Gut Biota Never Recover from Antibiotic Use: Loss Extends to Future Generations - Page 2

[1love4ever]

I am glad to see that you took the time to read the refrences before saying that you thought this article was full of crap:)   I think it may be exaggerated a bit, but I think we all know that overuse of antibiotics is very common and has caused a lot of problems that never existed before.  When I was in the medical field I saw A LOT of overuse of antibiotics, such as doctors prescribing them to otherwise healthy patients who came in with the common cold.  On one occasion I asked the Dr why he prescribed the antibiotics because it was obviously viral, and he said it was to keep the patient happy and keep them coming back because sometimes if you dont give them meds at an office visit then they will throw a fit to the hospital....  UGH

Here is one of my fav articles on antibiotics, it really doesnt have much to do with what this article is talking about but its still a good one :)  http://mothering.com/pregnancy-birth/treating-group-b-strep 

Anyway, in some cases antibiotics are necessary and lifesaving, but I do believe there are long term consequences to using medications, even if these causes have not been found yet.  The poor health of the US is just one of the things that makes me believe this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildKingdom 

OK I read the references- the ones that were actually journal articles.  That's because real articles don't usually reference The Daily Mail as a source.   Anyway, while the real articles do discuss subtle changes in the gut microflora as a result of repeated exposure to antibiotics, I did not see anything about these changes being passed from generation to generation, or that they were causing all sorts of horrible issues.  The Nature reference that brings this up the idea of autoimmune issues being caused by antibiotics was an editorial, not an article and not research.

It sees that the Gaia article took a small truth and sensationalized it.

[1love4ever]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride 

Antibiotics really are, imo, miracle medication...in certain situations, for certain infections. But, suggesting that this is a matter of "dying from infection" vs. gut flora issues is way off the mark.

  I agree!

I also agree with the other things you said. 

I know a 19 month old who has been on probably 15 courses of antibiotics, all for colds, flus and and ear infections.   I have had illnesses where what I needed was some serious rest and a lot of really healthy eating, and that is the treatment I have always given DD when she has been sick(DD has only been sick a few times in her life, and she eats so healthy as it is that we dont need much diet adjustment although I do give her some manuka honey.  I believe that one reason she doesnt get sick much is because she eats so well to begin with).  DD is never sick for more than 2 days and her symptoms are always so mild.  If she gets sick, so do I, and my symptoms are always worse and last longer than hers.  I have never taken her to the Dr for being sick, but she has never been sick with more than a moderate cold so I have never really had the issue of whether or not to refuse antibiotics with her.  I would take antibiotics if it was for something really serious, I was fairly certain they would help, and I had already tried waiting it out/alternative medicines, etc.  

There is certainly a place for antibiotics, they really are a lifesaver under the right circumstances, but they wont be a lifesaver for long if they keep being used like they are right now.  Pretty soon practically every bacteria will be resistant to the antibiotics that were previously effective against them!

[1love4ever]

Originally Posted by Mirzam 

No one has said anything about denying people antibiotics if it could save their live, in those instances I am sure a screwed up gut is worth it, but it is a shame they will have to deal with that on top of having a potentially fatal infection.  But antibiotics are given the vast majority of times in situations where no life is threatened and there are alternatives, just not marketed by pharmaceutical corporations. Those poor people who do have messed up guts from antibiotics probably care, a lot.

Thats right!  I care, I was given many antibiotics as a child for absolutely no reason(see my very first post about being given antibiotics to try to get rid of acne!  I was also given them for bad colds a lot)

Originally Posted by Honey693 

Screwing up gut flora from antibiotics is much better than dying form an infection so I don't care if this is true or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhoenixMommaToTwo 

I looked at the sources. They're crap. Come back to me when you have a REAL study and viable information. Then we can discuss "gut flora" nonsense.

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

It is really hard to know whether or not whatever you are choosing to do is actually safe - or one of those things that we will go  "Really?!  ugh... I used that" in the future.   You cannot live your life in fear, still I tend to use medication on an as needed basis and do not turn to them quickly, given the history of western medicine.

Excellent point, this is how I tend to think as well!

[lindberg99]

I don't think you need to despair or feel guilty after reading info like this. I think you just should file the info away and use it when you are making future decisions. If you took antibiotics for acne as a teen, obviously you can't do anything about that. But you can make a choice not to have your child take antibiotics for acne.

And I don't think everything is a lost cause. I believe ways will be found in the future to restore your natural bacterial flora. Like "fecal transplants", which sounds pretty gross but it does seem to be more effective than taking probiotics, etc.

[Mirzam]

Originally Posted by lindberg99 

I don't think you need to despair or feel guilty after reading info like this. I think you just should file the info away and use it when you are making future decisions. If you took antibiotics for acne as a teen, obviously you can't do anything about that. But you can make a choice not to have your child take antibiotics for acne.

And I don't think everything is a lost cause. I believe ways will be found in the future to restore your natural bacterial flora. Like "fecal transplants", which sounds pretty gross but it does seem to be more effective than taking probiotics, etc.

I agree with you. I too think that the body, given time (which many, in this time of instant gratification, aren't willing to allow) and the right help, can restore the lost bacteria. For me the right help would be a raw animal food diet, full of bacteria. Many people have found great success with eating high meat, which is small amounts of very rotten raw meat, crawling with so called "nasties"! My DH who's gut was devastated as child by antibiotics, and had terrible gut issues, has taken high meat without ever getting sick from it, only better. Recently, he had a major detox of penicillin though his skin which resulted in unbelievably itchy arms. He hung in there and is now itch and presumably penicillin free. 

[oaktreemama]

crawling with so called "nasties"! My DH who's gut was devastated as child by antibiotics, and had terrible gut issues, has taken high meat without ever getting sick from it, only better. Recently, he had a major detox of penicillin though his skin which resulted in unbelievably itchy arms. He hung in there and is now itch and presumably penicillin free. 

Ew. Maybe it was the "nasties" crawling out of his skin rather than decades old remants of penicillin. BLECH. MDC needs a puking icon to detail just how gross and awful and bad for you this is.

[Mirzam]

Ew. Maybe it was the "nasties" crawling out of his skin rather than decades old remants of penicillin. BLECH. MDC needs a puking icon to detail just how gross and awful and bad for you this is.

Actually it isn't gross, well maybe, but it certainly isn't bad or awful for you. Quite the opposite, it can have very beneficial effects for both physical and emotional health. The Inuit know this and have eaten high meat for thousands of years. I always assume that MDC members are more open to alternatives than they really are. 

BTW, my DH hasn't eat high meat in a few years. The penicillin cleanse had absolutely nothing to do with that. But if there were nasties crawling out of his skin, he would be delighted, better out than in he would say. 

[oaktreemama]

I always assume that MDC members are more open to alternatives than they really are.  

Well if being alternative means eating rotten meat and fish like the Inuit do then I am quite happy to wallow in my mainstream existence.

Besides, their eating habits and tolerances have developed on a completely different path than mine. I would no more recommend their diet to someone like me, then recommend my diet (which is low carb/high fat/meat based) to them.

[BeckyBird]

Mirzam, I would like to thank you for talking about high meat. I've never even heard of it until you mentioned it, and I just spent the last hour learning about it. Fascinating and gross at the same time lol!

I'm a taxidermist, so I've seen my share of rotten meat! Rotten meat doesn't make me queasy, but the thought of eating it was new to me, and I admit, it did gross me out quite a bit! After reading more about high meat, and how it is common in certain cultures, it does not seem as bad. I'm interested in learning more, and who knows? If the health benefits are worth it, then maybe I'll give it a try. Just need to get past that ewww factor!

[PhoenixMommaToTwo]

Originally Posted by BeckyBird 

Mirzam, I would like to thank you for talking about high meat. I've never even heard of it until you mentioned it, and I just spent the last hour learning about it. Fascinating and gross at the same time lol!

I'm a taxidermist, so I've seen my share of rotten meat! Rotten meat doesn't make me queasy, but the thought of eating it was new to me, and I admit, it did gross me out quite a bit! After reading more about high meat, and how it is common in certain cultures, it does not seem as bad. I'm interested in learning more, and who knows? If the health benefits are worth it, then maybe I'll give it a try. Just need to get past that ewww factor!

Yeah, it's probably better if you keep that ew factor. Rotten meat is not meant to be eaten. Period. "Antibiotic cleanse" or not. I don't consider that mainstream, I consider that common sense. There's a reason it's rotten. And what about the bacteria crawling all over it? That goes in your body.

[BeckyBird]

I hope you are expressing genuine concern, because otherwise your post is a little too snarky for my *taste*.

[purslaine]

Originally Posted by BeckyBird 

I hope you are expressing genuine concern, because otherwise your post is a little too snarky for my *taste*.

love the pun  (intended or not!)  

I am not jumping on the raw meat bandwagon - I am close to vegetarian, actually - but I want to keep an open mind on the topic and not dismiss something I know very little about.

I do have a question for Mirzam (and links if you have any) - aren't you worried about food poisoning?  Aren't there bacteria in raw meat that can actually make you sick?  Is this avoidable through preparation or quantity ingested?