Angry 4 year old (X post in Childhood years)

[MissE]

Mamas I need your help. I haven't been on the board in I don't know how long but I'm at my wits end with my 4.5 year old son. he was the easiest baby and toddler anyone can wish for but now at almost 5 years old he's started talking back, constantly not doing what i'm asking him to do, saying things like 'i'm gonna break our house/our car/ my toys/ hit my teacher" etc. He's refusing to get dressed in the morning, and to bed at night. Whatever I ask him to do I'll get a loud 'no' screamed back at me - with grinding teeth and fists raised - and he will do exactly the opposite.

It's so bad it's putting a strain on my marriage with my husband. I just want to cry. I feel like I'm mad at him (my son) all day, just yapping at him to do stuff to sit still, be quiet, clean up, put on clothes, put up his dishes etc. My husband is tired of hearing me yap all day, which is understandable. He tries to help out but often annoys me too. I just feel like i need some time off....I don't want to be with my kids and husband, i just want to be left alone and do absoltely NOTHING. It makes me sad to think that but  really don't know what else to do.

I hope I can get some advise here. I have talked to moms I hang out with and am horrified with their answers. i've heard anything from spankings with a belt to hot sauce and soap in his mouth which is NOT THE WAY I WANT TO RAISE MY KIDS. That's exactly what I'm trying to steer away from.

I have made a 'happy jar' for him where we put little marbles in when he behaves and take one out when he misbehaves. When the jar is full he gets a treat. well, we've only been doing it for three days and he has yet to 'earn' a marble. He doesn't seem to particularly care about it either.

Please help.

[philomom]

Just brainstorming here..

more physical activity for him, a gym class or something that might tire him out?

time outs?

a mother's helper that he likes?

or a young male sitter to show him how men act?

But yes, I feel your pain. I have a difficult child, too. The ones that are the hardest to love need our love the most.

[foreverinbluejeans]

You mention he has a teacher. Preschool or day care may be too stressful for him at 4. It sounds like your life might be very busy. You have a baby and maybe other kids.

You have a strong willed child. I had 3 of them and I now have a strong willed grandson that will turn 3 on Sunday. My son and I do well with my grandson because we have the skills to deal with him. His mother is having huge problems. It is so bad CPS is investigating her (neighbors called). A big problem is she thinks she is perfect and is unwilling to take suggestions or change. Her relationship is so bad with him that he is starting to reject her.

A great book is Without Spanking or Spoiling by Elizabeth Crary. It changed my life when it came out around 1980 when my oldest was a toddler. I knew I didn't want to parent the way I saw others parent but I didn't know what to do. There are newer editions of the book and she has written many books since. She has a web site and she has a method of parenting called Star Parenting.

The authoritative style of parenting is the most effective and is something that may be helpful to read about. Rewards (the reward jar) and punishment is authoritarian parenting and it isn't effective and you have already found it doesn't work with your son.

I suggest stopping the yelling and treating him very gently. That is what I do with my grandson. If I want him to get dressed I will let him choose between 2 or 3 shirts. If he doesn't choose because he wants to wear the shirt he has had on for 4 days I will choose for him. I will tell him he can help me get him dressed or I will do it for him. I catch him and do it gently. I choose my battles with him. I have a few rules and those are important. Don't hurt the dogs. Don't go outside by yourself. We do things like putting toys away together. I avoid using no and situations that will cause him to say no.

Try meditation. When you get good at it you can reach a meditative state quickly and 10 minutes of meditation can work wonders. Even a couple of minutes of deep breathing can help. Sometimes I feel like running away to San Diego and living on the Beach.

[Belia]

You sound like you're at the end of your rope, mama.  I'm so sorry.  

I would read "Playful Parenting" by Cohen.  You might need to do something radically different (and unexpected) to break this pattern that you have going with your son.  

Take him somewhere where he can run and tire himself out for a few days while you read the book.  Good luck.

[mamaupupup]

Ditto on Playful Parenting!  Ditto on getting outside and having him get some energy out.  I'm not sure where you live--but if you can find an outdoors preschool/kindergarten program like www.wyp.org that may help too.  The back of this book http://www.amazon.com/Coyotes-Guide-Connecting-Nature-Young/dp/1579940250/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1315427982&sr=8-1 has more programs listed.  The outdoors does amazing things for children (and adults!). 

Hang in there!

[chaimom]

Regarding the happy jar-- my boys loved one.  We did it for random acts of kindness.  I'd let them put a marble in a jar when I "caught" them doing something they were supposed to do.  They didn't even care when it was filled up-- they just liked being recognized for doing nice things or whatever "good" thing I noticed. If you can't find ANYTHING your son does right, I think there's a much bigger problem in your house than you've described. But I'll bet he's not as bad as all that. How about sitting down for dinner when asked?  Getting dressed?  Doing a good job brushing?  Talking without whining?  Picking up books?  Find the good things.  And ignore as many of the bad as you can.  Don't take marbles out when he does something bad.  It's not a behavior jar-- it's a happy jar, right?  Those "happies" still exist even if he makes a mistake-- don't take that away from him.   

We found the jar set a more positive tone.

[nina_yyc]

I have an angry 4yo too :)  Sometimes...she isn't always angry.  I've been dealing with it since the toddler years though.  I thought I was doing something wrong for the longest time but as my son gets older I'm starting to realize that it's her, she's just really strong willed.  DH and I are really strong willed too so I gotta own up to my part in this ;-)  Anyway just thought I would mention because letting go of the guilt and not trying so hard really help me deal with the situation at hand.

When my DD gets really cranky about doing X or Y a lot of times it's because she's looking for control over the situation so I've found it helpful to give her more independence.  I try to get her to do as much as possible for herself and have routines for things like getting dressed and getting ready to go and bedtime.  Each and every routine was really tough to establish and I usually had to use logical consequences because my DD tests EVERYTHING, but once the routine is in place life is good! Like when we were doing preschool, she always picked her clothes the night before and then in the morning she just dressed herself.  If she didn't want to get dressed or made it a hassle for me - no problem, we didn't go to school.  Now my DD loved school so she only got the consequence once.  For bedtime, if she wastes time I take it out of her book time.  Cleanup is a tough one but for a long time I would try to tie it into something that she wanted....so we had to clean up before X or Y.  

I try to treat the talking back thing as a separate issue and just correct her speech.  When she screams "NO!" I will say, "I think you mean no thank you" and a lot of times I can talk her down so we can problem-solve the situation together.  I think the threats and bargaining and such is an age thing - my DD does that and a lot of my friends' kids have around the same age.  I have actually tried to talk this one through with DD...what would happen if you really did put mama in jail?  How does it make sense to say you want to throw me out of the house and then ask me when lunch is ready?  We talk a lot about gentle/polite voices and if she doesn't back off of a nasty tone then she gets sent up to her room to calm down.

All that said...the most helpful thing for us is to make sure that DD gets enough family time and 1:1 attention from us.  A lot of the little tricks and strategies that I use have really helped in the moment but we don't seem to make any real progress unless she is getting what she needs.  It's easy to overlook her at this age because she is finally actually capable of entertaining herself and work actually takes less time when she helps, not more, so a lot is asked of her, especially since her brother is almost two and needs constant attention.  I don't know if this applies to you and your situation at all but thought I would share in case it helps.

Haven't read Playful Parenting but my favourites are Honey I Wrecked the Kids and How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk.