Moving to Vegas!

[foreverinbluejeans]

I may be moving to Vegas in 3 weeks! I am 55 and I live with my son, pregnant DIL, and 3 year old grandson. My DIL was just offered a promotion and she could go from working full time outside the home to woking mostly at home and only having to work a few hours that she gets to choose outside the home. She will also get a big pay raise. We currently live in Tucson.

I don't think the climate is way different than Tucson so that won't be a big deal. We will be looking for a 2 bedroom non-smolking apartment or great deal house to rent. We all really have health problems with smoking. We would like a birth center birth.

For those who live in Vegas do you like it? Hate it? What are the good things? The bad?

[pumpkin]

Wow what an exciting adventure.

If DiL is workIng from home aren't you going to need more space? She will need anquiet place to work away from the kids, pets, and other household members.

[savithny]

In many communities, a landlord will not be legally allowed to rent a 2-bedroom apartment to a family of 3 adults and 2 children.   Or if it's legally allowed, the lease will disallow it.    

ALso, as the PP said, where will your DIL do her work from home?   To have a formal telecommuting agreement, my employer requires you provide evidence of childcare for any children and a separate workspace away from the childcare area.

[stik]

I hate to over-shadow your new adventure, but will you be re-homing your dog?  His history of nipping your grandson could so easily lead to disaster as the pressures of the move and the new sibling crowd in on your grandson in a new, small space. 

[Honey693]

How does your DIL feel about this?  And I agree that 5 people in a 2 bedroom apartment with one person working from home is not going to work.

[pookel]

Did they invite you to come along or are you just assuming? This might be a good time to have a frank discussion about who's going to be living where. If they're looking for a 2-bedroom house, when they will have 2 parents and 2 kids in their family, it sounds like they're not planning on you joining them.

[foreverinbluejeans]

I was asking about Vegas not our living situation.

I am from Indiana where it is unusual for multigenerational families to live together especially in apartments. In Arizona where we live now with it's high number of families of Mexican heritage it is very common. Before I moved in with my son and his family I called CPS to make sure there were no rules about the number of people in a househould. They were surprised someone actually asked and when I told me that I was asking about only 3 adults in an apartment (how silly of me, they thought I was calling about 10 adults or something) they said there was no problem. I called Nevada CPS and they said they had no rules about the number of adults living in an apartment. I do not anticipate any problems finding an apartment.

We looked at at least 20 apartment complexes in Tucson trying to find the perfect one (layout, flooring, washer & dryer in unit, ect) and not one had a problem with with 3 adults and a child in a 2 bedroom. My son's bedroom is huge and there is room for their queen bed and a twin bed my grandson uses when the family bed gets too crowded. There would be room for the Arm's Reach Co-Sleeper if we were staying here. Their room is much like a hotel room with a sink in the room and a bathroom. It is about the size of a hotel room. I have a room almost as large with my own bathroom and a walk-in closet. We will be looking for a large, nice apartment not a small apartment with 8 x 8 bedrooms and one bathroom.

They need me more than I need them. If I don't go they can't do it. I will be taking care of the children most of the time. They won't leave their children with anyone other than me. My grandson has a rare genetic disease and shouldn't be around other kids. He is sick almost all the time. She would rather work. With our bad genetic luck the baby will probably have the same disease. My DIL has been gone for days at a time, she is gone this week. She may leave in a week and go stay in a hotel in Vegas, not see her toddler son for 2 weeks, and I quess leave moving up to me and my son. My son works unusual hours and is sometimes gone overnight. They may both gone on the same night. She has done the job that she will be doing when they have needed her and all she needs is her laptop and she props herself up in bed. She doesn't need room for her job.

I said a two bedroom apartment because three bedroom apartments are hard to find, we want it to be non-smoking and we have other things about an apartment that are important to us. Three bedroom apartments are hard to find and the bedrooms are usually smaller and they have bad layouts.  I said a great deal house not a two bedroom house.

The year my grandson was an infant we had recently to Tucson and all three of my adult sons, my DIL, and I lived together. Five adults and a very fussy baby (eczema related to a genetic disease) lived in a 3 bedroom house and it worked great. One son worked days and and one nights at the hospital (RN and phlebotomist) and we only had 2 cars. There were five adults to hold the fussy baby. We only moved because our house sitting time was up. We are used to living together when it makes economic or practical sense. I went through grad school (masters and doctoral) living in a tiny family housing two bedroom apartment (700 square feet), I had 3 sons and we homeschooled. They would only give the 3 bedroom family housing apartments to couples with 4 or more children. I am in luxury with my own bedroom and bathroom.

I'm not an idiot. I'm have a lot of life experience. Why do people say things like 3 adults can't rent a two bedroom apartment or that 5 people can't get along in a 2 bedroom apartment?

 If someone asked about info about places I have lived I could give them them all kinds of info about housing, schools, activities for kids, doctors, restraunts, parks, ect. That is what I was looking for about Vegas.

[AlexisT]

Crowding rules are municipal code, not a CPS issue. Municipalities may set a maximum number of people per room o a minimum square footage rule to prevent overcrowding and slum conditions.

I have had multiple landlords with a 2 person per bedroom clause in the lease--including my current one.

[Honey693]

Originally Posted by foreverinbluejeans 

I was asking about Vegas not our living situation.

I am from Indiana where it is unusual for multigenerational families to live together especially in apartments. In Arizona where we live now with it's high number of families of Mexican heritage it is very common. Before I moved in with my son and his family I called CPS to make sure there were no rules about the number of people in a househould. They were surprised someone actually asked and when I told me that I was asking about only 3 adults in an apartment (how silly of me, they thought I was calling about 10 adults or something) they said there was no problem. I called Nevada CPS and they said they had no rules about the number of adults living in an apartment. I do not anticipate any problems finding an apartment.

I lived in Indiana for 15 years and never heard of anyone doing it so I don't think it's as common as you think.

Zoning laws = different from CPS rules.  I'd check into that.  And that still doesn't address the fact that you DIL is going to be working from home with no separate work space.

[Annie Mac]

I don't know much about Vegas, but it might help others if you provided a little more information about housing requirements. Budget, for example, would help weed out overly pricey areas and avoid more undesirable, but cheaper, areas. What is your DIL looking for in a birth centre? What about health insurance? Is it an issue when it comes to choosing a birthing centre/midwife/OB? And how about your son? Will he be looking for RN work when he arrives and therefore is proximity to a major hospital important? How about proximity to doctors? Do your grandchildren need to be near a medical facility? 

I have lived in Central America, so I get what you are talking about with how much square footage you need. It is indeed *possible* to fit many people into a small space. Even so, I can completely understand people's reaction to 3 adults, 2 children (who presumably can't get out and play much due to health issues) and a dog in a 800 - 1000 sq ft apartment (which is about average, IME, for a 2 bedroom). Then add into the mix that one of the adults is going to be doing her work from home and will need a decent space in which to deliver quality work. I don't know what your DIL does, but it's hard to focus in a small space when people are moving about, playing, preparing food, etc. Just me personally, I don't think I could work day after day propped up in bed with a laptop on my knees. Just from a healthy back/ergonomic standpoint, it doesn't sound tenable in the long term. Maybe she's made of tougher stuff than me though...what does she say about this? 

Anyway, sorry I can't help more with the Vegas details, but maybe if you were very specific about what you were looking for, some Vegas residents could help?

[stik]

I recently moved out of AZ where multi-generational living situations are more common.  Usually, economic necessity is the driver, rather than cultural preference - there's a bit of a bias towards having an abuela living at home, but not much enthusiasm for having, for example, grandparents, parents, and adult children with spouses and children of their own in a single dwelling (and, as others have noted, you can do it if you own, but it violates zoning laws and housing codes for rentals in many areas).  Or having parents and in-laws who resent each other in the same space.  

Foreverinbluejeans, from your posts it's quite evident that you and your DIL don't get along very well.  It sounds like some additional space might help ease the tension, not to mention saving your family the need for a second, expensive move when the baby outgrows the co-sleeper (and there is no guarantee that the master bedroom in the new space will be generous enough for a queen bed, a co-sleeper, and a twin bed).  You also need to carve out some safe space for your dog - animals that have difficulty with toddlers usually also have difficulty with infants when they start to grab.  Vegas looks to be a little more expensive than Tucson, but Craigslist shows a number of three and four bedroom apartments and some houses for rent in the area in a fairly typical price range for the southwest.  You note that they need you more than you need them.  If the family dynamics are getting too intense you might consider renting a studio or a one-bedroom for yourself - Vegas has a lot of availability.  

WIth your DIL working mostly from home, working in bed will not work - in the long term it causes horrible back problems.  But, it sounds like with her reduced travel schedule, you will also get a chance to take a break from childcare.  Getting yourself out of the house for some R&R might help ease your resentment towards your DIL.  Its obvious from your posts that the tension really bothers you.  

A few years ago, I heard that it could be very difficult to find OB care in Nevada.  When I google, I see a couple birth centers in Vegas, mostly associated with hospitals, but one or two appear to be freestanding.  I'm sure that your DIL will take time on her upcoming trip to Vegas to look for the care she wants, since she will be in town.   

[savithny]

When I was in an apartment in Missouri, our across the hall neighbors were a couple, his mother, and their baby.  

When their second baby was born, I saw a note from the management on their door regarding them now being in violation of both local codes and the lease.

This is why I mentioned it -- you might find the landlord suddenly objecting when they realize a baby has been born, and making your DIL have to move shortly after having given birth sounds like it wouldn't be fun at all.

[foreverinbluejeans]

I read the code and called and asked code people and 5 people (even adults) can live in a 2 bedroom apartment in Las Vegas. I called an apartment complex and they said 5 people is no problems. I don't know what is wrong with people on Mothering. I got a pm telling me to go to another site where they were "totally making fun of me" because I need to let my children get a life. Mothering is supposed to be a place where all forms of families should feel safe posting.

I just wanted info and support about Vegas. I know it's not just me because I have seen other posters have problems with people ganging up on them and getting off topic or trying to make the poster feel bad.  

[omgpwnies]

Why would you put 5 people in a 2 bedroom apartment if at least 3 of them are severely immuno-compromised? Also, if your grandson, your child and yourself have "boy in the bubble"  (which is actually called SCID),disease, like you stated here:

Quote (Click to show)

foreverinbluejeans
Today at 12:32 pm
Mothering is supposed to be supportive of all families. I looked at your profile and you are new to Mothering and perhaps this is not the right environment for you. Read the guidelines.

I don't know anything about this other site and I am not signing up to it to see people totally making fun of me. I have seen other women being attacked on Mothering lately so I know I am not the only one being singled out. How is it in the interest of fairness to tell someone that they are being totally made fun of on another site. I guess I am not letting my son live his own life because I live with him and DIL to take care of my grandson because both of their jobs require overnight travel. 

I don't know what your problem is. They want me to live with them, need me to live with them. I did mention that my grandson has special needs. What I didn't reveal is that he only has a little over a 50% chance of survival. Since all three of my sons had the same disease and they all have survived my son believes I am the best bet for his son surviving. We are the only family in the country with a mother and all children having the disease. My grandson was diagnosed with the disease at around 12 months. 

I hope you have fun making fun of a family with a child with a life threatening disease that could die at any time. He could get an infection and die in a matter of hours. We will spend a lot of time in ERs and hospitals. My son has horrible memories of raging infecions, pneumonia, cellulitis, ear infections, IVs, waiting in the childrens hospital for hours several times a week, ERs, blood tests, asthma treatments, inpatient stays, my inpatient stays, my IVs every 3 weeks and other treatments, his brothers inpatient stays, weight checks 3 times a week at the peds office, horrible diarrhea all the time, dirhhea that would run down his legs and fill his shoes, never being well, not being able to be around other kids, not being able to go to school, not being able to go to the movies, not being able to go anywhere where there are people, shopping at 5 am or 11 pm when stores are empty, not knowing if you mother is going to die. This was my son's life. Treatment is a little better now and we want to make my grandson's life as easy and fun as possible.

I hope you have fun making fun of a family with 3 generations of people having the "boy in the bubble" disease.

 why would you be asking about restaurant and park recommendations? The only treatments for SCID are bone marrow transplants from an unaffected family member, gene therapy, or, you know, bubbles. 

Which one did you and your three kids have?

Also, if your daughter in law is expecting another child at risk for SCID, she should probably labor in a hospital with a NICU. 

[stik]

I remembered that you, your son, and your grandson all had immune difficulties, but when you stated that a dog bite would not be a serious issue to your grandson I assumed they were not severe.

ForeverinBlueJeans, I respect that in your day-to-day life, you are a kind, caring, well-intentioned human being.  On this board, your statements about your DIL have often bordered on cruel.  Despite this, you seem to have a high degree of investment/involvement in your DIL's most personal affairs - for example, at the beginning of this thread, you state that "We would like a birth center birth."  I think that, with due respect to everyone's best intentions, the combination of a statement of mutual preference about your DIL's birth care, with later statements in which you denigrate her parenting and her need for work and personal space, may be triggering some posters' latent feelings about difficult relationships in their own lives.  I know that when I first read this thread, my reaction was to feel defensive on your DIL's behalf, because I fear that my MIL feels free to interfere in what I consider my most private matters and may not respect me much as a parent.  

It was my hope when I posted earlier that this thread might offer some suggestions that could help you steer your relationship with your DIL to a more comfortable place while you navigate the transition from Tucson to Las Vegas.  I know that's not what you were looking for, but it's what I wished for you.  I'm sorry the tone here has taken a negative turn.  

[coffeegirl]

Originally Posted by stik 

I remembered that you, your son, and your grandson all had immune difficulties, but when you stated that a dog bite would not be a serious issue to your grandson I assumed they were not severe.

ForeverinBlueJeans, I respect that in your day-to-day life, you are a kind, caring, well-intentioned human being.  On this board, your statements about your DIL have often bordered on cruel.  Despite this, you seem to have a high degree of investment/involvement in your DIL's most personal affairs - for example, at the beginning of this thread, you state that "We would like a birth center birth."  I think that, with due respect to everyone's best intentions, the combination of a statement of mutual preference about your DIL's birth care, with later statements in which you denigrate her parenting and her need for work and personal space, may be triggering some posters' latent feelings about difficult relationships in their own lives.  I know that when I first read this thread, my reaction was to feel defensive on your DIL's behalf, because I fear that my MIL feels free to interfere in what I consider my most private matters and may not respect me much as a parent.  

Yes, totally agree with all this. FIBJ, please don't feel ganged up upon, because seriously what I've seen in this thread is mostly questions; not indictments against you. You kwim? If your grandson has such a serious immune disease, do you think it would be safe to have you all live in such small quarters, with dogs who have been known to bite kids? This is the kind of thing people are wondering about. I assure you that if anyone posted these same circumstances, the responses would be similar. Questions, that's all.

Also, aside from the health issues and zoning laws, etc....have you or your son and DiL considered looking for a 3- bedroom apt that would suit your needs? You'd all be so much more comfortable! And maybe they are few and far between, but it wouldn't hurt to just look, you know? In any case, I wish you all good luck.
 

[stik]

Originally Posted by coffeegirl 

Also, aside from the health issues and zoning laws, etc....have you or your son and DiL considered looking for a 3- bedroom apt that would suit your needs? You'd all be so much more comfortable! And maybe they are few and far between, but it wouldn't hurt to just look, you know? 
 

And I did look!  Craigslist Las Vegas lists a bunch of three bedroom apartments and houses!  I don't know what's affordable for FIBJ's family or what specific amenities they may need, but there is quite a bit of 3-4 bedroom availability out there in various forms.  

[foreverinbluejeans]

I called and talked to the municipal code people and they said 5 people can live in a 2 bedroom apartments. There are 2 bedrooom apartments and houses that are more then 1000 sq ft and 3 bedroom apartments and houses that are less than 1000 sq ft. If we get a 2 bedroom apartment it won't be forever.

Our dogs have never bit anyone, I don't know where any one got that idea. Kids exposed to two dogs at a very young age are less likely to become allergic. 

Three of us have immune deficiencies, I'm the worst. We have been living with it for over 20 years and I don't think size of apartment or house has ever had any impact. Things like air quality, floor coverings, type of heat, AC, ect. are important. If there isn't much storage we rent a storage unit, better than a 3rd bedroom!

[stik]

Originally Posted by foreverinbluejeans 

Our dogs have never bit anyone, I don't know where any one got that idea. Kids exposed to two dogs at a very young age are less likely to become allergic. 

I got that idea from the Kids and Dogs thread where you said your chihuahua had repeatedly nipped your grandson, and implied that the worst possible consequence of your dog biting the child would be a scar.  Specifically, you stated:

 have been able to teach the dog and my grandson that a growl means stop. The dog has nipped a couple of times when my grandson knew he deserved it. We all know if my grandson gets bit it is because my grandson was tormenting the dog. The dog only weights 3 pounds and his teeth aren't very sharp. We can't rehome my grandson (just kidding). We hope for the best and if he gets bit by the itty bitty Chihuahua - boys like scars.  

IMO, nipping and biting are really the same behavior - teeth close on skin, skin can break, infections can spread from the dog's mouth to ANY child, but especially to one who is immune-compromised.  

I am absolutely in agreement that using bedrooms for storage space is a bad idea.  From the sounds of things, it sounds like the tension between the five people involved, the arrival of an additional person into the family, one family member's need for work-at-home space, and the dog's behavior issues all warrant a third bedroom.   Or, honestly, a fourth.  In case your DIL and your son ever want some privacy.  It sounds like your DIL's need for privacy is fairly intense - like I said before, I feel defensive on her behalf.  If I was sharing a two-bedroom apartment with my dh, my young child, and my MIL (plus nippy dog) I might find myself needing to travel a lot too.  My mental state would be dramatically worse if I not only lived in such a small space with all those people, but I worked from home.  I would feel like I never got a break.  That two week "vacation" in Vegas?  Is cheap compared to the therapy my kids would need if they were exposed to me after 3 weeks in those conditions.  It might be nice if your DIL could have some private space at home.  She could recharge herself locally and then be much more available to her dh and children.  You mentioned that you have consulted a couple agencies about occupancy limits in rentals in Las Vegas.  Have you consulted your son and DIL about their preferences? 

It sounds like the two-bedroom apartment situation you have now has been great for you.  According to your description, you have a huge bedroom and a bathroom all to yourself.  On the other hand, it sounds like your DIL is doing everything she can to flee the situation short of actually moving out.  Since her income is absolutely vital to your family (it sounds like she is the only one of you who works full-time on a regular basis, and thus is probably the source of not only a significant chunk of family income, but also of group health insurance for your medically fragile son and grandchildren), it makes sense to try to consider her comfort in choosing an apartment. 

More than occupancy limits, I think this is the issue that is causing so many posters to ask if two bedrooms is really a good idea.  

As I pointed out before, Vegas has some three and four bedroom rentals available.  

[Adaline'sMama]

**shock and awe**

children never deserve to get "bit" by animals. If a dog cannot control his temper around a child, the dog doesnt need to be in a home with children.