Violence

[goobergrl6]

I think I am about to hit my breaking point! I am just LOST! My 5 yo has SPD, speech delay, and we are pretty sure ODD (doc wants to see him one more time before he makes it official). He started K this year in a regular classroom at a new school. He was special ed the last 2 years. I knew the adjustment would be rough but never THIS rough! A month or so before school started he started with the violence. Mostly just me when I would put him in time out for something. Hitting, scratching, clawing, kicking ect. We have that almost worked out. Instead of time out I just carry him up to his room. However the violence at school is starting! He has a tendancy to throw things when he is mad. He has been removed from class 3 times for being a danger to himself or others. (Just want to add his teacher is WONDERFUL! I can only wish all kids could have such a wonderful teacher). So anyway the first time he was upset and threw a pair of scissors (he throws the closest thing he can reach), the other time was for kicking a desk and kid (again he was on the floor fitting and they were close), and the 3rd time for throwing a chair. Well today topped the cake! He did not want to go to school (yet again) so once again I had to put him on the bus. Usually he is fine after a couple bus stops but today the bus driver had to pull over and call the school! He was trying to kick out the window! So his para met the bus and he started kicking her! They had to evacuate the bus!!!!!!!! Then they called the assistant principal from the meeting he was holding, and another teacher to remove him from the bus. I was then called to be made aware of the situation and told that tomorrow at his IEP meeting we would be looking at moving him back to special transportation (so there are 2 adults on board) and adding behavior into his IEP. Also if he could not be called down I would have to pick him up. Which worries me because that is what he wants and if he gets that I worry he will try this shit again tomorrow. It has been 1 1/2 hrs so I am guessing he is no longer being violent and they are still working on getting him back into class. I called his doc up at Children's (we live in a small area with not a lot of help so he sees a social worker here on a weekly basis and the bigger guns at Children's every 6 weeks or so) and left him a message saying we need to get in ASAP even though our appt is in 2 weeks. Something has to give. We (me and my poor son) can not keep doing this! 

[Linda on the move]

  I'm so sorry that you are going through this.

And I'm sorry for whatever is going on inside him that is causing him to feel and act this way.

[goobergrl6]

That is what gets me the most! How bad he must feel, how scared or lonely, or whatever! It kills me and because of his speech issues he just can not tell us! We go to therapy every week. I just don't know what else to do! 

Lisa 

[Emmeline II]

Down below I pasted what I posted on the ODD thread.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm not sure what services are offered at your hospital, but if he hasn't been evaluated at a clinic like the Center for Development, Behavior and Learning at the University of Maryland, that is what I would look for next. From what I can tell on a map it this clinic would probably be a couple hour's drive from you, but if just went for the eval and results it's probably doable. You could try calling them up and see if there is a similar clinic closer to you.

Though ds didn't have a speech delay his behavior was similar to your ds' in K. I drove him at first, then he REALLY wanted to ride the bus; that experiment lasted 2 months total, then I had to drive him again. By January I was practically dragging him into the school as he did not want to go.

Also if he could not be called down I would have to pick him up. Which worries me because that is what he wants and if he gets that I worry he will try this shit again tomorrow.

I wouldn't think about it like that; as you said, he's probably sad/lonely/scared and he probably isn't yet able/doesn't have the tools to better control his behavior -- ds' Aunt noticed him sitting in the hallway with his class one day and said ds just looked so sad and defeated . I was ready to pull him out of school by February or so until we got the situation figured out but dh was against it. The school kept trying to discipline him like he was just a rowdy boy being naughty.

Yes. Though ODD seldom travels alone; there is usually a co-morbid neuropsychiatric disorder such as ADHD, which is the case with my ds. If you can I'd get an eval at a behavior clinic by a developmental-behavioral ped led team.

The ADHD medication resulted in about a 75% improvement in ds' behavior initially, but we've also been working with a CBT on behavior for the past year. 1st grade was a huge improvement over ds' non-medicated Kinder year. So far this year the only issue we've had in school is some impulsive misbehavior in the bathroom after lunch and very few issues at home .

Children With Oppositional Defiant Disorder...

• Oppositional Defiant Disorder and Conduct Disorder
• Oppositional Defiant Disorder and Conduct Disorder Reference Page

[goobergrl6]

We do drive for evaluations. We did Kennedy Krieger at first and are now going to Children's Hospital in DC. He sees a great psychologist there but like I said we can not use it for our every week therapy appointments because I can not be pulling him out of school almost a whole day each week. There are 2 Psychologist in the area (within 45 mins) but they do not take insurance and the amount I would have to pay until out of network benefits starts is not going to happen right now since I would have to pay it again in January. 

He does not want to go to school which was the cause of the violence/outburst today. He wants me to come get him and bring him home which is why I was worried if his major outburst resulted in that today he would try it again. I know a lot of the times his violence/outbursts are a result of him being upset/frustrated at something going on. When he is happy he is REALLY happy. When he is not upset he plays with other kids, interacts in class ect. It is just when he is upset he gets VERY upset. His speech is a TON better then it used to be. He can express some stuff but I think a lot of it is a matter of him not understanding that not everything has to be a HUGE deal. That we can get upset about something and move on. That if he makes a mistake while drawing a picture and can erase it and try again, he does not have to scream, rip it up and end up in a ball on the floor KWIM? I just wish I could help him more. 

[Linda on the move]

On the plus side, the school is approaching this with the attitude that he is going to need more help and support to be successful, rather than that he is being "bad."

[goobergrl6]

Oh yeah the school is great about it! I broke down and was crying today while talking to the assistant principal and he was like "I know it is hard but we will get through it. This is not something we can not fix." I was so worried about him going to this school because it has the "bad" kids and some of the lower income kids and when we moved here I did not worry about the school we were zoned for since we were homeschooling but now that William goes there I could not ask for a better school. I will defend that school up one side and down the other to ANYONE! They really rock! I just feel awful that he has to go through this. I talked to his doctor up at Children's before dinner and we moved his appt up to next week so that is good. Looks like we might be going to meds which was a LAST resort but I think at this point we have no other choice! 

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by goobergrl6 

I could not ask for a better school. I will defend that school up one side and down the other to ANYONE! They really rock! 

Yes, when you have a special needs child, you find out what the teachers and administrators are REALLY like. Even though we eventually opted for a private alternative school for my DD, I still say good things about principal and teachers at her public school. They were amazing. They cared so much about her. I am so grateful for them.

(I, too, have sat in a principal's office and cried)

How is your son doing at night? Is he sleeping OK? For my Dd, the school issues rolled into sleep issues.

sending you love and light for a better day.

[goobergrl6]

Originally Posted by Linda on the move 

How is your son doing at night? Is he sleeping OK? For my Dd, the school issues rolled into sleep issues.

He is sleeping better then he used to. The last 2 years he was in afternoon pre-k and my oldest is homeschooled so we never had to get up and they went to bed late. Now we have a bedtime ritual and schedule so he is getting MORE sleep then he used to. It used to be a FIGHT to get him to lay down and SLEEP and now most nights it is easy. However he is a PAIN to wake up in the morning. I did find it is a little easier if I put on Kipper for him. LOL He seems to come down easier and it perks him up! 

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by goobergrl6 

He is sleeping better then he used to. The last 2 years he was in afternoon pre-k and my oldest is homeschooled so we never had to get up and they went to bed late. Now we have a bedtime ritual and schedule so he is getting MORE sleep then he used to. It used to be a FIGHT to get him to lay down and SLEEP and now most nights it is easy. However he is a PAIN to wake up in the morning. I did find it is a little easier if I put on Kipper for him. LOL He seems to come down easier and it perks him up! 

We are a former homeschooling family and overall, bedtime goes much better here with the kids in school. (except for the panic attack phase).

I had a very hard time keeping a consistent routine going when it was just me imposing it. With school, the routine is being driving from outside our family, which actually works better.

I hope you guys have a decent morning. My thoughts are with you.

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by goobergrl6 

He does not want to go to school which was the cause of the violence/outburst today. He wants me to come get him and bring him home which is why I was worried if his major outburst resulted in that today he would try it again. I know a lot of the times his violence/outbursts are a result of him being upset/frustrated at something going on. When he is happy he is REALLY happy. When he is not upset he plays with other kids, interacts in class ect. It is just when he is upset he gets VERY upset. His speech is a TON better then it used to be. He can express some stuff but I think a lot of it is a matter of him not understanding that not everything has to be a HUGE deal. That we can get upset about something and move on. That if he makes a mistake while drawing a picture and can erase it and try again, he does not have to scream, rip it up and end up in a ball on the floor KWIM? I just wish I could help him more.
 

Oh yeah the school is great about it! I broke down and was crying today while talking to the assistant principal and he was like "I know it is hard but we will get through it. This is not something we can not fix." I was so worried about him going to this school because it has the "bad" kids and some of the lower income kids and when we moved here I did not worry about the school we were zoned for since we were homeschooling but now that William goes there I could not ask for a better school. I will defend that school up one side and down the other to ANYONE! They really rock! I just feel awful that he has to go through this. I talked to his doctor up at Children's before dinner and we moved his appt up to next week so that is good. Looks like we might be going to meds which was a LAST resort but I think at this point we have no other choice! 

I hope I didn't imply that your school was unsupportive, it was my ds' school for K that was ; even then, it was the principle that was the "unsupportive" one (), his teacher had no idea what to do (and he damaged many of her things); and the counselor (though nice enough) seemed to be towing the "party line" that "they" didn't consider ADHD before 2nd or 3rd grade and failed to fulfill their obligations under the law.  Ds' current school has been MUCH better--dh and our families asked if I wanted to move ds to the new school in our development (we actually pass it to leave the neighborhood) since ds was doing so much better and I said -- even if dd didn't win the charter lottery for ds' school, I was not moving him. Funny thing is that we moved him from a well off/good school district and from a school that is now cracking down on attendance because so many parents can afford to take their children on extended vacations to places like Hawaii, to a Title I school.

ADHD medication seems to have a reputation of being the first resort of lazy parents, but I don't think I've met a parent that didn't agonize over it. It has been the best decision we made for ds, though we had to try two meds at a few doses. Though ds isn't a huge fan of school, at least he goes now without a struggle and this year he has only had one argument with a classmate. His first grade teacher worked with him a lot on the "everything is a huge deal" behavior, and though he still may get upset it passes in seconds instead of minutes or resulting in a tantrum.

Ds uses melatonin for sleep (it used to take hours to get him to sleep) and though someone needs to be upstairs to make sure he stays in bed, he gets to sleep in about 20min. He is also difficult to get up (at 6am which is an hour before his natural wake time of 7am) but that has improved somewhat now that dd is going to school--he does need to be babied a bit in the morning and I help him get ready more that one probably helps a 2nd grader.

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by goobergrl6 

I think I am about to hit my breaking point!

Sweetie, I've been thinking about you this week and sending you positive energy.

Whatever is happening right now, trust that it is temporary. Some day, this will be a sad memory, but it won't be your son's reality any more. He will be happy.