Cosleeping and couple time with a toddler

[reddad]

My wife and I have been co-sleeping with our girl since she was born - 16 months. In some respects it’s great: it’s definitely good for the baby, I think we’ve all had more sleep this way, and the times when she wakes up in the morning are some of our best family moments. However, my wife and I get very little time together as just the two of us. It was several months before my wife would leave the baby on her own in bed at all in case she woke up. Now (at 16 months) we can get about 30-40 minutes together after the baby first goes to sleep, but then she wakes up and my wife has to return to bed to breastfeed her back to sleep. I really struggle with only having such short periods together, and anyway that is still dominated by the baby because she’s always watching to see if the baby stirs on the video monitor. I was very enthusiastic about cosleeping to start with but now I feel like I’ve lost my wife. 

What I want to know is are we in a normal position? Do other cosleeping couples get this little time together, and if so how do you survive? When did other cosleeping, breastfed kids start to sleep for longer before their first waking?

By the way in case you assume I'm only talking about sex - I'm really not, I'm talking about intimacy and having a time for just us. That might mean sex but it might not!

[Ginger Bean]

I've bed-shared with my 12mo son since birth. He's never been a great sleeper, and my husband even sleeps in a separate room -- and we have more time together than you describe!

Why is your wife so anxious about her waking? Do you have guard rails or some kind of barrier pillow like Snug Tuck? At 16 months, I would think your daughter could be taught to scoot off the bed backwards.

[katelove]

We have also co-slept with our 16mo since birth and we definitely get more time together than you describe.

I feed our LO to sleep then get up. Whenever she wakes up I go back and feed her back to sleep. This is usually every 1-3hrs and takes 5-60mins each time. I would say that usually though, it's every 2hrs and takes 20-30mins. She is usually asleep by 6:30pm so we get a few hours together in the evening (interrupted by feeds of course).

We have the bed on the floor and have bed rails on so, even if she did accidentally roll off she' be fine. We have sex in another room (our house is all on one level and small enough that we can hear her from anywhere). Sometimes we're interrupted for a feed but, that's parenting really, isn't it?

Oh, also, it is normal for a BF'ed baby to wake up for a top-up 30-40 mins after they feed to sleep. There is a second peak of the sleepy hormone then so they are naturally programmed to take advantage of that. If that seems to be your babe's pattern then you can try to plan for it a bit and don't start watching a long movie or anything until after the second feed.

[crunchy_mommy]

I can commiserate... I have a 2.5yo with major sleep issues and as a result, DH and I get very very little time together -- even less than what you describe actually. Does your daughter have problems sleeping, or is your wife just very anxious about it? Also, does your wife get enough sleep? I know part of my problem is even when DS is sleeping well, I'm just too tired to do anything besides lay down & rest myself, because I am so chronically sleep-deprived. But most of the time DS actually needs me there to keep him asleep, which is really frustrating. So I think we need a little more info to be able to try to help you out here.

I also want to say, as far as sex goes... I am adamantly anti-TV but we have finally started occasionally putting a video on youtube for DS so we can sneak out to our room together for 5mins or so during the day... Desperate times call for desperate measures...

[KarenGordon]

Everybody has a different opinion about everything, specially when it comes to parenting, very personal. I am not a co-sleeping parent, but I will tell you what we did, maybe you feel it is time to change the routine.

We have a little boy, he is 2 now. When he was born, he suffered of meconium aspiration and had to stay in the NICU for a month. When we finally brought him home, he was already used to the 3 hours routine (the hospital procedures were made every 3 hours), so I would breastfeed, change diaper, everything - every 3 hours. A strict routine is so important not just so you can predict more, but to make the child to feel safe, and safety doens't necessarily means attachment, neither "over parenting". When he was almost 5 months old, he started sleeping the whole night, by that time, we started putting him to sleep in his room, our room's doors were right front of each other and we didn't have any problem. Sometimes he would cry, I would go there and check on him, sometimes feed him, sometimes a blanket or even passifier would make it. 

Nowadays, he naps in the afternoon for 2 hours and goes to bed at nights around 830pm. He has his milk, then I give him a bath, a massage and put him in the crib, done, he even say "bye" and he will fall asleep by himself, every night.

Here is the thing.. in his first month of life (in the hospital), he had several complications and one of them affected his liver, so he had to have a milk called 'pregomin'. Believe me, I was devasted I couldn't breastfeed, but I also understood that was a necessity and the milks nowadays are not like 30 years ago, they are good and nourish well.

By the time he was released from the NICU, we were transitioning from pregomin milk to breast milk, in fact he always had both. After my breast milk he would have from 30 to 60 mls of the formula.

Why am I saying all that? Well.. you asked if you are in a normal position, right?! I guess you are, considering your wife is still breasdfeeding (Is there a reason for that still?)

I don't believe everytime a child wakes up in the middle of the night you have to feed that child (we are not talking about little babies, a 16 months old baby is already eating solid food..etc, some are already walking!).

I believe after "weaning" the child, the couples life has a chance to get back on track, and co-sleeping? why? she is almost 2, right? Why is she not in her room? It will only get harder and harder to make that transition later, for everyone. I can't imagine how hard it is for a couple to live like that. And sometimes, we moms are so focused on our responsabilities with the child and everything we want to project in them that we can, unwittingly, leave the husband aside. Bonds can be built any other time of the day, all day and even at nights without the need of sleeping at the same room. Don't take me wrong, but it seems like it is more about the parent's needs than the child's itself.

Good Luck! :)

[Ginger Bean]

I guess you are, considering your wife is still breasdfeeding (Is there a reason for that still?)

 

I believe after "weaning" the child, the couples life has a chance to get back on track, and co-sleeping? why? she is almost 2, right? Why is she not in her room? It will only get harder and harder to make that transition later, for everyone. I can't imagine how hard it is for a couple to live like that. And sometimes, we moms are so focused on our responsabilities with the child and everything we want to project in them that we can, unwittingly, leave the husband aside. Bonds can be built any other time of the day, all day and even at nights without the need of sleeping at the same room. Don't take me wrong, but it seems like it is more about the parent's needs than the child's itself.

Are you sure you know what forum you're on?

[To-Fu]

Originally Posted by KarenGordon 

Everybody has a different opinion about everything, specially when it comes to parenting, very personal. I am not a co-sleeping parent, but I will tell you what we did, maybe you feel it is time to change the routine.

We have a little boy, he is 2 now. When he was born, he suffered of meconium aspiration and had to stay in the NICU for a month. When we finally brought him home, he was already used to the 3 hours routine (the hospital procedures were made every 3 hours), so I would breastfeed, change diaper, everything - every 3 hours. A strict routine is so important not just so you can predict more, but to make the child to feel safe, and safety doens't necessarily means attachment, neither "over parenting". When he was almost 5 months old, he started sleeping the whole night, by that time, we started putting him to sleep in his room, our room's doors were right front of each other and we didn't have any problem. Sometimes he would cry, I would go there and check on him, sometimes feed him, sometimes a blanket or even passifier would make it. 

Nowadays, he naps in the afternoon for 2 hours and goes to bed at nights around 830pm. He has his milk, then I give him a bath, a massage and put him in the crib, done, he even say "bye" and he will fall asleep by himself, every night.

Here is the thing.. in his first month of life (in the hospital), he had several complications and one of them affected his liver, so he had to have a milk called 'pregomin'. Believe me, I was devasted I couldn't breastfeed, but I also understood that was a necessity and the milks nowadays are not like 30 years ago, they are good and nourish well.

By the time he was released from the NICU, we were transitioning from pregomin milk to breast milk, in fact he always had both. After my breast milk he would have from 30 to 60 mls of the formula.

Why am I saying all that? Well.. you asked if you are in a normal position, right?! I guess you are, considering your wife is still breasdfeeding (Is there a reason for that still?)

I don't believe everytime a child wakes up in the middle of the night you have to feed that child (we are not talking about little babies, a 16 months old baby is already eating solid food..etc, some are already walking!).

I believe after "weaning" the child, the couples life has a chance to get back on track, and co-sleeping? why? she is almost 2, right? Why is she not in her room? It will only get harder and harder to make that transition later, for everyone. I can't imagine how hard it is for a couple to live like that. And sometimes, we moms are so focused on our responsabilities with the child and everything we want to project in them that we can, unwittingly, leave the husband aside. Bonds can be built any other time of the day, all day and even at nights without the need of sleeping at the same room. Don't take me wrong, but it seems like it is more about the parent's needs than the child's itself.

Good Luck! :)

Welcome to Mothering!  I mentioned this in a reply to one of your other posts questioning the appropriateness of co-sleeping, but please do take a few moments to get a feel for what the forums here at Mothering are all about.  Notably, it should be a safe place for folks to get support around issues such as sleep sharing, "extended" breastfeeding, babywearing, gentle discipline, etc.  It's not really the place for judgment about others' attachment parenting choices. 

Feel free to contact a moderator or administrator if you have questions.  Hopefully this will help you get a feel for what participation here means and how you can best honor Mothering's User Agreement going forward.

To the rest of those participating in this thread, please keep it civil when responding and focus on the OP's concerns.  Thanks. :)

Cheers,

To-Fu

Co-moderator of FBNP

[To-Fu]

Originally Posted by reddad 

My wife and I have been co-sleeping with our girl since she was born - 16 months. In some respects it’s great: it’s definitely good for the baby, I think we’ve all had more sleep this way, and the times when she wakes up in the morning are some of our best family moments. However, my wife and I get very little time together as just the two of us. It was several months before my wife would leave the baby on her own in bed at all in case she woke up. Now (at 16 months) we can get about 30-40 minutes together after the baby first goes to sleep, but then she wakes up and my wife has to return to bed to breastfeed her back to sleep. I really struggle with only having such short periods together, and anyway that is still dominated by the baby because she’s always watching to see if the baby stirs on the video monitor. I was very enthusiastic about cosleeping to start with but now I feel like I’ve lost my wife. 

What I want to know is are we in a normal position? Do other cosleeping couples get this little time together, and if so how do you survive? When did other cosleeping, breastfed kids start to sleep for longer before their first waking?

By the way in case you assume I'm only talking about sex - I'm really not, I'm talking about intimacy and having a time for just us. That might mean sex but it might not!

You sound frustrated, and I can definitely understand.  Our kids' sleep has gone through cycles that has allowed for more or less intimacy, depending, and it's not always easy.  I do think, however, that we've gotten more time together because of co-sleeping, though. 

What you're describing does sound different than what I have personally experienced with my kids (one is four and one just turned 16 months a few days ago).  We still breastfeed the little one on demand, and frankly, I'm pretty sure most of his calories come from my milk, even though he eats solids.  I nurse him to sleep and sometimes he'll wake up at that 30-40m mark (they're wired to do so), and sometimes not.  But definitely as he's aged we've been able to get longer and longer stretches between wake-ups. 

Like previous posters, we have a video monitor and watch the baby from a different floor in the house where we can usually see an entire movie (with interruptions, but still) in an evening, or do whatever with the couple hours we get.  Sometimes I have to go upstairs and re-settle him, but it usually takes 20-30 minutes and then I'm back.  We have a space set up in a different area of our house where we can be intimate (whatever that may entail). 

Is there something safety-related your wife is worried about in particular that keeps her so preoccupied with the monitor?  Is your bed high off the ground?  Do you not have rails or bumpers on the edges?  Does the baby not know how to get off the bed properly? 

If this has been going on since your baby was born, maybe you just got unlucky with a really bad sleeper.  If that's the case, you have my sincere condolences.  I'm sure it's taking a toll on everyone!  That said, I don't think putting the baby in a crib or separate room would really change that--it might make things worse, in fact, since she seems to sleep better with your wife there and it might make her more anxious (and thus cause more wake-ups) if she's alone. 

Have you talked to your wife about all this?  What does she think?

Best of luck--I promise it won't be this way forever, but that doesn't mean it isn't extremely difficult right now. 

[KarenGordon]

Searching for similar cases of meconium aspiration, unfortunately, google brought me here. With open heart I shared my story as the poster request (who went through the same difficult and delicate situation).

I kept reading the posts and I found the community very interesting. Empathetically I answered the post above and decided to share our experience; even though we are "non co-sleeping parents” (if it is appropriate in your “faith” to label us this way), we support diverse natural habits and I did not know that this community was either “all or nothing”.

If  the OP would have said something like "thanks for your opinion, it is not valid for us anyway” or anything else, I would respect and stop it here.

My intention was never to attack but sharing, I believe that often the poor husband of 100% “organic wife” suffers and end up giving in, sometimes for love or lack of communication, resulting in a dysfunctional relationship or an unhappy silent husband, the result again = cheating. I do not even know if that is a concern, after all, men were “biologically” polygamist.

Again, I took my time to give my opinion with open heart and the best intentions, but it seems that the “biologically normal" human being instinct here was to attack.

The "we Encourage friendly debate, Socializing, and good humor" written on the agreements were not shown here, so I feel I have the right of response.

My answer was approached very rudely and with certain arrogance as if my opinion was not worth anything, just for being different (for the same reason was not tolerated).

I am very thankful for the articles and books, but you are not talking to a nobody  (that was offensive too), if it is not good or healthy, why to do it? that was my question. I have several years of experience in children's development; however my English might seem a little poor still, know that we can also talk in German, Italian, French or Portuguese, if you prefer.

"Biologically normal" were the pioneers of the west: diapers were rarely washed, were dried in stacks only to be used later again. The Eskimos of Alaska used animal skins stuffed with moss; Native Americans wore rabbit skins stuffed with pasture / grass. The Armenians used a cloth stuffed with very fine sand. But of course, we evolved when we started studying and understanding bacteria, viruses and fungi, and how to control them.

To survive, our species had to anticipate labor thus generating an immature and dependent being, so the human pregnancy, which was to last 21 months, came to last 9 (or 10 months, properly analyzing it).

Science and technology have brought progress and common sense, so we use cars, not horses, do blood transfusions to save lives (because to parameters of normal biology  patients would die sick) and some even shave the underarm. Health and hygiene concerns were presented to us.

As a mother with many natural habits too, I believed that I could show a different but still positive side of the situation to the OP.

In my family we have healthy boundaries. Our children learn over time to respect the bonds of intimacy that can only be shared by the husband and wife.

They also acquire the ability to feel safe in their space, and this skill only can develop when parents are artful about when to move in and give comfort and when their child needed to allow space.

Our children are learning to cope and confront their fears in their own rooms with our support, showing them we live in a secure environment so they have the chance to become mature, independent and confident adults, able to withstand the unknown, respecting their individuality and the others.

"Focus on the OP concerns" -> That was exactly what I did when I tried to show how we manage it here, and I made it clear in the beginning of my post that everyone has a different opinion and it should be respected. The fact I do not co-sleep with my children does not make me anything less than anybody who has this habit and vice-versa. I respected his post and answered with the expectation to be respected, despite the fact that his question was for co-sleeping parents, I really thought he would be glad to hear different points of view. But I see that different opinions and individuality are not welcome here. So, I am truly sorry if I bothered your organic patience or lack thereof. It is not going to happen again.

[Viola]

Originally Posted by KarenGordon . Bonds can be built any other time of the day, all day and even at nights without the need of sleeping at the same room. Don't take me wrong, but it seems like it is more about the parent's needs than the child's itself.

My gut response to this is to say It's really not about the parents' needs.  But on some level it is because the alternative is worse.  There have definitely been times where I felt done with breastfeeding and cosleeping, but my child wasn't done, my child wasn't ready to give it up.  And ultimately, what was easier for my child was easier for me because at least I could get sleep and my child could as well.  The problem is that every child is an individual, and not every child is developmentally ready for things to happen at a certain age.  It's not to say that children won't eventually learn to cope, but you can make things worse for a child by forcing him into situations for which he or she isn't ready.

[KarenGordon]

Viola, although you really make a very good point here (thank you) and I respect it, I've just made my point too and the answers here should be more directed to the 'OP' situation. :)