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Thinking about telling a lie to my midwife.... - Page 2

post #21 of 39

In the end, you have to make a decision you are comfortable with. No type of natural induction has worked with my babies, and believe me I've tried it all. I firmly believe babies will come when they are ready, and not before. My children were born at 40+1, 40+2 and 40+2, respectively, at home. (I chart so I am quite certain of my dates.) In my opinion and experience, one cannot rely on induction as a fail-safe way of avoiding the bureaucracy. It seems foolhardy, more foolhardy than padding your dates. That said, I agree with pp's that two weeks of padding may be too much, unless, of course, you are like some of the other pp's with a family history and personal history of very "late" babies.

post #22 of 39

The truth is always the best way to go, for all of the reasons given here. Your midwife is risking a lot to attend you - she is owed the truth and truthful information.

I would not attend someone if I could not trust them, or have them me.

post #23 of 39

I would (and have) adjusted my dates for correctness because I always ovulate late.  I don't bother arguing with a regular ob about charting...I just give him the adjusted lmp date.  But, I lay it all out for my midwives, and go from there.  If they don't understand charting and the like, it isn't probable that we speak the same language in other areas either.

 

I think you ought to be honest with your midwife, both about your dates and your concerns.  Maybe she will document your dates differently, to work the system.  But, yeah...I think you ought to tell the truth. 

 

And fight at the end to not be induced.  Just don't go.

post #24 of 39

I also just wanted to add that in my practice, if someone straight out lies to me then that is grounds for our contract to be terminated immediately. It is important that women not hide medical issues, lie about due dates, try to hide things, etc if they want me to provide good care. I expect honesty and I provide honesty.

post #25 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by MidwifeErika View Post

I also just wanted to add that in my practice, if someone straight out lies to me then that is grounds for our contract to be terminated immediately. It is important that women not hide medical issues, lie about due dates, try to hide things, etc if they want me to provide good care. I expect honesty and I provide honesty.


And as long as you actually act on the information provided in a sensible manner (i.e. not insisting on using the LMP for a woman who has been charting and knows when she ovulated) then expecting honesty is pretty reasonable. My midwife got the whole story. The consulting perinatologist gets the relevant information... they ONLY ask about LMP, and utterly dismiss the idea that I know anything about my body, and thus they get the adjusted date, because what they need to know is how pregnant I am.

 

For those of us who don't ovulate on day 14 *and know it*, providing an accurate LMP to a provider who refuses to look at charting data is just so much garbage in, garbage out. 

 

Lying about an LMP when you know your O date is NOT lying about due date. It's providing MORE accurate information. 

 

Padding LMP by a week or two just in case to buy more time at term in someone who tends to run late-but-healthy, well, that's another kind of issue. If I were willing to see a care provider who would flat out risk someone out at 41 weeks, I'd be very, very tempted to pad by a week. Because the policy is wrong, and unscientifically based. But any caregiver that's going to risk out solely for being more than 1 week past the due date isn't going to be someone I trust anyway.

 

post #26 of 39

I think those of you who are advocating telling the truth, on the basis that if you can't trust your HCP with the truth about your 'due date'/LMP/ovulation date then you probably can't trust them about other stuff either are right.

 

However, you're forgetting that many many women simply don't have the option of finding a different HCP who will operate differently and be sensible about it, taking the relevant research into account (which, by the way, is that expectant management, or 'wait and see' is at least as safe as routine induction at 41 weeks).  If a woman is in a situation where she feels she should see a HCP, but doesn't have the choice about who she sees, why should she risk being forced into an induction at an arbitrary date in the name of 'complete honesty' with her HCP?  How many HCPs do you know who are completely honest with their clients about all the risks/benefits etc. of various tests, procedures etc.?

 

In an ideal world, we would be able to be completely honest, and know that we would get the same courtesy from our HCPs, who would objectively present all the information, research etc. and then respectfully allow us to make up our own minds about how to proceed, without trying to bully or pressure us into unwanted (and largely unnecessary) procedures, such as routine inductions. But I think we all know we're not living in that ideal world, nice as it would be.

post #27 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just1More View Post

I would (and have) adjusted my dates for correctness because I always ovulate late.  I don't bother arguing with a regular ob about charting...I just give him the adjusted lmp date.  But, I lay it all out for my midwives, and go from there.  If they don't understand charting and the like, it isn't probable that we speak the same language in other areas either.

 

I think you ought to be honest with your midwife, both about your dates and your concerns.  Maybe she will document your dates differently, to work the system.  But, yeah...I think you ought to tell the truth. 

 

And fight at the end to not be induced.  Just don't go.


I agree. I know I ovulate late and I can prove it with charts. I even proved my OB wrong during my last pregnancy when she told me I couldn't have ovulated when I said I did. 

 

Why not be honest? I wouldn't want my midwife to lie to me so I shouldn't be lying to her... that's my opinion anyway. 

 

As to the OP's last question, no... you will probably not be able to get away with an ultrasound at "20" weeks because they'll see your baby is smaller, and then that could open up a whole other can of worms. Plus, 20 weeks isn't a great time to check the placenta, it could be low then and move up as the pregnancy progresses.
 

 

post #28 of 39

 To be clear, if I were not willing to have a homebirth, I would have ZERO choice in health care provider among the medical establishment. There is ONE physician practice that will see me. ONE. And I'm fortunate that while he IS a high risk doc and takes the more interventive route more often than not, he also says, "this isn't jail, you have a choice".

post #29 of 39

Perhaps if we women were more honest, and they had the data on later babies, the culture around inducing at 41 weeks could be shifted by the mass of people having much later babies.  For that reason, it seems like having those willing to be honest and be recorded could be beneficial.  I've read plenty of stories from women in the last generation who went 6 weeks later than their due date!  There's very few pregnant women I know willing to take that step.

 

 

 

Quote:

However, you're forgetting that many many women simply don't have the option of finding a different HCP who will operate differently and be sensible about it, taking the relevant research into account (which, by the way, is that expectant management, or 'wait and see' is at least as safe as routine induction at 41 weeks).  If a woman is in a situation where she feels she should see a HCP, but doesn't have the choice about who she sees, why should she risk being forced into an induction at an arbitrary date in the name of 'complete honesty' with her HCP?  How many HCPs do you know who are completely honest with their clients about all the risks/benefits etc. of various tests, procedures etc.?

 

In an ideal world, we would be able to be completely honest, and know that we would get the same courtesy from our HCPs, who would objectively present all the information, research etc. and then respectfully allow us to make up our own minds about how to proceed, without trying to bully or pressure us into unwanted (and largely unnecessary) procedures, such as routine inductions. But I think we all know we're not living in that ideal world, nice as it would be.

This is true- we don't have enough options much of the time.  I took that attitude and approach with my first 2 pregnancies and labors.  But I also learned that those I cannot trust in prenatal care, I don't trust to labor with me.  My labors were strongly affected by the fear, interventions, and disconnect between a care provider who was not on the same page as me.  In my third pregnancy- I lied about dates.  But my first visit was so stressful and fearful for me, knowing I was being deceptive and not trusting those who cared for me anymore, that I cried on my way home and my husband made the call that we would pay for a homebirth.  

 

My homebirth midwife was a God-send on the LMP/Ovulation dates.  I showed her my charts, we talked very openly, and she let me go until, well, I went.  My second homebirth was with the same provider as she was so supportive, and it was by far my shortest labor because I trusted her, I could relax with her, and I lied about my dates to everyone else, but when my body was moving towards labor a month earlier than I had told people, she was very supportive, and even predicted the week I'd be due.  Having that support is amazing.  Being able to have women who trust women, who know pregnancy, labor, delivery and know how to be 'with' those in those phases, should be something available to all women in our culture.  

 

If you have to, lie, it's safer for the baby and you.  But if you have to lie, you really aren't putting yourself in the hands of people you should trust with that fragile, intimate and very intense and scary time of your life.  I do say scary- birth, especially labor never scared me, but there was the awareness of my own and my child's mortality and the fragile nature of us as humans.  After birth, I feel like the strongest creature in the world, and the most delicate, holding onto the strongest and most delicate!  Ah, the beauty of womanhood.  

post #30 of 39

There are worse things in life than induction or C-section.  I realize that is not the trendy view right now.  The dangers of going over your due date are real.  Those standards were built on the experiences of injuries to babies and families who learned the dangers the hard way.  That is hard earned knowledge. Don't cheapen it.

post #31 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by KmAndrews View Post

There are worse things in life than induction or C-section.  I realize that is not the trendy view right now.  The dangers of going over your due date are real.  Those standards were built on the experiences of injuries to babies and families who learned the dangers the hard way.  That is hard earned knowledge. Don't cheapen it.



And the dangers of birthing unnecessarily early due to inaccurate dating are also real, and frequently underestimated. Caregivers should not dismiss out of hand women's knowledge of their own cycles, when it is there. 

post #32 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by KmAndrews View Post

There are worse things in life than induction or C-section.  I realize that is not the trendy view right now.  The dangers of going over your due date are real.  Those standards were built on the experiences of injuries to babies and families who learned the dangers the hard way.  That is hard earned knowledge. Don't cheapen it.



I have to say, the 'trendy view' right now is C-sections.  The major groups addressing women's health issues are all saying the section rate is so high that the risks are more dangerous than the benefits.  They're setting goals to reduce the section rate for the safety of mothers and babies.  We've gone over the line on how often we section.  I believe part of it is the inductions at 39 weeks, or earlier, and this attitude that early births are somehow safer than full-term (which can vary from woman to woman depending on cycles).  

 

I think women should be honest with their caregivers, and caregivers should have the experience and knowledge to move forward.  Not many caregivers have experienced women delivering ANY babies after 42 weeks, but this does not mean that it is not a viable or healthy option for mother and child.  Choice needs to be given to the mothers.  Educated, aware, and supported choice.  Which is not currently a part of the system for many mothers.  

 

post #33 of 39

 . . .


Edited by KmAndrews - 1/2/12 at 4:50pm
post #34 of 39

 . . .


Edited by KmAndrews - 1/2/12 at 4:50pm
post #35 of 39

No good will come from being dishonest. 

Your midwife should be able to trust you as much as you trust her. 

Breaking that threatens her ability to do her job for you and whats more, a mistake/complication made due to 

dishonesty only HURTs the reputation of your midwife and of homebirthing as a whole. 

 

This is going to sound harsh and "uncaring", however, a birthplan isn't more important than a child. If your plan has you ready to lie 

the person who advocates for you and your own family, I would re-evaluate why you want this.

post #36 of 39

May I ask which country you are in? 

 

I'm in the UK and was told I wouldn't get supported to homebirth before 38 weeks or beyond 41+3. I started having contractions with my daughter at 37+4, I spent all morning on the phone arguing with midwives until they agreed that they would give me cover but of course by the time that was arranged the stress that stopped my contractions (she was eventually born at 39+4). I have a friend who dug in her heels and managed to successfully home waterbirth at 42+ weeks. I think she had to sign a waiver but she got her midwife cover in the end. 

post #37 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niniel View Post

May I ask which country you are in? 

 

I'm in the UK and was told I wouldn't get supported to homebirth before 38 weeks or beyond 41+3. I started having contractions with my daughter at 37+4, I spent all morning on the phone arguing with midwives until they agreed that they would give me cover but of course by the time that was arranged the stress that stopped my contractions (she was eventually born at 39+4). I have a friend who dug in her heels and managed to successfully home waterbirth at 42+ weeks. I think she had to sign a waiver but she got her midwife cover in the end. 


Not the OP - but I'm in the UK and managed to get support for a homebirth up to 43 weeks.  No waiver needed - but was lucky enough to have a very progressive and evidence-based head MW at the hospital who 'handed down the law' to the MW group I was with.  They weren't all totally happy with it, but had to go along.  The AIMS website and homebirth.org are good sites, and from what I understand, in the UK they are legally obliged to provide you with HB cover, regardless, if you've given them notice of your intention to birth at home.  But it generally takes quite a lot of balls, going by the stories there - e.g. being prepared to argue your case over the phone while in labour, and basically going into a stand-off with them.  

 

I picked up a few pamphlets in the hospital when I went in for the 20 week scan, and the one on postdates pregnancies actually stated that evidence showed it was at least as safe to go with expectant management up to 43 weeks as to induce at 41+3weeks - and that's the official policy.  Unofficially, of course, you'll get a lot of pressure to induce, just because... Oh, and in my area I was told that the MWs could come out to a HB any time after 37 weeks - so quite a lot of it is relatively arbitrary.

post #38 of 39

That's wonderful!  Glad you found a solution!

post #39 of 39

Another thread on this same subject, some slightly differing opinions and tone:

 

http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1336673/should-i-fudge-the-date-of-my-lmp

 

 

I have gone very late every time, so I have had to negotiate in a variety of ways depending on place, midwife and which pregnancy (first, last, etc). I was totally prepared to lie, but thankfully, I didn't have to with my current MW.

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