She has "deficits" - Page 2

[Dandelionkid]

Originally Posted by lindberg99 

I would be annoyed too. I remember I stopped in my son's first grade room for something (probably handing out memos for a PTO event) and his teacher launched in to how unorganized my son was. I know I did not ask her anything about DS, she brought it up out of the blue. There was no one else in the room (the kids were probably at art or gym) but I didn't like it even then. I think if a teacher wants to talk to you about your child, they should call you or set up a meeting, not just start talking about it where whoever is walking by can hear. I would have been more annoyed if she had done it in front of my son. I've seen our principal do this too, not in front of the child but in front of other parents. When the 6th graders went on a 3 day field trip, she started telling two of the moms who were there waiting how their daughters were the only ones who got homesick. I didn't think that was appropriate, yes it was a minor issue but all it takes is some parent overhearing it, telling her kid about it and that kid telling everyone in the class and next thing, those girls are getting teased for being homesick.

What were you talking about when she brought it up? Were you talking about your DD's reading, etc or were you talking about something else (like a class party or book fair or something)? The only thing I can think is that if you were talking about your DD's school work, maybe she thought it was okay to bring it up since you were talking about your DD in front of her? Parents at our elem school often bring their kids to conferences so some parents don't mind talking about their kid with the teacher in front of the child.

I had asked when we would have our first meeting and she brought this up. I realized today it is more than using the word "deficit" in front of dd, it is comparing her to her classmates in a negative way. I am not used to comparing her skills to other kids and, as a competitive person, it awakens the panic and anxiety in me that there is something wrong with her when I know, as her mother, that she is, and will be, progressing just fine along her own timetable. Comparisons are not helpful, imo, just tell me what she needs to work on. 

I'm glad this brief interaction happened so that I have an idea of how this teacher thinks and what might need to be discussed in the parent-teacher meeting.

[ollyoxenfree]

Originally Posted by Dandelionkid 

I had asked when we would have our first meeting and she brought this up. I realized today it is more than using the word "deficit" in front of dd, it is comparing her to her classmates in a negative way. I am not used to comparing her skills to other kids and, as a competitive person, it awakens the panic and anxiety in me that there is something wrong with her when I know, as her mother, that she is, and will be, progressing just fine along her own timetable. Comparisons are not helpful, imo, just tell me what she needs to work on. 

I'm glad this brief interaction happened so that I have an idea of how this teacher thinks and what might need to be discussed in the parent-teacher meeting.

I understand your view that comparisons aren't helpful and agree that as her mom, you don't really need them to help your dd. Looking at it from the teacher's perspective though, she's trying to develop lesson plans and classwork to accommodate every student in her class. She has to find the right teaching "target" in terms of kinds of desk work, independent and group work, books to discuss, etc. to keep 20 or 30 students learning and progressing. She has to make comparisons, otherwise she won't be doing her job to adjust for everyone's abilities. It's natural that these considerations are going to be in the background when she's thinking about her students and discussing them. I agree, however, that the discussions shouldn't take place casually and careful language should be used in front of students themselves. 

[loraxc]

Kids in second grade are expected to be reading fairly well and be able to write a paragraph with proper punctuation/spelling going in

Welllllll, I don't know. They are expected to know how to read simple books, yes, but paragraphs with proper punctuation and spelling? My DD attends a school for high-ability kids and those kids are definitely still working on punctuation, capitalization and spelling.

[meetoo]

Originally Posted by loraxc 



Welllllll, I don't know. They are expected to know how to read simple books, yes, but paragraphs with proper punctuation and spelling? My DD attends a school for high-ability kids and those kids are definitely still working on punctuation, capitalization and spelling.

I'm sorry, lol. Your right. By reading well I meant fluently reading books like Henry and mudge, Frog and Toad and Amelia Bedila. . Spelling is tricky I didn't mean everything they're spelling should be perfect.   They are expected to be writing short paragraphs with caps/punctuation and some proper spelling. I guess that would really vary depending on the school system what is being expected to be spelled properly. They also aren't expected to be perfect all the time but they should totally understand a period goes at the end of the sentence and a cap goes at the beginning.  I took the  OP to be saying t the child wasn't really writing letters(only caps) and basically was a non reader.  Slowly sounding out sentences would be an early, early, reader here, but again it could be relative. Who knows what the sentences are she is sounding out.......  I could have miss read it though. I'm sorry.

I also may have been a little bit  biased against the OP. It seems like  she asked the teacher how her DD was doing, in front of her DD, didn't like the answer and then got mad at the teacher for comparing her to other kids. Which really is the teachers job! She is expected to get the kids up to a certain set standard and part of that standard involves what kids typically know by a certain age........  I will bow out now apparently I'm a wee bit cranky.  

Edited by meetoo - 9/12/11 at 11:48am

[purslaine]

nm - also cranky.  

[One_Girl]

I would be livid if a teacher said something like that in front of my child.  My dd definitely knows that word though and even if your dd didn't she probably understood the intent.  If you initiated the conversation in front of your child though then I think that she may have thought you were okay with your child hearing whatever she had to say and suggest that you make an appointment for a private conference to get an update on your dd's progress next time.  If she initiated it I suggest letting her know you prefer to keep your conversations about your dd's shortcomings private.

[AllisonR]

Originally Posted by Dandelionkid 

 In any case, I don't want her to have a teacher that only sees her skill-set in comparison to her classmates skill-set. In my dd's case I know that the skills (reading and writing) will come easily  to her with more practice. I am more concerned that her teacher foster her love for learning and curiosity about the world than focusing on just getting the skills up to grade two level (whatever significance that has- every kid is so different!). I will try to keep an open-mind about this teacher until I can have a good meeting with her.

I graduated from a professional medical degree with the skills but very little common sense or critical-thinking ability. The skills (IV's, catheters, dressing changes) are easy to learn. Learning how to learn, how to love learning,  how to think critically and with an open-mind is far more important to me than a particular skill associated with a particular age. 

Have you told the teacher this? She can not "just know it"; she has 20-30 students, of which your daughter is one. In my view, the teacher is trying to give you a heads-up. You need to tell her you think your DDS reading and writing will come easily with more practice. Then you two can get on the same page, and develop a game-plan, if needed. 

[Zach'smom]

I would be annoyed too, especially since that is not what you brought up.  I guess a lot depends on how the teacher said it.  Was she trying to be nice and gives you a heads up or did it seem more like she was trying to be nasty to you and your dd?  Teachers are people and they make mistakes too.  I think she could have chosen better way of saying what she needed to tell you and did it privately.  

In public school kids need to be able to read at a certain level in order to function well in the classroom.  I remember when my son was in first.  They spent huge amounts of time getting everyone reading at a minimal level.  If they are not reading at a certain level it is going to spill over into everything.  They need to be able to read and understand those worksheets and science books and weekly readers, and math books in order to learn.  Unfortunately when you have 20 to 30+ kids in a classroom there are limits on how much you can tailor each child's education.  Call the teacher and ask for a private conference.  Find out what you can do at home and what they can do at school to help your daughter catch up.  At our school there are reading specialists that help the kids that are behind catch up.  Chances are your school offers something that can help get your daughter up to speed.  I'd also tell her that from now on if she has concerns to please set up a private meeting with you!!

[JudiAU]

I would give her the benefit of the doubt that she chose that word because she thought your daughter wouldn't understand it.

But I would think that you need to make more effort to help your daughter and the teacher (conference? tutoring? schedule?) to help her get to speed quickly. She won't be able to keep up if her skills are far behind and in 2nd grade, there is less time set aside for helping struggling readers. Many schools have leveled reader until the 2nd grade.

Teachers I think are often skeptical, perhaps from experience, with kids who enter the classroom with delays for whatever reason and then are told they will just "pick it up." She may or may not be able to "just pick it up" and I think the teacher was trying to make that clear. 

[grumpybear]

I guess for me, when I stay to ask questions, I think I'd have to mentally prepare myself to hear both positive and not so positive things about my child. Do you think that by staying to ask the teacher questions in front of your child, you sort of put yourself in that situation? I guess I am wondering how the teacher could have addressed what you were asking truthfully without it being offensive to you or your DD? I also made the mistake of asking the teacher how my son was doing and she did say things that really caught me off-guard just because it is not how I know my son to be. But I guess I learned my lesson in that next time I ask, I probably should be asking without my son being present because after all, I am expecting a truthful answer and not just praises for my son.
 

Originally Posted by Dandelionkid 

I homeschooled until this grade 2 year with my dtr. I'm not worried about where she is at but I told her teacher she was likely behind on reading and writing compared to the rest of the class (sounds out words and sentences slowly, prints mostly capitals) . Today I stayed to ask the teacher some questions and she told me in front of my daughter "she definitely has deficits compared to the other grade two kids". I'm fine with hearing that in private but I am angry that she would compare my daughter to the other kids in front of my daughter and use the word deficit. 

My dd never brought it up and seemed fine with it so I won't go any farther with it (I just told the teacher I wasn't worried about her progress as long as there was progression of some type because I knew she would pick it up). 

Would this make you angry too?

[Dandelionkid]

Originally Posted by grumpybear 

I guess for me, when I stay to ask questions, I think I'd have to mentally prepare myself to hear both positive and not so positive things about my child. Do you think that by staying to ask the teacher questions in front of your child, you sort of put yourself in that situation? I guess I am wondering how the teacher could have addressed what you were asking truthfully without it being offensive to you or your DD? I also made the mistake of asking the teacher how my son was doing and she did say things that really caught me off-guard just because it is not how I know my son to be. But I guess I learned my lesson in that next time I ask, I probably should be asking without my son being present because after all, I am expecting a truthful answer and not just praises for my son.
 

It seems I wasn't clear in my OP but I wasn't asking the teacher about how well DD was doing. I was asking her when the first parent/teacher meetings are- no mention of "how is dd doing?".  I can understand why she jumped to dd's performance but I will stop/delay the conversation until DD isn't present next time. 

Anyway, dd seems to be doing fine-  she needs to get caught up in her "binder work" at school which is mostly writing and she is really getting close to being at the same stage as the rest of the class.  She also told me that when the teacher isn't looking she gets to sit and think about things and doesn't have to do her work again until the teacher notices :) She has learned that one pretty quickly.  The parent/teacher meeting should be interesting.  

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by Dandelionkid It seems I wasn't clear in my OP but I wasn't asking the teacher about how well DD was doing. I was asking her when the first parent/teacher meetings are- no mention of "how is dd doing?".  I can understand why she jumped to dd's performance but I will stop/delay the conversation until DD isn't present next time. 

In that case I'd be a bit annoyed--though it seems that she assumed that was the information you were really after. I'd just be sure to mention that you do not want to discuss your dd's progress in front of her, then work out how frequently/by what method do it, until she is caught up (weekly notes home, e-mail, conferences only, etc...)

She also told me that when the teacher isn't looking she gets to sit and think about things and doesn't have to do her work again until the teacher notices :) She has learned that one pretty quickly.  The parent/teacher meeting should be interesting.

With my son (who can otherwise easily do the work) he knows that when his work is done he is free to do what he likes as long as it isn't disruptive/destructive (has been an issue in the past); so he actually gets more free time by doing his assignments first .

Edited by Emmeline II - 9/23/11 at 6:04am

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by Dandelionkid 

It seems I wasn't clear in my OP but I wasn't asking the teacher about how well DD was doing. I was asking her when the first parent/teacher meetings are- no mention of "how is dd doing?".  I can understand why she jumped to dd's performance but I will stop/delay the conversation until DD isn't present next time. 

At both the traditional public school my kids attended and the private progressive school they go to now, students are part of their conference. It's not a secret conversation about them. It's a dialogue about their strengths and weaknesses that includes them.

[melissa17s]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move 

At both the traditional public school my kids attended and the private progressive school they go to now, students are part of their conference. It's not a secret conversation about them. It's a dialogue about their strengths and weaknesses that includes them.

I think this is a good approach.  At our conferences, they have allowed us to bring the dc because we did not have childcare, and I think it is ok. When they have not come, I talk to them about the meeting anyway.  I have a kid who got behind and he knew it.  He was frustrated and he started worrying that he would be held back.  It actually relieved his fears to talk to the teacher and me about it.  Ever since he was put on medications with side effects, we have gone out of our way to communicate with the teachers.  Usually it right after school when I am picking up the kids, so they are right there.  For a while last year, dd was jealous because I would not go talk to her teacher about how she was doing.  

[Hoopin' Mama]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move 

At both the traditional public school my kids attended and the private progressive school they go to now, students are part of their conference. It's not a secret conversation about them. It's a dialogue about their strengths and weaknesses that includes them.

Here too, and I agree it's good that it's not a secret conversation about them.

Not really being to into standardized scores, I struggle with public school. But what I remind myself is that these teachers absolutely have to chart these things because they have to do their best to keep the kids up to level. We were notified about some new changes -  my son's class is the first class that will absolutely not be allowed to go onto fourth grade if they don't test at the appropriate reading level in third grade. That's a lot of pressure on teachers - they'd probably love more time to simply instill the love of learning.

[grumpybear]

In that case, I would probably ask her that in the future, conversations about my child be done in a way where my child is not present. And while I understand students being part of the conference, I would also be expecting that the teacher be mindful of the words she uses. There has to be a better word than deficit. Like maybe, "well, right now we'd like to focus on her working on her ____&____"  Then it is implied that she is deficient or behind in that area without using such a charged word. And no, you can't assume that the child does not understand the word "deficit" because my 5 year old understands that word. I asked him yesterday what if he knew what it meant and he said it meant "lacking or missing something". Not quite but he understands it pretty closely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dandelionkid 

It seems I wasn't clear in my OP but I wasn't asking the teacher about how well DD was doing. I was asking her when the first parent/teacher meetings are- no mention of "how is dd doing?".  I can understand why she jumped to dd's performance but I will stop/delay the conversation until DD isn't present next time. 

Anyway, dd seems to be doing fine-  she needs to get caught up in her "binder work" at school which is mostly writing and she is really getting close to being at the same stage as the rest of the class.  She also told me that when the teacher isn't looking she gets to sit and think about things and doesn't have to do her work again until the teacher notices :) She has learned that one pretty quickly.  The parent/teacher meeting should be interesting.  

[melissa17s]

Originally Posted by Hoopin' Mama 


We were notified about some new changes -  my son's class is the first class that will absolutely not be allowed to go onto fourth grade if they don't test at the appropriate reading level in third grade. That's a lot of pressure on teachers - they'd probably love more time to simply instill the love of learning.

I would have a problem with this.  Holding students back because of reading alone is a bad policy.  Here parents as well as school teacher/ admin have to agree to hold a student back.  

[Dandelionkid]

Originally Posted by Emmeline II 

In that case I'd be a bit annoyed--though it seems that she assumed that was the information you were really after. I'd just be sure to mention that you do not want to discuss your dd's progress in front of her, then work out how frequently/by what method do it, until she is caught up (weekly notes home, e-mail, conferences only, etc...)

With my son (who can otherwise easily do the work) he knows that when his work is done he is free to do what he likes as long as it isn't disruptive/destructive (has been an issue in the past); so he actually gets more free time by doing his assignments first .

This has been motivating to dd too, I think. Even with all the day-dreaming (and missing the second week for illness) she seems to be catching up pretty fast. She isn't allowed to work on her fun goals apparently until her "binder work"  is done so maybe this has helped her get caught up. I'm a big fan of day-dreaming though :)

[Hoopin' Mama]

It's not a school policy. It's state mandated. Our state kind of sucks.

[Hoopin' Mama]

Originally Posted by Hoopin' Mama 

It's not a school policy. It's state mandated. Our state kind of sucks.

Originally Posted by melissa17s 

I would have a problem with this.  Holding students back because of reading alone is a bad policy.  Here parents as well as school teacher/ admin have to agree to hold a student back.  

 Oops, I was replying to this.