When you're depression or anxious, can you name what's pulling you down?

[LynnS6]

OK, I'm going through a bad time. I've had a very bad week. I'm hoping things will look up, but so far, I'm in the same spot I was a week ago.

One thing people keep asking me is what is scaring me or making me sad. I can't tell them. I don't think it's one thing. Even when I lie in bed having panic attacks, it's not anything specific. It's more like I'll hear a child call out, and I'll get a rush of panic. Or a car door will close and I'll get a rush of panic. It makes no sense to me.

Is this normal? People keep telling me that the 'bad memories' are just being dragged out, but I don't have any identifiable bad memories. (Seriously, I wasn't abused as a child, I had a normal childhood, with parents who were argued but weren't bad. Overall it was happy. Nothing evil happened to me in my high school/college/young adult days either.)

I have bad feelings, but those are just those, feelings. It's the feelings that are triggering more bad feelings. Does that make sense? Can you identify what sets you off? I'm feeling like a mental health failure because I couldn't begin to identify what's going on.

(P.S. you'll know that I'm feeling better when I quit obsessively posting here.)

[mamapigeon]

  I'm sorry you're going through such a rough time!

I've recently figured out that my loneliness is causing my depression. I haven't had good friends in a long time and it's really hard to feel isolated.

I think it can take some time to figure out what's going on. I'm not really sure what "normal" is...

[Dmitrizmom]

 

Depression sucks.  No nice way to put it.  I know that most of my current depression issues are situational.  I have been living with my dh and 3 kids in my parents basement for almost 2 years.  I know that my siblings think that we are freeloaders. We are desperately trying to pay down some massive debt and get money saved to move out and into our own space again.  It doesn't help that dh has a very poor paying job; but he really likes it (and it doesn't make him severely clinically depressed - unlike most of the other jobs he's had).  It doesn't help that I don't have a consistent income as my business is pretty much dead and my other job is short term contracts (semester to semester).  Really, if either dh or I were to die, the remaining one would be massively better off in terms of finances. I hate pretty much every aspect of my life but my kids and dh.

[birdhappy85]

I think that's pretty normal with depression and anxiety to just feel down or anxious at times without having had a known trigger to spur it on. At least, in my world it's normal. I'd say most of the time I can pinpoint what is bringing me down, but there are certainly times when it just "happens" - like today. I had such a great past week and then all of a sudden I'm really down and teary today. I'm 30 weeks pregnant, so I know that my hormones have been causing me boatloads of problems, but I still can typically find an external cause that is contributing... like bad memories or negative interaction with my family or frustration over not feeling well, etc. I have a million stressors in my life that can contribute at any given time. I don't really know what's going on today, though. I just want to cry and cry. I know that I feel really frustrated, but I can't figure out exactly what to do about it when I don't know why I'm frustrated.

I'm sorry you're feeling so down. Could you possibly just have a chemical imbalance or hormonal issues that haven't been looked into? Besides being pregnant currently, I've had a lifelong thyroid problem and other health concerns (like food intolerances) that I know cause ups and downs in my mental state at any given time. Maybe you can investigate that further for yourself?

I hope you feel better soon!

[LynnS6]

thanks! I think it's just stress, accumulated, slowly over the last several years.

I'm seeing a new gynecologist on Thursday and will ask for my thyroid to be checked. He's supposed to specialize in hormone/mood-related issues with women, so I'm hoping he'll have some insight. I'm feeling a little better right now. Maybe increased meds are actually beginning to level me out?

[AllisonR]

People are asking you what makes you angry or sad because they do not UNDERSTAND MI at all. They are trying to be kind, but don't get it. Because if you answer XYZ makes me angry/sad, then they can verbally tell you how XYZ is minor, and therefore you can control your emotions to match that. Which you can not. If you could, you would have!  

When I get an attack, it is totally out of proportion to the actual trigger. Like you said - a child waking, a door slamming, whatever...  a "normal" person registers the sound, rolls over and falls back to sleep. In my brain, a chemical reaction is triggered and I end up wide awake and my heart beating like nuts. I can't just say it was a door slamming and roll over. If I could, I would have. And most people who have never been there just can NOT understand it. And my job is not to explain it or prove it to them or anything else. It isn't you job either.

For me sometimes it is sound, sometimes worry - I worry something about DS, which my logical mind can clearly, and at the time, put on the scale of 1 to 10 at a 3. So minor. Yet my thoughts, my heart rate, my tense muscles, my anxiety over it is an 8. Knowing it should be a 3 does not just make it a 3. My logical mind might be enough to pull it down to a 7, but I can not change my whole brain and body to be a 3. Why not? Because the chemicals in my brain, or whatever is the cause, is in charge of the show. 

You had a "normal" childhood. But you did have births as trigger events, for whatever reason. Maybe once that is happened, you are more susceptible to attacks in the present. Your brain becomes trained to it. Sort of like your body becomes trained to pregnancy. After your first baby everything firms back up nicely. But after your second, your boobs just produce milk so much faster, and your hips just hang out of shape because it is expecting this state now. After your third, OMG, not going there. OK, that was my experience anyway. I hope the example is clear for you. 

Have you done one of the mood charts - you know from manic at the top to depressed at the bottom, plus anxiety level...? Have you done a large one for your whole life? So instead of a row for each day, you have a row for each year? If not, make one. I JUST mine, and it was an eye-opener. I thought "I had a normal childhood...." but as I started looking at the dates and filling it out, a grand pattern emerged.

Wait - I think you should do this - but not now. Wait until you are in a somewhat neutral state. To get more accurate results.  

[AllisonR]

Originally Posted by LynnS6 

(P.S. you'll know that I'm feeling better when I quit obsessively posting here.)

Thanks. This made me laugh. 

[philomom]

Sometimes I know what set me off, sometime I don't. The main thing is to realize you are down and try to get help/ change behavior so you can feel better.

[LynnS6]

OK, good to know I'm normal.

Allison -- your words are incredibly insightful. I'm not trying to explain it to anyone right now, but really wondering if therapy would do me any good. I feel like anxiety is a great dry river bed. For much of my life, I've been able to easily get over it. But every once in a while, when I step in, it's not dry, but flooding and I get carried away in the flood. I'm floundering. And the more it happens, the quicker I go down because I've gone down that path before. Your analogy with 'baby body' is very apt. We didn't have a 3rd for many reasons, but my mental health while pregnant/postpartum was one factor.

I've never done a mood chart. Certainly never one for my whole life. I'm not sure I can remember that far back! Do you know of a good one?
 

Originally Posted by AllisonR 

People are asking you what makes you angry or sad because they do not UNDERSTAND MI at all. They are trying to be kind, but don't get it. Because if you answer XYZ makes me angry/sad, then they can verbally tell you how XYZ is minor, and therefore you can control your emotions to match that. Which you can not. If you could, you would have!  

When I get an attack, it is totally out of proportion to the actual trigger. Like you said - a child waking, a door slamming, whatever...  a "normal" person registers the sound, rolls over and falls back to sleep. In my brain, a chemical reaction is triggered and I end up wide awake and my heart beating like nuts. I can't just say it was a door slamming and roll over. If I could, I would have. And most people who have never been there just can NOT understand it. And my job is not to explain it or prove it to them or anything else. It isn't you job either.

For me sometimes it is sound, sometimes worry - I worry something about DS, which my logical mind can clearly, and at the time, put on the scale of 1 to 10 at a 3. So minor. Yet my thoughts, my heart rate, my tense muscles, my anxiety over it is an 8. Knowing it should be a 3 does not just make it a 3. My logical mind might be enough to pull it down to a 7, but I can not change my whole brain and body to be a 3. Why not? Because the chemicals in my brain, or whatever is the cause, is in charge of the show. 

You had a "normal" childhood. But you did have births as trigger events, for whatever reason. Maybe once that is happened, you are more susceptible to attacks in the present. Your brain becomes trained to it. Sort of like your body becomes trained to pregnancy. After your first baby everything firms back up nicely. But after your second, your boobs just produce milk so much faster, and your hips just hang out of shape because it is expecting this state now. After your third, OMG, not going there. OK, that was my experience anyway. I hope the example is clear for you. 

Have you done one of the mood charts - you know from manic at the top to depressed at the bottom, plus anxiety level...? Have you done a large one for your whole life? So instead of a row for each day, you have a row for each year? If not, make one. I JUST mine, and it was an eye-opener. I thought "I had a normal childhood...." but as I started looking at the dates and filling it out, a grand pattern emerged.

Wait - I think you should do this - but not now. Wait until you are in a somewhat neutral state. To get more accurate results.  

[EnchantedMamma]

I didn't believe I had anxiety for the longest time because there wasn't a specific thing that I was worried or upset about.

Finally I realized that anxiety, for me, just means that my brain is 'stuck in a loop' on things, so to speak. It's plain old brain over-activity and not necessarily thought-specific.

[birdhappy85]

Originally Posted by EnchantedMamma 

I didn't believe I had anxiety for the longest time because there wasn't a specific thing that I was worried or upset about.

Finally I realized that anxiety, for me, just means that my brain is 'stuck in a loop' on things, so to speak. It's plain old brain over-activity and not necessarily thought-specific.

That is such a good description for anxiety! That's how mine is a lot of the time, like my brain is just stuck in a loop and my thoughts are racing out of control. I should start explaining it to people like that when they say unhelpful things like "just don't worry about it" or they're just inconsiderate and think "mind over matter" is all that is needed to conquer the anxious mind... Yeah if it were that easy then I wouldn't have a problem, now would I?

[LynnS6]

Originally Posted by EnchantedMamma 

I didn't believe I had anxiety for the longest time because there wasn't a specific thing that I was worried or upset about.

Finally I realized that anxiety, for me, just means that my brain is 'stuck in a loop' on things, so to speak. It's plain old brain over-activity and not necessarily thought-specific.

Yes, this is a good way of describing it. I can't stop thinking about how I feel.

[Cyllya]

Originally Posted by EnchantedMamma 

I didn't believe I had anxiety for the longest time because there wasn't a specific thing that I was worried or upset about.

Finally I realized that anxiety, for me, just means that my brain is 'stuck in a loop' on things, so to speak. It's plain old brain over-activity and not necessarily thought-specific.

Yeah, as far as I can tell, having anxiety and depression when there isn't a specific thing that you're worried or upset about is the whole point of anxiety and depression disorders. I mean, if you're sad because your dog died or anxious because someone holding a weapon is giving you a dirty look, that's not really a sign of illness.

Of course, you can have something to be worried/upset about at the same time as you have brain-chemical-induced depression/anxiety, and that really sucks. It feels way worse than the same upsetting situation would be without the chemical depression/anxiety.

[birdhappy85]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyllya 

Yeah, as far as I can tell, having anxiety and depression when there isn't a specific thing that you're worried or upset about is the whole point of anxiety and depression disorders. I mean, if you're sad because your dog died or anxious because someone holding a weapon is giving you a dirty look, that's not really a sign of illness.

Of course, you can have something to be worried/upset about at the same time as you have brain-chemical-induced depression/anxiety, and that really sucks. It feels way worse than the same upsetting situation would be without the chemical depression/anxiety.

I have to respectfully disagree with you here, Cyllya. Anxiety and depression are often associated with actual life events and experiences that can be pinpointed. Anxiety and depression aren't always just because of chemical imbalances. That's how therapy without medication can improve symptoms. PTSD is a big cause of anxiety and depression. The events that caused the PTSD are often pinpointed. Growing up in an abusive or unstable household, for instance, can cause lifelong problems for a person. This is not a black and white issue.
 

[Hoopin' Mama]

I'm told in therapy not to ask for the "why" I'm feeling like I do, as it is not rational so there is no point in trying to put an explanation to it. I can't explain why I"m anxious but I have learned to identify my triggers and am trying to learn exactly what I need in that moment to ease the problem.

So, I think it's normal to not know why or what.

Some of you have given really good descriptions of anxiety.  

[Gator-mom]

Originally Posted by birdhappy85 

Quote:

I have to respectfully disagree with you here, Cyllya. Anxiety and depression are often associated with actual life events and experiences that can be pinpointed. Anxiety and depression aren't always just because of chemical imbalances. That's how therapy without medication can improve symptoms. PTSD is a big cause of anxiety and depression. The events that caused the PTSD are often pinpointed. Growing up in an abusive or unstable household, for instance, can cause lifelong problems for a person. This is not a black and white issue. 

What we have been told in my psych nursing class is that some people get situational depression/anxiety and some people have a genetic predisposition to it.  Another theory is like what AlissonR posted, that we can train ourselves to have certain thinking patterns and condition ourselves to have anxiety or depression.  I read a book called "Natural Prozac" this summer that talked about all the ways people can come to be depressed and how many of us who are depressed also have a lower threshold dealing with stress, which rolls over into anxiety.  It was explaining that many people who are genetically predisposed can't control whether they are depressed or not or it is much more easily triggered than someone without a predisposition.  He did say that you can do something about it, regardless of the "Why's" for why you have it.  It's major diet and exercise changes, but it seems to have good effects for anyone with mild to moderate depression and anxiety and if you wish to do something more naturally than just taking medication.

When I'm anxious I can usually name several things going on that are making me feel overwhelmed, but I notice that I get overwhelmed easily and I have a lot of thoughts just saying things like, "I'm too tired to deal with this" or "I can't handle this" or "I'm not good enough/smart enough/ect. to do this.."

[mumquest]

There is definitely a difference between situational depression/anxiety and chemical and both are real.  I have both (I think many people with chemical depressions have both) and I have had lots of time to figure out the difference!  I can usually tell when I'm feeling chemically depressed because I'll be sad/depressed for a period of time and not be able to pinpoint a cause.  That doesn't mean there isn't stress/hard situations happening, and even the same ones that overwhelm me and depress me other times.  But in those periods of time, it isn't caused by the situation, and I have learned how to tell the difference.  I also know that I have chemical depression because my mood changed overnight, literally, once I found the right meds.  It took me years, and many, many med trials that did little or no good before I found the exact match.  And it changed my life completely, in one day.  I have never been back to the place I was before that day, even though I still have many ups and downs. 

Also, for me, I could not make good use of therapy until I had the chemicals balanced.  Therapy kept me alive, got me through each day, but I could not really make any progress towards getting "better" until I had the right meds.  Once I did, I was able to do so much more with the skills I learned in therapy. 

[EnchantedMamma]

Excellent post mumquest!

I think I am in a similar boat.

I'd learned on my own to deal with situational anxiety quite well and assumed 'whatever' was wrong with me was no anxiety. And so I kept looking and looking and looking for answers. Couldn't find anything.

Finally put two and two together (a few comments here and there, my sleep study results, more research, etc) and realized that chemical anxiety (or what I think of as 'my brain won't shut off/up') was actually a real and serious thing that has a real and very large impact on my health.

It's kind of a phantom illness for me. So often I forget it's there, because I'm not mentally in a panic loop.

But yes, the two are both legit and can coexist. Situational anxiety obviously can come and go.

And pharmacological treatments seems to be necessary for me to handle the chemical anxiety. I'd love for it to be a willpower issue, but it's not.

On the other hand I do know that making my lifestyle as healthy as I can will benefit the chemical issues to a point and will contribute to help me cope with any situational anxiety that arises.

[EarthRootsStarSoul]

I like this thread.  I just had an anxiety attack that lasted four days.  I've been on Celexa for about 9 months and it has helped a lot. I've been very happy and productive.  I just had a breakthrough anxiety attack that spun out of control.  I think it was mostly physical.  I called it a sensory storm.  It was like a migraine without the headache.  Sounds, lights, and my clothes on my skin just felt hideous.  I felt dizzy, nauseous, and my skin was tingly.  I kept over-startling to sudden noises and movement in my peripheral vision.  It could have been based on my ASD sensory stuff.  I couldn't get my anxiety under control so the only way I could escape it was to force myself to sleep it off.  I woke up this morning feeling good finally.  I am so glad that is over.  Yuck, what was that??? 

[CookiePie]

Originally Posted by EnchantedMamma 

I didn't believe I had anxiety for the longest time because there wasn't a specific thing that I was worried or upset about.

Finally I realized that anxiety, for me, just means that my brain is 'stuck in a loop' on things, so to speak. It's plain old brain over-activity and not necessarily thought-specific.

You have said this well!  At times I can pin point my triggers, but many times I cannot.  DH can't understand why I'm feeling anxious if nothing happened to cause it, or I'm not thinking about something that bothers me.  I'm becoming a bit more aware of situations that tend to lead me into anxiety.  Once I'm in anxiety mode the littlest things will compile it.  Also I find that if I was anxious recently I'm much more likely to get anxious again.  Anyone else experience the same?