what is really owed?

[elevena true]

so, this is sort of a logistical and ethical question. (typing while pumping, forgive typos)

my daughter's preschool is lovely w/ wonderful people. when i signed her up, i was told there was a considerable opportunity for worktrade---otherwise i would not have committed to enrolling her. that worktrade fell through. then there was another w/t opportunity, but it was basically starting a small business, which i have no experience in.. at that time i also had major health problems and could not do the small business work trade. as the story goes, she continued going, i contributed the very little that i could, and nothing was said until almost the very end of the year. then the entire balance, minus what i contributed, without any w/trade, was requested as owed. i don't know what to do. i have a tiny new baby, no money coming in, and cannot make payments at this time. they are good people, have a sweet program, and i want them to succeed. that said, i do feel like i never agreed to this huge bill coming at me. the worktrade opportunities i was offered would magically disappear once i committed to them, and then there were the few other things that i really was not qualified for. any thoughts, advice, suggestions on how to handle this situation?

[ilovemygirl]

Did they really and truly lead you to believe that you would be able to work trade the entire balance? If not, wasn't it discussed/assumed you would owe the remaining balance?

They provided a service to you (one you seem to be quite pleased with) and they should certainly be compensated for it. It sounds like they gave you opportunities to work and you just didn't like them/they were out of your comfort zone/were hard to do with a baby.

[elevena true]

thanks for responding.

to clarify, yes, when i agreed to enroll my daughter, i was under the belief that i would be working for them running a parent's group one day a week in exchange for my childcare. the space they wanted to use for that ended up not being available once the summer rolled around. then another opportunity came up, and when i agreed to it it also vanished. the small business part--- out side of my scope, was willing to try but had terrible health issues in those two months. the baby was only just born, so i would have been able to do many things up until now. am i happy with the servcices? yes, absolutely. would i have committed if i knew the worktrade was not going to pan out? not a chance. i genuinely could not afford it then, and have even less to work with now. i am seeking unbiased opinions on what each of our responsibilities are, considering the circumstances. for the record, i have contributed what i have been able to...again, it's just not very much.

[swede]

Originally Posted by elevena true 

thanks for responding.

to clarify, yes, when i agreed to enroll my daughter, i was under the belief that i would be working for them running a parent's group one day a week in exchange for my childcare. the space they wanted to use for that ended up not being available once the summer rolled around. then another opportunity came up, and when i agreed to it it also vanished. the small business part--- out side of my scope, was willing to try but had terrible health issues in those two months. the baby was only just born, so i would have been able to do many things up until now. am i happy with the servcices? yes, absolutely. would i have committed if i knew the worktrade was not going to pan out? not a chance. i genuinely could not afford it then, and have even less to work with now. i am seeking unbiased opinions on what each of our responsibilities are, considering the circumstances. for the record, i have contributed what i have been able to...again, it's just not very much.

Can you talk to the director and say what you did here?  Specifically:

m i happy with the servcices? yes, absolutely. would i have committed if i knew the worktrade was not going to pan out? not a chance. i genuinely could not afford it then, and have even less to work with now

Maybe it will be worth it to them to come up with a different work trade.  I mean, if you really don't have any money, they just aren't going to get cash from you - the only way they can get anything of "value" is to come up with a suitable worktrade.

[MCsMom]

well . . . my personal opinion is that if you really want the program to succeed - you should at a minimum do the work trade now, while not using them as childcare and racking up more tuition expense that you already can not pay and do not have an agreement in writing with them about.  I can see how both sides can feel taken advantage of, you had your daughter there, said you would work, and then didn't - the school wants tuition.  You wanted to work, feel that for several reasons you were unable to do so, the school never mentioned a change in tuition being wanted at that time, so you didn't take your child out, and now don't want to pay tuition.    I think you should do the work if you have no means of paying the tuition.

I have done work trade in exchange for tuition in the past, and honestly it is not something that I would like to do again in the future.  So much that this year we are homeschooling our oldest to avoid tuition and work trade.  And the agreement really needs to be in writing and outlining what needs to be done for both sides.  In my experience, I feel like I put in MUCH more work then the amount of tuition waiver I was getting.

[ameliabedelia]

Well, I think they have every right to demand their money  . I think you should have clarified what was expected from you as far as tuition goes as soon as the work fell through.  I would not have assumed that they would just let it slide.   They provided a service (childcare) and you didn't do your agreed part (pay for that service..either with money or with worktrade). 

That said, if you can't pay, then hopefully you can work something out where you work it off some other way.

[lilyka]

I would talk to them about a payment plan.  Did it not occur to you that of you did not work they would want their tuition in cash?   You should have been more proactive about the work trade from the start.  That said they should have been more proactive about tuition from the start.  Once the work trade did not pan out they should have readdressed tuition so that you could find somewhere new if you needed to.  They should have been really clear that this was an if you  work we will deduct tuition.  It sounds more like they were promising everything would work out and they would find something.  In the mean time I would brain storm some ways to work for them along the lines of what they had originally suggested.  Maybe you can come up with something that benefits them and will cover your tuition. 

[ChristyMarie]

I am confused about one thing.  Did they not mention tuition to you this entire time and just gave you a bill at the end?  Because that just seems so odd.  I know we have the option of paying up front for a slight discount or making monthly payments.  But that is all set up at the time of enrollment and the payments start upon registration.  It would be quite shocking to not pay anything all year (term?) then be hit with a very large bill at the end.

[mattemma04]

Pay the bill.You kept sending your child there despite little income and knowing you were not working it off in trade.Make small payments monthly, and hope they do not send you to collections.

[swede]

Originally Posted by mattemma04 

Pay the bill.You kept sending your child there despite little income and knowing you were not working it off in trade.Make small payments monthly, and hope they do not send you to collections.

But why did the center wait until the end of the year to send her a bill??
 

[mrs joe bubby]

Originally Posted by elevena true 

so, this is sort of a logistical and ethical question. (typing while pumping, forgive typos)

my daughter's preschool is lovely w/ wonderful people. when i signed her up, i was told there was a considerable opportunity for worktrade---otherwise i would not have committed to enrolling her. that worktrade fell through. then there was another w/t opportunity, but it was basically starting a small business, which i have no experience in.. at that time i also had major health problems and could not do the small business work trade. as the story goes, she continued going, i contributed the very little that i could, and nothing was said until almost the very end of the year. then the entire balance, minus what i contributed, without any w/trade, was requested as owed. i don't know what to do. i have a tiny new baby, no money coming in, and cannot make payments at this time. they are good people, have a sweet program, and i want them to succeed. that said, i do feel like i never agreed to this huge bill coming at me. the worktrade opportunities i was offered would magically disappear once i committed to them, and then there were the few other things that i really was not qualified for. any thoughts, advice, suggestions on how to handle this situation?

I'm not sure why you feel this way? It sounds like you agreed to the bill when you signed up for the services. The WT opportunities would have helped bring the bill down but they were not guaranteed.

[Drummer's Wife]

Originally Posted by ChristyMarie 

I am confused about one thing.  Did they not mention tuition to you this entire time and just gave you a bill at the end?  Because that just seems so odd.  I know we have the option of paying up front for a slight discount or making monthly payments.  But that is all set up at the time of enrollment and the payments start upon registration.  It would be quite shocking to not pay anything all year (term?) then be hit with a very large bill at the end.

Yeah, all that.  We have the option to pay for the year upfront and save a small amount, or pay monthly (which we do).  I can't imagine sending my kid all year long and not clarifying with the school as far as payment arrangements. And actually, our program would never allow that as you can't even pay one day late w/o fees and risking losing a spot.  So, part of it is on the school b/c they didn't communicate with you and give you the option to drop out before incurring a huge fee - but, really, since you kept sending your kid and didn't pay, you absolutely owe the entire amount of the bill they sent.  

You owe it b/c the work trade deal never materialized.  It doesn't matter if it was b/c of them not offering that option for whatever reason or you not being able to do it for whatever reason - the deal was either you work to pay off the tuition each month or you pay for it like everyone else.  Since there was no work trade, you owe the money.  I guess at this point you are going to have to ask to see if they will set up a payment arrangement since you don't have the total amount to pay. 

[elevena true]

there are several questions/points that have come up, i'll do my best to clarify and answer questions.

there was never any contract signing, which perhaps is the biggest error here. upon agreeing to enroll, there was full disclosure and it was out on the table that i could not pay the full tuition, absolutely not a reality, and that i was being offered this specific w/t opportunity to cover almost the entire tuition because they wanted us to be a part of the school/community. then, that somehow changed; the w/t opportunity did not pan out for reasons outside of my control. there was another trade offered- just out of my ability (for ex, one cannot do a plumbing trade if one is not a plumber or knowledgable about plumbing. not unwillingness, inability). other w/t opportunities would come up, i would commit, and never be given any other communication or details about them, despite asking. they did not quite wait until the end of the year....about two months before? to start. there were small ways i was able to help throughout the year, and was able to work the balance down in that way, and i have also contributed financially as well.

as some posters seem to have misinterpreted, i did not just ride it out without contributing anything. i have contributed over a thousand dollars toward the tuition, plus put in time and energy. from the get-go, i was clear that i would not be able to pay the full tuition. they were very understanding about our financial situation, and wanted to make the school accessible. my original question is relevant to how responsible each of us should be, considering the financial full disclosure on my part from the beginning, and the promise and allure of work trade opportunities within my scope of ability/experience that would knock the bill down to almost nothing.

i'm thinking i will revisit the w/t with the teachers....though my kiddo is not at school this year, surely there will be some things that need done.

[A&A]

So what happens if you don't pay it?  Will they take you to small claims court?  Will you feel incredibly guilty?  What happens if you do pay it?  Will it wreck you financially?  Since nothing is down in a contract, I think you have to figure out the pros and cons of paying it at this point in time. 

[lilyka]

Ok I really think part of this is on the school.  They made promises they did not really keep.  However you should have been more proactive in clarifying ad you did use their service.  

So....Is it possible for you to continue to do wort trade over the summer?  Maybe you could be creative and offer something along the lines of the first offer and find a way to make that work.  The option would be to work with the school on paying it back in whatever amounts you can afford.  If it takes a long time so be it.  If they wanted their money fast they should have been mroe proactive in collecting it from you.

No matter what I would not send your dd back there unless you had the money to pay the tuition.  Work trade should be looked at as gravy or cash back.  These people seem a little irresponsible with work trade not realizing how vital it was to your ability to afford tuition.

[skreader]

I think it's pretty simple.

1) You owe the school for your daughter's tuition - either in labor or in cash

2) So, you need to speak to the school and work out a mutually agreeable way for you to pay, in either labor or cash. If in cash, it needs to be at a rate that won't beggar you. If in labor, in a way that won't enslave you. 

[Belia]

I think you owe the money.  Maybe there's a legal loophole, but morally and ethically you owe the money.  It was on you to make sure the w/t was adequate every step of the way.

[Smithie]

Here's an answer from the perspective of somebody who is responsible for a small preschool program: 

The director should never let things have get this far. You should have been receiving monthly invoices with a balance owed, and you should not have been allowed to accrue debt month after month while your daughter continued to attend. This was poor management on their part. 

However, since you asked for a special arrangement instead of being a regular paying customer, YOU should also have been more proactive about keeping on top of your balance, seeking worktrade opportunities, etc. No way should the amount of that final bill have been a surprise to you! Accounts in arrears HURT small preschools. It's not a high-profit-margin business. Please contact the director and work out a payment plan. I have a woman paying $20/month right now on her outstanding balance, and while it was the fault of a poor manager that allowed her to accrue this amount in the first place, and I don't in any way resent that she has to pay it off so slowly, I was very frustrated that she thought she could walk away from the debt once her child was gone from the school, and that I had to track her down and hassle her for money that she should have take the initiative to pay us. 

We preschool folk understand poverty. But we pay our bills even when we're broke, and we expect out families to make a payment plan and honor it if they get into arrears for whatever reason. 

[freestylemama]

I agree with Smithie.  DD has attended three preschools (we've recently moved) and none of them could afford to have people just not pay.  The Montessori she attended did do scholarships for kids whose parents couldn't afford the tuition, but those came out of a specific pot and were fundraised for separately from tuition.  

I think that at the very least, you need to call the director and offer to set up a payment or work plan.

[Ellien C]

Interesting problem. I'd like to hear more about the small business portion. Did THEY think you had the skills to do it? Also about the new baby - were you thinking that you would be in better shape for work trade after the birth? What did you anticipate would happen at that point? Just curious because I could hardly manage to pick my daughter up from school after I had the baby. I never would have imagined that I'd be in any shape to do a work-trade.

I do agree that you definitely owe them and they absolutely should have more pro-active about your balance. I'm wondering if they thought the small-business thing would work and are surprised that you declined to do that one.