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punishing children by ruining other people's plans? - Page 2

post #21 of 81
I think it is good for everyone to be more mindful of ruining other's plans for a minor offense that could maybe have punishment handled differently, but also to have respect for and give the disciplining parent the benefit of the doubt too. I know I was usually disappointed in my friend for doing something to get grounded that ruined fun for us, but occasionally I would be mad at the parent(s) for grounding for something that seemed so minor. But looking back, I probably often did not have the full story either and even parent to parent I might not get the full story as some things are kept just between the family. So I do think there are folks who tend to overuse grounding as a punishment and should take plans of others into consideration, but I also try to give people the benefit of the doubt that they are doing what needs to be done for their family and I agree with others that there are situations where it is completely appropriate to ruin the plans of others because that is the appropriate consequence for the child.
post #22 of 81

Eh, it's happened to us a couple of times and I wasn't upset at the other parent. They were always apologetic when they called to tell me, and my response was always, "Oh, DS will be bummed, but I totally understand -- good for you for following through!" DS wasn't upset with the other parent for giving consequences either -- as another poster said, he was disappointed (appropriately, IMO) in his friend's behavior. 

 

I never issue a threat of not going somewhere fun unless it's very deserved and unless I fully intend on following through, and so far we've never had to cancel plans over stuff like that, but it could happen (it could have happened in the past if my kids hadn't decided to get their act together once I let them know that there was a chance we'd be staying home) and I hope my friends, knowing my character and parenting style, would know that it was for a damned good reason. 

 

Now, if I had a friend who arbitrarily threatened skipping fun activities at the drop of a hat and frequently cancelled on us over silly stuff, I can see how that'd be frustrating, and I'm sure there are parents out there who do that, but IME so far, my friends have been considerate of other parents and other kids, and have only used this consequence in situations that merited it. 

post #23 of 81
I haven't punished, but OTOH my older dd had tantrums until she was 5 or so, and I had to cancel at the last moment because she was in the midst of a tantrum that could last 45 minutes or so, and it just wasn't possible to go out. That isn't a far cry from canceling due to bad behavior as a punishment. I don't know how I feel, because on one hand, it is unfair to basically punish you as well, but OTOH if the child is having a bad day, the parent might know that play date/event won't go well anyway.
post #24 of 81
Quinalla, your daughter is beautiful!
post #25 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by ameliabedelia View Post

No, in this situation I do not think it is right to punish your child by also punishing other people.  I also believe it is really rude and inconsiderate to break plans unless someone gets sick or there is a family emergency or something like that.


yeahthat.gif I try to follow through on plans when others are counting on us.
post #26 of 81

is this for a 12 year old?

 

maybe for a younger child i would feel bad, but not for preteens and teens.

 

i mean i look around me and this is the 'norm' where i am.

 

while yeah it is disappointing, its not that big a deal for me.

 

heck i might be one of those parents myself when dd gets to that age being the person she is.

 

yeah it does suck but i would not find it rude. for me its sympathy for parents dealing with teenagers.

 

some parents are really good at dealing with teenagers. some are'nt. some struggle to be the best parent they try to be.

 

yeah we've had a few cancelled playdates and dd has been upset... but we found something to do to make her understand.

post #27 of 81

yeah lynn it would SUCK!!! i would be very disappointed for my own child. but being in the other parents shoes nor would i have let their son attend the party.

 

instead i would have done something later to make up for it. like had a special sleepover for the boys in whichever house it was convenient in later.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnS6 View Post

Something similar happened for ds' 7th birthday. His best friend was invited, and come the day to the party, his mother showed up to help, but ds' friend was at home. They'd grounded him from the party because he'd run away (around the block) when they'd told him to come home, and it took them 10-15 minutes (of sheer panic, I'm sure) to find him. But I was really ticked. Ds was really really looking forward to seeing this friend (they live across town) and was really disappointed when he didn't come. I was disappointed in his parents. I couldn't understand how making their son not come to ds' birthday party would help him learn not to run away.

 

But in the end, it wasn't my kid and it wasn't my discipline choice. I love his friend's parents, but they've made a number of parenting choices (especially discipline) that I wouldn't have.



 

post #28 of 81
Letting others down is tough to do but if my child needed to be grounded.. they would be grounded and I would stay home to make that grounding stick.
post #29 of 81

My seven-year-old ran away a few weeks ago and there's no way I would have loaded up the car after that to take him to a party.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TCMoulton View Post



I cannot imagine allowing my child to attend a party if he had purposely run away from home & hid from me as I frantically searched the neighborhood for that long for him.


 

post #30 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polliwog View Post

My seven-year-old ran away a few weeks ago and there's no way I would have loaded up the car after that to take him to a party.

 

Ah, but see, what I didn't make clear was that this wasn't an immediate consequence. He'd done the running off thing 3-4 days EARLIER. I don't blame them for a strong consequence, I blame them for not telling me ahead of time, AND for imposing a consequence that I didn't feel was at all related. And remember, this child was SIX, not twelve.

 

Truth be told, I have a really hard time with grounding as a discipline tool. The only time I can see using it is if a child has abused their privileges around being out. But most people I know who use grounding do it for things like not getting homework done, or sassing back. That kind of pure punishment seems pointless to me. I see nothing logical about those consequences. That's what bothered me about my son's party (the consequences didn't relate to the 'crime') and in the OP's situation, it seems to me that it was general punishment, not related to the outing at all.
 

 

post #31 of 81


Ohhh, thanks for clarifying. I agree with you about 90% of the time and had to double check who the poster was. I assumed it was the same day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnS6 View Post



 

Ah, but see, what I didn't make clear was that this wasn't an immediate consequence. He'd done the running off thing 3-4 days EARLIER. I don't blame them for a strong consequence, I blame them for not telling me ahead of time, AND for imposing a consequence that I didn't feel was at all related. And remember, this child was SIX, not twelve.

 

Truth be told, I have a really hard time with grounding as a discipline tool. The only time I can see using it is if a child has abused their privileges around being out. But most people I know who use grounding do it for things like not getting homework done, or sassing back. That kind of pure punishment seems pointless to me. I see nothing logical about those consequences. That's what bothered me about my son's party (the consequences didn't relate to the 'crime') and in the OP's situation, it seems to me that it was general punishment, not related to the outing at all.
 

 



 

post #32 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnS6 View Post

Ah, but see, what I didn't make clear was that this wasn't an immediate consequence. He'd done the running off thing 3-4 days EARLIER. I don't blame them for a strong consequence, I blame them for not telling me ahead of time, AND for imposing a consequence that I didn't feel was at all related. And remember, this child was SIX, not twelve.

yeah i get u. the bolded part would make me mad too. yeah i know a few friends who go over the top with imposing a consequence. one 10 year old had his xbox taken away for a YEAR. and there was nothing he did that was worth that level of grounding.

 

Truth be told, I have a really hard time with grounding as a discipline tool.  

me too. and yes i agree people overuse grounding. dd 9 has never been grounded from me. a lot of time bad behaviour is her way of coping. so i help her realise other ways of doing it. but she has never done anything, much to others rolling eyes, to ground her. 
 
 

 

post #33 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnS6 View Post

Truth be told, I have a really hard time with grounding as a discipline tool. The only time I can see using it is if a child has abused their privileges around being out. But most people I know who use grounding do it for things like not getting homework done, or sassing back. That kind of pure punishment seems pointless to me. I see nothing logical about those consequences.


I'm with you. I grounded ds1 once, when he was 12 - he got home from school at 7:15 (his school got out at 2:40), and we'd had no word from him about where he was or who he was with. Grounding seemed appropriate in that situation. OTOH, he had a friend who got grounded for everything...not finishing his lunch at school, forgetting to take his ADD medication, not doing homework, and I can't even remember the rest of it. I think he spent half his teens grounded for something, and it almost never had anything to do with something he'd done while he was out of the house.

post #34 of 81

So much depends on the exact circumstances -- ages of children, degree of planning/depending on someone else, amount of advanced notice would all make a difference.  I would have to take it case-by-case when it involved my child and another child.

 

However, I had a regular (every Thurs. evening) teen babysitter for a while who was routinely grounded from sitting for us at the last minute -- I think mostly for not finishing her homework, which she could easily have done while she was watching my kids do their own work that evening, plus our evening was done at 9 PM and she could have finished after that.  I could not for the life of my understand how you could keep a teen from a job, especially when that meant that 2 adults also missed their obligations due to last minute sitter cancellation.  After it happened the third time in two months I was forced to fire sitter.  I was so angry at the parents for being inconsiderate.

post #35 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan&Anna's_Mom View Post

However, I had a regular (every Thurs. evening) teen babysitter for a while who was routinely grounded from sitting for us at the last minute -- I think mostly for not finishing her homework, which she could easily have done while she was watching my kids do their own work that evening, plus our evening was done at 9 PM and she could have finished after that.  I could not for the life of my understand how you could keep a teen from a job, especially when that meant that 2 adults also missed their obligations due to last minute sitter cancellation.  After it happened the third time in two months I was forced to fire sitter.  I was so angry at the parents for being inconsiderate.


Wow. That's odd.

 

We used to have a sitter who lived next door to us and was often grounded (in her case, it was usually very reasonable), but our house was one of the few places she was allowed to come when she was grounded. She used to come over and just talk and hang out when she wasn't even sitting.

 

Her mother thought I was a good influence. wink1.gif

 

post #36 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan&Anna's_Mom View Post

I could not for the life of my understand how you could keep a teen from a job, especially when that meant that 2 adults also missed their obligations due to last minute sitter cancellation.  After it happened the third time in two months I was forced to fire sitter.  I was so angry at the parents for being inconsiderate.

Your anger was misplaced. You should have been angry at the sitter, her actions made her unavailable to sit for you. She knew the consequences of her actions and she made the choice to mess up... you should be happy other parents are trying to keep their kids in line.
post #37 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by philomom View Post



Your anger was misplaced. You should have been angry at the sitter, her actions made her unavailable to sit for you. She knew the consequences of her actions and she made the choice to mess up... you should be happy other parents are trying to keep their kids in line.


Dang, I wish someone would ground me from working!  orngbiggrin.gif   That aside, I still think the parents are ultimately responsible for the type of grounding, and the effect of grounding her from babysitting was essentially handing out punishment to third parties who were relying on the babysitter's services.  I've been in situations where I've need childcare and there is a different set of ramifications when someone doesn't pull through.  I put that on a different level than playdates and birthday parties.  I don't argue with the point that her actions made her unavailable to sit for the PP, but the parents could have been a little more sensitive about the results.  They were the ones in control of the means and methods.
 

 

post #38 of 81

Wow, I totally would not be offended/mad at parents doing what they think is best to deal with their child's behavior.  I don't see it at all as "punishing my kid", even though my kid may well be and has been disappointed by a change in plans.

 

I also take responsibility to know my kids' friends' parents patterns as best I can.  There are many who would only cancel if something serious was really up.  Then there are those who can't be bothered to be on time or call if they're going to be 2 hours late or not show up at all.  Basically I communicate to my kid about plans depending on who I'm dealing with, and with the parents who are regularly cancelling, I either don't tell DD at all that we might meet up with them (and if we do it's a nice suprise) OR I tell her it MIGHT happen but it also might not.  Or... I just stop making plans with those parents.

 

I find most parents are on the side of only cancelling if they really feel like their kid either can't play nicely when they show up, or their kid had choices, consequences were explained ahead of time, and their kid made choices that meant they now didn't get to play with my kid.  I am NOT mad at the parents for that, I think that's fair and really the point is only going to be made about consequences if the child loses something they actually care about.  That choice is simply not about me and dd, although I appreciate greatly when parents do take that into consideration (i.e. inviting dd over for another playdate at the time they cancel).

 

The whole "grounding the sitter" thing really is weird to me though, that seems to be about more than just discipline, unless there is a regular pattern of that child not doing homework even when she knows it will mean she can't babysit.  But that is an actual work situation too and in *that* case I do think the parents should realize that in a way there is a contract there between the parents and the sitter, and the other parents are relying on that agreement to go somewhere... that seems like maybe not the best way to punish.

post #39 of 81

My ex-SIL used to do this all the time. In her case, I think many of the issues were hers. It was her way of controlling our family's interaction with her kids.

 

 

post #40 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubidoux View Post

I think it is rude and would be a big deal to me.  My kids are young, so their friends are not being grounded yet, so I haven't run into it the way you're describing.  But, I have, plenty of times, gone to a play date and had the other parent threaten to leave if their child doesn't do whatever.  Nine times out of ten, I've learned, parents don't follow through with those kinds of threats (a whole 'nother problem), but there have been a couple of times that we were burned when the parent did follow through.  It was so disappointing to my ds.  :(

 

I HATE this. I have one really good friend who does this all the time. And you know, what, I think I'm going to say something to her about it. It's just rude to me and my son. Especially because we live out of state and they don't see each other that much. If the behavior is really that bad, then you should actually leave when you threaten it. But it's not over really bad stuff, it's just stuff that is annoying to her. 

 

 

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