I can get my 4.5 month old to sleep more than 10-11 hours per day. Please help me, I'm really...

[malayasmommy]

He won't freakin' nap.

I look for him to get tired, I nurse him, put him in the co-sleeper, and he's awake within 15 min.  We do this ALL DAY LONG.

He sleeps ok at night, goes down about 8:15pm and is up 1-3 times until 6:30am, and then the above cycle happens 2-3 times per day.

I have a 3.5 year old that WON'T LEAVE ME ALONE unless I park her in front of the TV.  She has never been, and is not, the kind of kid that can "quietly read in her room", or "quietly draw a picture".  She is loud and she wants attention all the time.  Unless there is a TV, and I hate that I do that.

I don't know many AP parents in person, but was talking to my sister-in-law who just "turned a page" with her 1 month old son.  She said what she did is she rocked her baby until he's almost asleep, put him in his crib and let him fuss.  When he starts to cry, that's when she'd pick him up and rock him until he was sleepy again--then she repeated that cycle.  After 1 day, she said he is "self-soothing himself back to sleep".  This all sounds great, but how do you do that all day when you have an incredibly loud 3-year-old in a tiny house????  Also, my son will basically go from being asleep, to laying in his room quietly, to crying.  He doesn't really "fuss", it's point A to point B like now. 

I am totally anti-CIO but GOD, this lack of sleep can't be any better for a baby than having to fuss for a while...????  I don't know what to do, I feel terrible for him, terrible for being a bad mom, and terrible for my 3-year-old who gets none of my attention and is parked in front of the TV. 

I have "Health Sleep Habits, Healthy Baby" but between work and FT parenting I have NO time to read.  Maybe 5 min per day.

HELP!!!!!

TIA

[BabySmurf]

googlethe wonder weeks.  babies go through phases of mental development that make it really hard for them to settle and sleeping becomes really difficult.  they also are usually more cranky and a lot more clingy. it happens at very specific ages, and the severity is different for different babies.  sometimes it affects naps, sometimes night time sleep, likely both. for us, it affected naps, then night time sleep, then it gets better.  all of a sudden things will just *click* and they will go back to normal. 

the only thing i can recommend would be to try wearing the baby for naps.  i'm not sure if that will work for you, but it may be worth a try! or maybe using some white noise....

just know that it is a phase and you are not the only one going through it!!

[~Adorkable~]

dod you swaddle for naps? i found that my babes slept 30-40 min unswaddled and low and behold they slept 90 min or more swaddled!  i had usually only done it for night time, but after figuring that out life became a whole lot better for us.

we also were a huge fan of swings for naps, they really slept good in them, even a cheep little portable size one rocked! literally

i also found that i was waiting too long for the first nap, thinking that the over night meant they were the most refreshed, but in the end i figured out they needed a nap almost exactly a hour after they work from the night, if i waited more than 1.5 hours, they would have a very hard time getting down and the whole day became a cascade failure.

good luck

[Viola]

My first child was more of a catnapper, so I'd nurse her and she'd fall asleep and would stay asleep in the nursing position and stay that way if I held her, but if I put her down, she would wake up.  My second baby was a better sleeper, and I got into the habit right away of putting her in a sling when she was sleeping, and she got used to being moved in and out.  But she was just a better sleeper in general, and if you haven't been using a sling like this, it might not work. With my first, I generally used the sling to help put her to sleep, usually by walking outside.  I'd also use the stroller for that, especially as she got older, and I could get some exercise and she could get some sleep. When she was younger the swing worked for that, she'd be awake for awhile, but quiet, and then eventually fall asleep.  So if your goal is to have some time during the day with your baby asleep, that might work.  I also like the suggestion of putting him down for a nap not long after he wakes up.  My second daughter would take a good nap about 2 hours after she got up.

What time are you and your daughter going to bed?  What kinds of things are the three of you doing together?  Can going outside to a park or taking walks help?

If the book you mean is Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child by Weissbluth, I have to say I read that book and it was not helpful to us, it trying those techniques made things much worse, and it's not gentle parenting.  The problem is that CIO doesn't really work with certain baby's personalities, and those are the ones where we need it to work, imo. 

[scrandall1173]

Hi Tia,

I was in the same situation as you. Reading that book is what helped me. I was able to follow it without my baby crying much at all.

I wrote a blog about it that may be of some help (www.mommamemoirs.blogspot.com). My daughter went from napping forty minutes a day to about four hours a day.

I also have a toddler. I confess she watches a video during part of the naps. No more than an hour and a half a day. We have a basement that we hang out in during first two naps but that's probably over kill as I have a pretty loud sound machine in baby's room. If I didn't have the basement I would probably play a Baby Einstein cd on repeat during naps though- I have a feeling that would help. My daughter takes three naps and we don't do the basement during the third--my husband or I play puzzles or something quiet with her.

We swaddle the baby just around the belly and legs. Arms out so she can push up if she rolls.

You are right that those techniques were written for someone without a toddler at home! I had exhausted all my AP books before I bought HSHHC.

Check out the blog for thefull story on what we did and feel free to send me an email with questions or reply here. I will subscribe to the thread.

Oh and in the book just jump to the section that describes the typical nap schedule for a four month old and older.

[MoonWillow]

I would let go of the tv watching guilt. If it actually helps your daughter stay calm and gives you a few moments peace then I see it as less of a negative and more of a blessing ;)

[foreignerforlife]

I want to agree with the above poster who said it is just a normal phase. My 4.5-month-old has also been going through a weird phase. It started with him being awake every 1.5 hours at night, and now nights are better but he doesn't sleep during the day. That is, until I dragged the Moby wrap back out. I put him in that and bounce on our exercise ball, and he's out within minutes. Is yours teething? Mine is getting teeth, and I have the feeling he needs more snuggly time, so maybe that's why the wrap works again. Just a theory.

Also, putting him in the stroller and going for long walks works well. Maybe you can walk with your older child somewhere fun, like a park to play, and the baby can either sleep in the stroller or, if that doesn't work, in the wrap. I was going nuts, too, spending the whole day trying to get him to nap, and I find getting out of the house really helpful. 

I think the important thing to remember is that this is just a phase, and it won't last long. Good luck!

[malayasmommy]

Thanks all for your input!

First of all, I meant I'm following "No Cry Sleep Solution" (I blame lack of sleep for the mix-up, ha ha.)  Healthy Sleep Habits, Healthy Child has some helpful ideas for pre-6 months but I'm definitely not doing the cry-it-out stuff they recommend after 6 mos!

What I've heard, in regards to babies sleep, is that when babies naturally wake up during their sleep cycles (like we all do) they expect to be in the same position they were when they fell asleep.  (In the NCSS book, the author compared it to you waking up in the middle of the night in the kitchen when you fell asleep in your bedroom--you'd wake up very confused and a little alarmed by how that happened!)  I do nurse him to sleep, then I put him in the co-sleeper when he's asleep.  I've tried the author's suggestion to pull my nipple out of his mouth before he falls asleep so that he doesn't fall asleep while sucking, and we're going to keep working on it, but for now he gets MAD when I do that!  He starts to cry, and root really hard, so I just put it back in there and try-try-try again.

He falls asleep wonderfully when I wear him in the Pikkolo carrier (he prefers that over the Sleepy Wrap) but again, with a 3.5 year old making tons of noise, he doesn't sleep well or long.  Plus it's hard for my daughter to keep hearing "Shhhh!" for hours on end.  The swing also works great, but he's a big guy and pretty soon will be too big for the swing.  For those of you who had your baby sleep in the swing, did you then have to work with them later on how to fall asleep outside of the swing! 

I have him going to a baby-sitter 2 mornings a week while I work, and she needs to figure out how to get him to sleep longer than 20 minutes as well and obviously she can't nurse him to sleep!  Another reason that I feel it's important for him to learn how to fall asleep, and stay asleep, without nursing.

I really like NCSS book so I'm going to keep working on it.  And of course as I type this, he's napping great!  (First time having a good nap in his co-sleeper in over a week!)  I just feel terrible that he's not sleeping well, I know it can be really detrimental to their development.  Thanks as well, for the validation on TV-guilt.  I would say the same thing to someone else, but hard to not feel guilty myself.  So I appreciate hearing it from others, makes me feel a little better about it.

Thanks again, and I am open to any/all suggestions!

[scrandall1173]

Just a note...I was able to do HSHHC without any crying it out :)  I hope you can sort something out.  Things like bouncing a child to sleep on a bouncy ball are great-- but not practical when you have more than one kiddo! 

[Blanca78]

BabySmurf--how long did the Wonder Weeks phases last for you? My DD is hitting the 19-week one (sounds like OP's son is too), except for us naps are fine but night sleep sucks. It's been going on a week and a half now...thanks for reassuring me that things can return to "normal" (whatever that means with a baby!)

OP--I second BabySmurf's suggestion--WW is a really interesting book. In tough times like these it helps so much to have some sort of explanation! Glad he gave you a good nap! Hope that means things have turned a corner.
 

Originally Posted by BabySmurf 

googlethe wonder weeks.  babies go through phases of mental development that make it really hard for them to settle and sleeping becomes really difficult.  they also are usually more cranky and a lot more clingy. it happens at very specific ages, and the severity is different for different babies.  sometimes it affects naps, sometimes night time sleep, likely both. for us, it affected naps, then night time sleep, then it gets better.  all of a sudden things will just *click* and they will go back to normal. 

the only thing i can recommend would be to try wearing the baby for naps.  i'm not sure if that will work for you, but it may be worth a try! or maybe using some white noise....

just know that it is a phase and you are not the only one going through it!!

[rparker]

Do you have The No Cry Nap Solution? Or just The No Cry Sleep Solution? I have both and I found the "nap" one to have a lot more useful information. The #1 thing that I took away from that book is that the TIMING of naps is really important and if you try to get them to nap too soon (or wait too long) it's a lot harder. She has an entire chart listing by month (for babies) and then by year (toddlers) which breaks down how much sleep a child needs, length of naps, how many hours BETWEEN naps... it's really, really helpful. 

I have a reasonably quiet 3 year old (who DOES look at books quietly) but I frequently have had to resort to allowing her to watch television when I'm home alone with both kids... sometimes it's the only way that the baby's needs can be met too. I'm really anti-TV too, but sometimes there's no perfect solution. Giving her a piece of paper and a few pages of stickers also buys me about 20 minutes sometimes. As do coloring books (but furniture gets colored on too sometimes). Barbies and Duplo blocks are also a good distraction for us. Have you considered preschool? 

[BabySmurf]

Originally Posted by Blanca78 

BabySmurf--how long did the Wonder Weeks phases last for you? My DD is hitting the 19-week one (sounds like OP's son is too), except for us naps are fine but night sleep sucks. It's been going on a week and a half now...thanks for reassuring me that things can return to "normal" (whatever that means with a baby!)

OP--I second BabySmurf's suggestion--WW is a really interesting book. In tough times like these it helps so much to have some sort of explanation! Glad he gave you a good nap! Hope that means things have turned a corner.
 

If I remember correctly it was about two weeks for us when all was said and done.  And it was literally like a switch goes off in their brains - he's hitting another one now - and if you can get over the frustration and lack of sleep, it's really amazing. 

to OP, the *nap* solution book is another one that i've heard a lot of good things about, and i would like to reiterate the importance of timing, although i will say for us, it doesn't seem to make a difference when i try while he's in a developmental change.  i give myself a time limit where if he doesn't go to sleep withing x amount of time, i'll just stop trying to get him to sleep and try again later.  eventually he will nap.  i agree that it's hard to know that your LO is sleepy and can't sleep, and i don't want him to be sleep deprived, but I find the overall stress level of everyone lessens if we don't spend all day fighting about it. when things calm down, try to get a good routine going, and try to let him go to sleep in one particular place.  that is something that changed with my DS at that age too - he was much more aware of his surroundings.  making sure that naps happened in the bedroom every time helped us tremendously.  also, IME he is okay with falling asleep nursing, and then me moving him over to his crib while asleep, if that's where he is every time if he wakes up. 

hth!

[nia82]

My daughter has not been sleeping at night well since she hit 6 months... Our wonder week lasts 6 months I believe. I have a toddler too. We do the TV thing but now he is in preschool during her first nap and takes his nap during her second one. I have been working hard on a routine the past weeks and the naps are finally working now. Life is still hard with no sleep at night.... Despite all the tricks from the no cry sleep solution - I'm starting to believe it's developmental.

[rainbow_mandala]

Naps are hard.  Both of my kids don't like to take naps on their own for very long, unless they're really tired.  Just like when my son was a baby, I've gotten into the habit of carrying my 6-month-old in the Ergo while she sleeps.  This not only allows me to do other things, like play with my son, do dishes, etc., but it also enables her to sleep longer...probably because she feels warm and secure.  It's not the best solution, though, I have to admit...nothing is, I don't think, every method has its own pluses and minuses.  Napping in the carrier gets hard on the back and shoulders after awhile, especially as they get older (had to transition my son when he was about 18 months old), still have to be conscious of the noise level, although being in a carrier makes it easier to soothe them back to sleep if they are woken up a little by noise, and it's obviously not possible to play on the floor with your other kids while the baby is napping.  I prefer it, though, because they typically sleep much better and longer and I can still do other things while they're napping.