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Charting to Avoid/ Fertility Awareness September - Page 5

post #81 of 93

I have a question.

We are planning on using condoms until ovulation and then nothing (after 3 hight temps). Would you consider this as a safe method? I really do not want to get pregnant in the next 4-5 years. 

I assume there is very little chance to ovulate again when temps are nice high, am I right? 

 

TIA

post #82 of 93

 

Quote:
We are planning on using condoms until ovulation and then nothing (after 3 hight temps). Would you consider this as a safe method? I really do not want to get pregnant in the next 4-5 years.

 

Not an expert here (only a few months in), but I think that meets the rules of waiting for 3 high temp days. Only caveat is if your temps drop below coverline after they spike, I think you have to wait again. I can't remember why. But I considered post-O to be safe days too.

 

As for me, DH and I decided not to prevent this month (he's got baby fever more than I do, I think)... I'm near the end of the 2WW now. I think I'll probably keep charting so I know when the 2WW is, but we're probably going to be "whatevering" for awhile. Go figure, I finally got my schedule under control and started temping reliably. I'll probably still be lurking around these threads, as there is quite a wealth of knowledge around here! :-)

post #83 of 93
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by clavicula View Post

I have a question.

We are planning on using condoms until ovulation and then nothing (after 3 hight temps). Would you consider this as a safe method? I really do not want to get pregnant in the next 4-5 years. 

I assume there is very little chance to ovulate again when temps are nice high, am I right? 

 

TIA

 

I'd make sure those three high temps are also confirmed by drying up of your cervical mucous as well.  The idea behind using temperature in charting is that temperatures tend to go up following ovulation, but there's a risk that illness or environmental conditions could lead to high temperatures, leading you to think you've already ovulated and are safe when actually you aren't. Checking other signs such as cervical mucous and/or cervical position, openness, and texture can help you confirm that the high temps are truly a result of hormonal changes after ovulation and not a fluke.

 

TCOYF rules suggest waiting for four days of drying up and three days of high temps to consider yourself safe.(Note that for some women drying up means a switch from eggwhite to sticky or completely dry, while for others like me the mucous after ovulation tends to stay creamy.) I think the Kippleys allow a modification where if the third of the three temps is at least 4/10 of a degree above the pre-shift six you only have to have three drying days, or if all three of the temps are that high you can consider yourself safe with even fewer days of drying up (not sure on that one since it never applies to me). After that, yes, you should be safe to skip the condoms. You can also add another day if you feel the need to be extremely conservative.

 

I'm a condom fan, and condoms are the most effective barrier method available. However, the annual pregnancy rate for women who use condoms consistently and correctly as their only method of birth control is around 2-3%, and, while I don't know of any studies, I'd expect that rate to be somewhat higher among women who only use them during their fertile days since if there's a method failure then you know it's happening when the chance of getting pregnant is highest. Personally, I use spermicide as a back-up for condoms during my fertile phase since an unexpected pregnancy would be really challenging for me right now. It's up to you to decide what you are comfortable with.

 

 

post #84 of 93

Quote:

Originally Posted by clavicula View Post

I have a question.

We are planning on using condoms until ovulation and then nothing (after 3 hight temps). Would you consider this as a safe method? I really do not want to get pregnant in the next 4-5 years. 

I assume there is very little chance to ovulate again when temps are nice high, am I right? 

 

TIA


Check out this link for more information on using temperature only.  It is a very effective method, but do pay attention to things such as illness that can cause an artificial temp rise not related to ovulation.  It would be unusual that it would last 3 days unless you were really sick, but that seems to be the most common source of error with the temperature-only method.  I would also be careful about looking for a significant temperature rise, not just three "higher" temperatures, but 3 temperatures that are .4F (or .2C) above the highest of the previous 6.  If these conditions are met, I would consider temperature only to be a very safe method, over 99% effective.

 

Condoms, on the other hand, I have more concerns about.  The statistics on the efficacy of using condoms to prevent pregnancy are lower than for most other methods of family planning.  It is a well-known fact that using barrier methods during the fertile period greatly reduces the effectiveness of FAM (and makes it look a lot more like the statistics for condoms).  These are not FAM failures, per se.  They are condom failures.

 

With perfect use, a condom is 98% for a year.  When judged over the course of 5 years (.98^5x100), the condom is about 90.93% effective over the course of 5 years with perfect use.  That leaves almost a 1 in 10 chance that you would get pregnant using condoms perfectly for 5 years.  With typical use, a condom is 85% effective per year in preventing pregnancy.  Over the course of 5 years, it is only 44.37% effective.  You are more likely to become pregnant than not.  A lot of things affect the effectiveness of condoms, so it would be up to you to make a decision on that.  Most people get an effectiveness out of condoms that is somewhere between the perfect use and typical use numbers, but in general, condoms are not terribly effective in postponing pregnancy for a long period of time, and the risks should be considered seriously if you have a serious reason to avoid pregnancy for that whole time.

 

To be fair, the typical-use statistics for NFP (abstinence during the fertile period) are not that great either.  It is really something that works well (over 99% for the commonly-used methods) if the rules are followed perfectly, but DTD on the other days is exactly how you try for a baby, so if you don't follow the rules, you are very likely to end up pregnant.  Typical use estimates are usually close to 75% effectiveness per year, but with good knowledge of the methods and a healthy amount of sexual self-control, it is very easy to control your ability to get the perfect use effectiveness.

 

What I can't judge for you is how effective a method you need.  With what you are proposing, the effectiveness of the condoms is certainly the limiting factor (You are much more likely to get pregnant due to a condom failure than a temp-only method failure), so it's more about how safe you feel using condoms during your fertile period.  It should be noted that no method of birth control besides complete abstinence is 100% effective, and every time we choose to DTD, we are accepting whatever probability there is that we could become pregnant.  It's up to each couple to discern what effectiveness they need and take appropriate action.


Edited by JMJ - 9/27/11 at 2:37pm
post #85 of 93

Thanks, everyone for the useful info and the link! Will consider to abstain on those 5-6 days before O too. I like condoms and trust them (especially w/ spermicide use) but you are right it is not 100%. 

 

post #86 of 93

Wow, AF came this morning! So cool my body is working! I had a lutheal phase of 11 days, this is not long but after the pill I consider this awesome!

So cool my body is working! :) 

post #87 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by clavicula View Post

Wow, AF came this morning! So cool my body is working! I had a lutheal phase of 11 days, this is not long but after the pill I consider this awesome!

So cool my body is working! :) 



It is very cool! I loved that after I started charting, I knew exactly when AF was going to arrive (this saturday, for me). After a pregnancy wonder (I don't want to say scare, because we were both okay with it) last December, I decided it was worth charting to KNOW when I O'd, even if we were always using condoms. Especially because I tend towards longish (33-35 days) cycles and even a small amount of stress will delay O for me.

 

But then, fiance admitted last night that he wasn't going to go to the NFP class with me next week because he trusted me and well, he wouldn't really be upset if I did get pregnant. I've been the one saying I want a baby but now that we actually have wedding plans, he wants one! No babies until after May!

 

Now, I must go find a snack- serious PMS munchies. :)

post #88 of 93

Hello everyone,

 

I have not officially been on the list, but I have been lurking around this forum and have been charting to avoid for the last 7 months or so since my cycles returned after I finished breastfeeding our second.

 

I just wanted to share with everyone how spectacularly NFP has failed us as a contraceptive method! :)  We were not planning to have any more children. However, we realised that NFP is not as reliable as some other methods and have always said that it wouldn't be the end of the world if I was to get pregnant again.

 

I was following it correctly - no unprotected sex 7 days before ovulation and 3 days after. My cycles have always been very consistent, with ovulation at 19 DPO +/- 1 day and a 12-day luteal phase. Last month however I ovulated on day 15! The last time we had had unprotected sex was on day 10, and given that 5 days is the maximum amount of time sperm can live for I was not particularly concerned. But 19 DPO and several BFPs later I am definitely pregnant!

 

The inital shock is starting to wear off and giving way to joy :)  I think this is a clear case of us planning our lives in a certain way and God having different plans for us :)

 

I just wanted to share, partly because I'm getting quite excited now, but also to remind everyone that whilst NFP is very reliable in most cases, sometimes your body just does funny things to mess up the system...

post #89 of 93
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JuliMummy View Post

 

I was following it correctly - no unprotected sex 7 days before ovulation and 3 days after. My cycles have always been very consistent, with ovulation at 19 DPO +/- 1 day and a 12-day luteal phase. Last month however I ovulated on day 15! The last time we had had unprotected sex was on day 10, and given that 5 days is the maximum amount of time sperm can live for I was not particularly concerned. But 19 DPO and several BFPs later I am definitely pregnant!

 

The inital shock is starting to wear off and giving way to joy :)  I think this is a clear case of us planning our lives in a certain way and God having different plans for us :)

 

I just wanted to share, partly because I'm getting quite excited now, but also to remind everyone that whilst NFP is very reliable in most cases, sometimes your body just does funny things to mess up the system...


 

JuliMummy, glad you are finding joy in the new addition to your family. Out of curiosity, did you observe any cervical mucus on cycle day 10?

post #90 of 93

Julimummy, Congrats! Babes are always a blessing, even when you were expecting them.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by physics girl View Post

 

JuliMummy, glad you are finding joy in the new addition to your family. Out of curiosity, did you observe any cervical mucus on cycle day 10?

 

I wondered the exact same thing. Regardless of CD, we don't DTD without a barrier unless I am dry dry dry. No offense, Julimummy, I just wondered if this was method failure or user error.

 

 


 

 

post #91 of 93

Thank you! :)

 

You're probably right about the CM. I realise that it would have been more reliable if I'd been able to observe that a bit better, but my problem was that I always started having CM from a couple of days after my period finished and I could never quite tell the difference between the different sorts of CM. In hindsight, (and it does seem quite obvious now), I probably should have realised that I'm quite fertile and should have been more careful during the first half of the cycle, but I guess one is always wiser in retrospect...

 

On the other hand, I don't think my husband would have been very impressed if I'd told him that we should be using condoms for the whole of the first part of the cycle eyesroll.gif

post #92 of 93

Congratulations on your little miracle, JuliMummy!

 

Out of more curiosity, what was your earliest day of temperature rise?  If you have 6-12 cycles experience of temping, and CD 18 or even CD 17 was your first day of temperature rise, then this was indeed an NFP failure by a certain set of rules.  Dr. Doering's temperature-only rule is first day of temperature rise minus 7 is the last "safe" day.  You need at least 6 cycles of experience for this (which it sounds like you had), though the effectiveness can be increased by having 12 cycles.

 

By the sympto-thermal method (more effective than temperature-only), you would only use this rule if you were dry on a particular day and all the days leading up to it.  By this more conservative set of rules, it is not a method failure.  However, according to TAONFP 4th Edition, if you have a history of long cycles with all-the-time mucus and consistently have at least 5 (better to have 6) days of more-fertile mucus before your temperature rise, then you can use the Doering rule in the presence of less-fertile mucus, but do not ignore more-fertile type mucus.  I am curious as to whether or not you met the requirements for this STM rule since it is supposed to be very highly effective.

 

It is important to note that there are many ways to use NFP, and not all methods are equally effective, and no method is 100% effective besides strict abstinence.  You can't really say that NFP isn't as effective just because some sets of rules that you might choose are not as effective as some other methods of family planning because there are some sets of rules that are just as effective as the pill.  Nor can you say that somebody didn't have an NFP method failure just because they were not following the set of rules that you were taught.  There are many, many ways to practice NFP, and I really do encourage all of you to choose sets of rules that meet the effectiveness that you need for your own situation.  Not everybody needs a method that is over 99% effective.

post #93 of 93

Thank you, JMJ. My earliest ovulation was day 17, so that means temperature rise on day 18. Usually ovulation was on day 19, so we used protection from day 12 onwards. So yes, I agree, using the temperature only method you could call it a method failure. But in hindsight I probably should have paid more attention to CM.

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