Originally Posted by IdentityCrisisMama
I think a lot of us are kind of reading what we want on this thread (on BOTH "sides" and myself included, I'm sure). I never got the vibe that anyone was saying twin births should not happen at home. I certainly don't feel that way AT ALL.
I know we have a lot of new members and I realize that some of them may well be "anti-homebirth" or "anit-FSBC" birth. But, part me me feels like if they had one of these births themselves - no matter the out come and no matter if they changed their feelings on the subject - they are still part of the dialogue.
And, then there are people like me, who am not new to MDC or to homebirth (I planned my first over 10 years ago and had my second just a few months ago) who prefer to talk about things a bit more...I don't know. I feel like if we are going to talk about risk it helps to define it. I agree 100% that we need to be cautious about the language we use both in how our language impacts our choices and whether our language reflects meaningful definitions (especially when talking about the safety of birth).
Sorry, I don't mean to be part of the debate...I just wanted to point out that it's not just newbies or anit-HBers that are feeling like specific language is important. BUT, for all I know all of this has a specific meaning...and it's me who is ignorant of the definitions. Do they have definitions?
I didn't mean at ALL to say that anyone is not a welcome part of the discussion...I certainly didn't mean to imply the posts that you have contributed haven't been appreciated and helpful.
I'm totally, totally not against the influx of more "mainstream" ideas...I just feel like it used to be less common, that on a forum specifically created for helpful and supportive discussion about something like homebirth or UC, that I would have to wade through so much "anti" sentiment. Not questions about "is this really REALLY safe, what research have you read, can you show me?" but "YEah, um THAT is high risk...I don't know why anyone would take a risk like that at home for an EXPERIENCE!!" :smirk smirk: I mean, the poor UC forum...it has been necessary to create a "private" forum for UC, mostly, I think, because of the number of "I'm gonna save you from yourselfff!" crusaders that think it's okay to bust up in the UC forum with "Okay, I'm sorry, usually I only lurk here (and roll my eyes, feel smug and secretly think you're an idiot) but today, I just HAVE to call you an idiot to your face because this situation is just TOO dangerous!" - type of thing.
Nobody is going to sit here and say that an "Echo Chamber" forum is good for any of us...but man, "There is absolutely no elevated risk in getting an epidural during birth" - come on, how can I even take a discussion seriously if that is what I'm hearing? I get that some people are just going to freak out about breech or twin birth. That's fine. I cringe when I hear about a mama signing up for a c/s for the SOLE reason that she is carrying two...and other mamas cringe when I say that, ruling out a couple of situations that can pop up with twins (cord, placenta, sack issues) I would ONLY try a twin birth at a center or at home. That's the beauty of birth choice! But I think it's important to keep in mind, that many many women on this forum...the HOME birth forum...have had just those types of births at home and it feels a bit annoying to have to wade through that sentiment when I know the level of self education that many women here have undergone to form the conclusions they have and made the birth choices they made.
I've done enough research to know, that BuzzBuzz and whomever else who claims to, probably HAS found studies and journals and articles that talk about the dangers and statistics, etc etc...I know it exists. I know that there is a ton of research that directly contradicts my own. But the thing is, MY research says the opposite...and it also comes from doctors and researchers and organizations that spend a lot of time trying to underscore their credibility, because NOT being the AMA or whatever else, can make it hard to get people to understand that you are a legit source of information. I think that the research that counters my own is suspect, sometimes at BEST, and I don't think it's accurate at all. Other people think my research is "quackery" because the vastly funded, completely incentivized research they read comes from "more reputable" sources. I'm okay with it....with my choices being mine...and their choices being theirs...and all of us having different forums where we can be smug and don't have to explain ourselves every time we write a post because everyone there "Gets" where we're coming from.
Listen....I don't vax, for anything, at any time...I don't circ, I don't go with modern medicine because homeopathy and a good diet has always kept us healthy. There are a lot of areas of my life that I have researched and formed opinions about, that other people think is CRAP research and CRAP opinions. I'm used to saying "YEah, but I think that the AMA is a pack of liars and I think your research is full of BS" - and hearing back "Yeah, um Doctors have to go to school to get degrees....ACTUAL DEGREES...so, yeah, whatever stupid witch doctor site you got your info from is crap!" - you know? I get that debate. There will always be that debate.
But I didn't used to feel like I had to add caveats and disclaimers at the same rate that I find myself, and others, doing so these days....and there HAS been a giant influx in mainstream type ideas and I'm glad for diversity...but I do sometimes pine for the old days. I haven't heard about anyone composting poop in a long time. I know you're still out there. I don't know. It's just not as crunchy here as it used to be.
Edited by BroodyWoodsgal - 11/23/11 at 7:59am