Did you see this?

[Triniity]

Here, have a look. 

I am a bit outraged. What do you think? 

http://skepticalob.blogspot.com/2011/09/fill-in-blanks.html

 

 

Edited by Triniity - 9/10/11 at 9:30am

[Imakcerka]

If you read the comments section, it's obvious the followers are of the lower intelligence spectrum.  People who make fun of others, or appear to have a useless vendetta are all LOW ASVABS! 

Of course most people appreciate division, division gives them power and their refusal to be nice when trying to educate their beliefs pretty much states they're inability to understand anything other than crayons and constuction paper.  I say we leave it at that and don't get bent out of shape over their personal problems.

[Magdalen1978]

This woman is well-known as a rabid anti-homebirth activist.  What a pain she is.  Her writing is so phenomenally unprofessional -- I cannot imagine what she must be like to work with.  Yikes! 

My fave post is the one claiming that attachment parenting causes autism.  Ohhkayyy...

[starrlamia]

sad that people have so much time on their hands. While I can understand some of what they are saying, they are just as ignorant as some of the stuff they talk about... It's too bad most of them know nothing about the science behind pregnancy/birth and havent taken the time to actually read studies to understand it all.

[Imakcerka]

It's what people do, make fun of things they do not understand.

[jeminijad]

Ladies... you are honestly creating fodder for them. Let me explain why.

Originally Posted by Imakcerka 

If you read the comments section, it's obvious the followers are of the lower intelligence spectrum.  People who make fun of others, or appear to have a useless vendetta are all LOW ASVABS! 

.

Lower intelligence spectrum? I realize this particular blogger is hated here, but many of the regular commenters are physicians, researchers, and other highly educated & intelligent folks. Its just where they let their hair down. I read it to try and stay balanced.
 

Originally Posted by Magdalen1978 

This woman is well-known as a rabid anti-homebirth activist.  What a pain she is.  Her writing is so phenomenally unprofessional -- I cannot imagine what she must be like to work with.  Yikes! 

My fave post is the one claiming that attachment parenting causes autism.  Ohhkayyy...

The post on attachment parenting causing autism is satire. Read the comment section... they wondered how many MDC readers wouldn't understand that. Guess they were right.

 

Originally Posted by starrlamia 

sad that people have so much time on their hands. While I can understand some of what they are saying, they are just as ignorant as some of the stuff they talk about... It's too bad most of them know nothing about the science behind pregnancy/birth and havent taken the time to actually read studies to understand it all.

They know far more of the science than some of the posters here. I see more rampant cherry picking and misinterpretation here than on science blogs, where there are professionals that understand the methods & interpretations (as opposed to skimming abstracts) and can keep each other honest.
 

Originally Posted by Imakcerka 

It's what people do, make fun of things they do not understand.

They do understand. There is a sizeable contingent of those who used to be of a 'trust birth' mindset, till they encountered poorly trained practitioners and were treated terribly after their bad birth outcomes.

I do realize that this may get be disciplined or what have you, but open your eyes, ladies. They ain't all bad. The reason the post initially referenced is upsetting is because it is very, very true. How many completely unsuitable homebirth candidates are choosing to put their trust, and their babies' lives, into the hands of lay practitioners that have no professional accountability? How many posts start exactly like that? Sometimes, they end up with a dead baby... but that quickly gets sanitized, here at MDC. For every homebirth death that remains here, there was another removed.

[Imakcerka]

Jeminijad,

Why is it okay for them to use a personal situation and make fun of it? Not a meaningless one either. How does that educate? It doesn't. Never has never will. If women need to know more than by all means make a positive push to teach rather than hurt others. Why would I call them idiots? Only idiots would use a situation such as that and with cruel intent blast their beliefs.

Should some women choose a better/safer option? Yes, should they be shamed after a poor decision? NO, unless you feel it's okay to kick someone when they're down.

By all means, back those who love to hurt and laugh at other peoples pain.

[jeminijad]

Originally Posted by Imakcerka 

Jeminijad,

Why is it okay for them to use a personal situation and make fun of it? Not a meaningless one either. How does that educate? It doesn't. Never has never will. If women need to know more than by all means make a positive push to teach rather than hurt others. Why would I call them idiots? Only idiots would use a situation such as that and with cruel intent blast their beliefs.

Should some women choose a better/safer option? Yes, should they be shamed after a poor decision? NO, unless you feel it's okay to kick someone when they're down.

By all means, back those who love to hurt and laugh at other peoples pain.


 

If it isn't pointed out, no one knows.

The idea there (and in quite a few places) is that it is better to potentially save babies, even if feelings are hurt.

[Triniity]

Jeminijad, 

I can´t quite agree, I am a professional, and am treating the "bad outcome" babies, but I do not see this kind of posts helpful at.all. I am quite sure that you would get severe problems with our doctors society down here if you would posts things like that. 

I want to keep homebirth safe for moms and babies, and encourage breastfeeding, and I got flamed from LLL for being professional and *gasp* start working in my professional field after the first birthday of my child, but I still don´t think that ranting like that and making fun of other people will get you anywhere. It will just turn the people that you "want" to help or keep safe away from you, so you actually make them go to a bad provider instead of helping them to look through all the data. 

The problem with this post is, that it´s not only about unsafe homebirth problems, it makes fun of every human beings  considering different options about themselves at any time.

It´s a bit difficult for me to explain what I mean, since english is only my second language. I hope you understand me. 

[jenniferlynne]

This is a tough one.  I know my opinion won't be popular here, but I agree with this:
 

Originally Posted by jeminijad 

If it isn't pointed out, no one knows.

The idea there (and in quite a few places) is that it is better to potentially save babies, even if feelings are hurt.

I have read the Skeptical OB and while at first I was shocked by some of her posts and offended by her tone, there IS a kernel of truth to them.  As jeminijad said above, there are women here who are blindly trusting in birth, their bodies and their birth "professionals,"* even when their particular situations put them and their babies at significant risk.  Every time I read a post such as that mocked on SOB--and I have seen them here several times--I cringe and I worry about that mama and her baby.  Yet, here at MDC, so often these women are encouraged to go ahead with their plans despite the risks.  And that is not okay.  While I agree that the SOB site can be mean-spirited, I firmly believe that if it spreads awareness of the risks of homebirth* (and don't flame me here, HB just isn't safe in every single situation!), and prevents even one bad outcome, then it's worth the hurt feelings.  As to the tone turning away the very people the site is meant to reach?  Well, maybe that's true... and it's a problem.      

* Let me reiterate that I do support HBs BUT only in appropriate situations -- a healthy, low-risk pregnancy with a well-trained professional.  The cases of loss due to midwife negligence, unpreparedness or ignorance infuriate me.

[Mom2M]

Thanks for the link.

[starrlamia]

jemini- i have to partially disagree, what they are making fun of they do themselves in practice, they also cherry pick which studies to base their practice on and from this post and others doesnt seem like they go out of their way whatsoever to learn about the otherside of birth that obstetrics is lacking. Saving babies is fine its what all birth professionals do, but most babies dont need saving, and denying women the right to have a positive and empowering birth experience is ignorant and selfish, these people obviously have no clue how birth can be when not over medicalized.

Also, to point out, seeing as this a fairly popular blog, I highly doubt the majority of people posting comments and reading it are actual professionals. I also really like how they are pulling stuff from this thread and posting it to laugh at. Go for it! If you are to cowardly to let me know what you think of my posts then I have no use for you :)

[sosurreal09]

You should never read anything by Amy she is a psycho. She goes around searching HB sites and tells everyone their baby will die...she's real mature!

[starrlamia]

i dont think it is appropriate to call her psycho, but if that is what she does it is unfortunate.

Originally Posted by sosurreal09 

You should never read anything by Amy she is a psycho. She goes around searching HB sites and tells everyone their baby will die...she's real mature!

[Magdalen1978]

I did, in fact, realize that the post on attachment parenting and autism was satirical -- which does not make it any less absurd and obnoxious.  Thanks, Jeminijad, for your snarky suggestion that I did not grasp this woman's intent.  Oh, by the way, that was sarcasm I just used.

I agree with other posters that this woman's tone is thoroughly inappropriate.  It's one thing to suggest that homebirth should take place under particular conditions and with the appropriate safety measures in place, and that homebirth is in fact not a good idea for some moms and babies.  It is another thing entirely to mock an entire way of thinking and deride a very diverse group of women because they make choices that contradict her particular understanding of science and data analysis. 

[sosurreal09]

Well OK guess I shouldn't have called her that but seriously I'm sure you haven't seen what a jerk she truly is. She commented on a blog that a woman wrote on HB and it included Ina

May. This Amy woman flipped out calling all HBers baby killers and said Ina May has killed lots of babies including her own....that is wrong on so many levels...she literally searches for blogs and articles to bash the posts...

She has said really offensive things. She commented that Ricki Lake should die b/c of all the babies she's killed with her movie...this woman also has a sort of online posse that follows her around agrees with her on all her posts.

[starrlamia]

well, that is all the more reason to speak out against her appropriately, you cant fight ignorance with ignorance (not calling you ignorant), and to truly stand out amongst immature and ignorant people you need to speak maturely and accurately, IMO. I was reading up on Henci's board and she stated that they couldnt find confirmation of her education or experience, I think she is either a fraud, or overinflates her experiences, she also "retired" as an OB to have her children... and yet she finished school in 1984... and somehow claims to have delivered over 1000 babies(thousands i believe is the term used)... Her claims dont add up, she graduated in 84 and retired to have children, yet a picture of her children in 1998 shows a group of kids who look to range from age 3-10... so she retired in 1989? and delivered over a 1000 babies in 5 years? thats 200-400 a year. The woman is a sensationalist who either thinks to highly of herself or purposely insites controversy to get attention and make money. Pretty sad.
 

Originally Posted by sosurreal09 

Well OK guess I shouldn't have called her that but seriously I'm sure you haven't seen what a jerk she truly is. She commented on a blog that a woman wrote on HB and it included Ina

May. This Amy woman flipped out calling all HBers baby killers and said Ina May has killed lots of babies including her own....that is wrong on so many levels...she literally searches for blogs and articles to bash the posts...

She has said really offensive things. She commented that Ricki Lake should die b/c of all the babies she's killed with her movie...this woman also has a sort of online posse that follows her around agrees with her on all her posts.

[sosurreal09]

Well sure you are right but I never have gotten into it with this woman b/c I was pre-warned...I just thing the whole thing is sick.

[SympatheticDad]

Originally Posted by starrlamia 
 and delivered over a 1000 babies in 5 years? thats 200-400 a year. 

Any OB/GYN resident working in a busy teaching hospital will see 20 to 40 deliveries per week.  1000 babies in 5 years sounds perfectly plausible to me.

It's possible that this gap in experience between OB/GYNs and many homebirth midwives is part of where the gap in understanding comes from.  To someone who has only delivered 40 or 50 babies ever, a "1 in 500" chance might sound low.  To someone who has delivered a thousand babies, "1 in 500" translates directly to 2 dead babies and 2 grieving mothers that you've seen with your own eyes, and is a situation you must be prepared for.

[starrlamia]

true, depends on how busy the hospital is and how you practice. Im used to OBs who are not hospital based but work in independent clinics. Thanks for pointing that out :)

 

Originally Posted by SympatheticDad 

Any OB/GYN resident working in a busy teaching hospital will see 20 to 40 deliveries per week.  1000 babies in 5 years sounds perfectly plausible to me.

It's possible that this gap in experience between OB/GYNs and many homebirth midwives is part of where the gap in understanding comes from.  To someone who has only delivered 40 or 50 babies ever, a "1 in 500" chance might sound low.  To someone who has delivered a thousand babies, "1 in 500" translates directly to 2 dead babies and 2 grieving mothers that you've seen with your own eyes, and is a situation you must be prepared for.