ABCs to them, then great, but if they are saying "No" in whatever way they can, let them take the lead or try a different game. I'm one who tries to let my daughter take the lead more, but sometimes she seems a bit stuck, so I'll start a game of chase or whatever and gauge her response. Luckily she is very clear about what she wants and doesn't want most of the time, so it is pretty easy to tell. There are times when my DH will bug me when he is being too controlling IMO of her play. He wants her to play something specific with him or a certain way or whatever. To me, as long as it is safe for her and anyone she is playing with/around and won't damage things, I am happy with however she wants to play.

But I do agree that you don't have to drill things into kids for them to learn, kids are constantly learning, but if there is something that you think is important for them to learn, I also don't think there is anything wrong with introducing it them respectfully. If they are enjoying it, great for everyone! If not, then move on to something they do enjoy and revisit it later when their interests change.
post #88 of 94
I didn't do the "so big" thing with my kids because honestly I don't get it - not my kind of game I guess. But we do and did pat-a-cake and that kind of thing. I do like self-directed stuff, and I do avoid praise, but I figure I can show them something, and if they appear into it, do it more so long as they continue to seem to be enjoying it and wanting it. But I try to think of it as showing rather than teaching. The difference to me is that in one case I'm just introducing the game and then following their lead, rather than showing over and over and trying to create interest.

If I'm reading the OP right, she is probably OK with introducing a game and then following the child's lead and continuing so long as there is interest, as explained above, but her MIL is playing this game with her ds even when he doesn't appear interested. Which, as I said, is IMO not a hill to die on and I think maintaining the relationship with the grandparent is a more important issue, but I do get her point.

I think some people in the thread might be talking past each other - like "introducing the game" to one person might be interpreted as "teaching the game" by another, or vice versa.
post #89 of 94

nod.gif
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mamazee View Post

I didn't do the "so big" thing with my kids because honestly I don't get it - not my kind of game I guess. But we do and did pat-a-cake and that kind of thing. I do like self-directed stuff, and I do avoid praise, but I figure I can show them something, and if they appear into it, do it more so long as they continue to seem to be enjoying it and wanting it. But I try to think of it as showing rather than teaching. The difference to me is that in one case I'm just introducing the game and then following their lead, rather than showing over and over and trying to create interest.

If I'm reading the OP right, she is probably OK with introducing a game and then following the child's lead and continuing so long as there is interest, as explained above, but her MIL is playing this game with her ds even when he doesn't appear interested. Which, as I said, is IMO not a hill to die on and I think maintaining the relationship with the grandparent is a more important issue, but I do get her point.

I think some people in the thread might be talking past each other - like "introducing the game" to one person might be interpreted as "teaching the game" by another, or vice versa.


 

post #90 of 94

Really? 

 

Are you sure you're not just annoyed by your ex-MIL in general?  Because this is just silly to me. 

 

I don't understand why it seems like so often things that should just be a petty annoyance (which we all have) get blown up into some big life-altering issue that is going to ruin your kid.  I see it on MDC all. the. time. 

 

My ILs and my parents all do things that annoy me.  And yeah, I might bitch about it to my friends.  But I certainly don't act like it's some huge deal and stifling their creativity and their abilities to be all sparkly and crunchy clean. 

 

You have free child care.  Do you really think you're going to find childcare that is satisfactory if this is the bar you're setting?  I pay $1000 a month for someone to watch my kid and I promise they're probably playing that same game. 

 

Heck, I asked my kid "What does a cow say?" about ten times tonight.  It's fun to see her learn new things, and she has fun learning them.  Does it mean she never gets tired of it?  No. 

 

But I wish people would quit acting like it's practically child abuse to teach your kid things and to encourage them to repeat what you've taught them.  As long as she's not lashing him with sticks every time he gives the wrong answer ("no!  you're not that big!  you're THIIIIIIIIS BIG!") I think you should just bite your tongue and appreciate a good thing when you've got it.

post #91 of 94

However, I've never played this game with L before.  It kinda sounds like fun.

post #92 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by colsxjack View Post

Maybe you could let her know what his signs are for moving on and not wanting to participate in an activity any longer. And.or show her other things that your son enjoys doing and playing that will also be fun for her. That may at least give her more fun and show her that the one game isn;t all he van do and also help her to read his cues. Some people are not great at reading childrens cues, Hopefully she will then play a wider variety of games with him and allow him the opportunity to express his "skills" more,



I read the OP and was like... "biglaugh.gif playing a game with my child is going to squash his sparkly glitter!?" 

Then I read followup post #15 and was like "greensad.gif  It would annoy me if someone was pushing the game past my kid's interest level..."  

Then I was thinking that if I were in that situation I would... Then I read the post by colsxjack and thought, well, this person already said it!

post #93 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by hildare View Post




i don't want to argue on this thread and i don't see this as such.  i think it's good to share perspectives, and that is what i am trying to do. 

hitting your kid damages your kid.  how you choose to educate your child isn't "damaging" in that sense, so that seems like kind of a loaded statement, you know?  let's back off that a little bit and if you want to talk about WHY some of us think it's not a great choice for the way we want to parent/school/unskool/whatever, we can.

for me, it's not the greatest idea, as i have done a good bit of reading and research and formal education at the graduate level about different instructional methods and learning styles and child development.  i really like what i see from styles like montessori, where a child tends to stay motivated to learn rather than learn to be led, if that makes any sense.  i think really the problem with modern public education is that it sets up a paradigm where a child loses motivation and curiosity.  i think that letting the child direct playtime and learning stimulates and encourages curiosity, and lets the child realize intrinsic motivation.  that's also the problem that i personally have with reward systems-- that they produce a habit of expectation of reward or praise rather than letting knowledge and learning be the reward.  education is a process that is never completed, and by breaking it up into little bits and giving out treats or "good job" kinds of things, it really shifts what i see as a child's natural tendancy to explore and turns it into learning by habit or learning when led. 

but i think it takes a good bit of conditioning to quell and squash curiosity and eagerness, too, and that some kids will continue to thrive no matter the conditions placed on learning, but in my mind, why go there?

 

 

Thanks for attempting to explain this in a way that I can kinda understand. :) Do you (and this is also for ContentMama, holothuroidea, et al) see this as an either/or situation? For instance...in the "So Big" game, it's led by the caregiver....so according to your philosophy "So Big" might fall into the category of hindering the child's natural curiosity and suppressing the realization of his intrinsic motivations. I can actually kinda wrap my mind around that, for the first time in this thread. But, do you believe that (what I'm assuming is) a few minutes of this game in the course of a day full of all different kinds of interactions will really have this much of a detrimental effect on a child?

 

I could see how that might be a concern if, for instance, a reluctant child were forced into playing "So Big", or any other kind of similar game, for hours/days on end.
 

 

post #94 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhiOrion View Post

Really? 

 

Are you sure you're not just annoyed by your ex-MIL in general?  Because this is just silly to me.


I agree. I think she's making an effort to bond with your child and you feel you need to micro manage their play.
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