Getting a DOG, now adopt or buy? puppy or YA? schnauzer, cocker spaniel,.....? - Page 2

[swd12422]

Adopt from a breed-specific rescue. It's cheaper, they know the dog's temperament and can match you with one that will be a good fit, and most insist that if something happens and you can't keep the dog, they will take it back and rehome it for you instead of risking having it left at a shelter. It's a win-win for everyone, including the dog.

We adopted a retired greyhound when he was 2. They are big, but they lie around like (think large cat), don't bark or jump much and are very quiet and calm most of the time. They also don't have a 2-layer coat, so they shed very little (not at all if you give them a quick brush every day, but I don't do that...) and he hasn't bothered my allergies in 6 years. I never even knew I was allergic to dogs (we had a poodle growing up) but I tested positive during my initial tests at the allergist. The best thing about them is they come 95% house trained; it only takes a day or two for them to figure out not to mark the furniture. AND, they don't need to be walked as much as most large breeds. And... (sorry, I'm on a roll) they are bred for health, since they need to be strong to race well. They live an average of 12-14 years, so even if you adopt an older one you'll have him/her for a long time.

[starrlamia]

here are a few suggestions i have gotten so far

http://www.spdrdogs.org/

http://www.beaglerescue.org/

http://www.angelsunderourwings.com/main.php
http://www.csrbc.org/

(last 2 are BC based)

ETA

other breeds good with kids, not too high energy and mediumish sized

Pugs

Other spaniels: King Cavalier, American water, clumber, english springer, english toy

Basenji (one of my personal faves)

basset hounds

doxie

french bulldog

nova scotia duck tolling retreiver

corgi

scottish terrier

west highland terrier

sheltie

collie

poodle

whippet

Edited by starrlamia - 9/18/11 at 6:56pm

[nd_deadhead]

I applaud vtechmom for her list about reputable breeders! All of the things she mentioned are important. A good breeder isn't nearly as anxious to get rid of dogs as she is to find the right homes for them.

I'll put in a plug for Corgis. I'm on my second Cardigan (the one with a tail), and we adore them, but Pembrokes are much more common and easy to find. Pembroke Welsh Corgis are the ones the Queen of Englad has. They are delightful dogs - small enough to not overwhelm your house, but strong and active enough to hike all day. They are cheerful, friendly, and smart. They haev two sins - they bark and they shed, but frequent brushing keeps the shedding to a minimum, and they are smart enough to be trained not to bark inappropriately.

I love the path you are taking, OP - I know you'll find the right dog for your family.

[vegan2raw]

Wow!! Thanks to all the animal lovers responding. I enjoyed each of your posts. It has been a long few days, we went to a lady who we thought was reputable but it was puppy millish. So after that I found some good lists online for really reputable breeders. I have chatted with a few of them. They have been so helpful and one of them is even asking around if anyones show dogs are about ready to retire. My husband is pretty set on cockers I plan on showing him all the info you all gave but I think his <3 is set on them. I have found a puppy who is adorable and has really healthy lineage etc and I loved chatting with the breeder she is really nice, but the one drawback is she wants to co-own the dog. She just wants to breed her once in 2-3 years, she would pay stud fee and pick him and she would get the pick of the litter and then help me find homes etc for the puppies. She has never done this before and is totally open to me telling her what I want and she wants a contract (I would too) but neither of us have agreed on anything its still up in the air. She wants to do a home visit and introduce us to Lily etc and check out our home and children. She just lost her mom and otherwise would be keeping Lily but she is trying to help her Dad sell the house and go thru everything etc. I got a good feel from her but this is a whole new situation than I planned on going into so.... thoughts?

My husband BTW grew up on an organic farm in MT and has done all kinds of animal births and thinks it would be great and we could make some of education part of our homeschooling and have one of the babies, he is already excited so I am trying to be the thinker and slow him down a bit! My kiddos on the other hand have been watching dog training dvds and then pretending to be dogs training each other! lol

Thanks again~ I love this mothering board its wonderful!   

[starrlamia]

make sure you get in the contract that the dog needs to have health tests and titling done to be bred, i would do a bunch of searching on google about co-owns as I have known some people who have gotten screwed over by doing it. She should also be paying for the health tests, and any costs pertained to the breeding, vet checks, ultrasounds and the costs of raising the pups, as it can get pricey! I would talk to some of the contacts you have made at the breed clubs and have them give you an idea on the breeder and also on the proposed contract before you agree.

[vegan2raw]

Thanks Starr, very good suggestions. I have decided when she comes I will have a typed 'mock' contract stating my demands in order to be willing to do this. I have been doing a lot of soul searching and I know that whatever dog we get will become a member of our family and like one of our children. So I will see if she is willing to meet my requirements. She suggested we would split the money that is recieved when the puppies are adopted out. I think either the purchase price of Lily should be lower or we should get the bigger portion of that (60%/40% or higher) since we will be doing all the work in our home.

*contract dissolves after first litter

* health tests and registering costs will be to her/ or if they are to us then we get the adoption fees from the puppies

* all food/training and health decisions are up to us

*she can never take our dog from us

* she gets 1st pick from the 1st litter and that is all

* she gets to pick and pay for the stud granted that he is within the same size range our Lily is so as to not put her health at risk byt too big of stud/ litter

* we get one puppy if we so choose

* if anything happens to Lily (cesarean, etc) vet bills would be reimbursed from the puppy proceeds.

I might come up with more! Please feel free to make additions!

[starrlamia]

so nice to see! I agree that if you are paying for any of the costs of rearing the litter then you should be making the profit and not her, I would probably also have something in there that you get final say on the sire of the litter, obviously taking into consideration the reasons she is picking but if she comes up with a poorly bred dog then you get a say in it. Personally I wouldnt be breeding the dog if you are not planning on titling it, which is another expense on it's own. I would also think up something along the lines of if she is bred and it doesnt take, what you plan on doing, whether you will keep breeding for a litter or stop after a few tries. I would also think of an agreement on how you are going to place the dogs, and if any of the pups are returned by the owners if you or she will take them (there will have to be a spay/neuter puppy contract, and any responsible breeder will take the dogs back to avoid having them end up at shelters). If she is really pushing taking profit from the litter then I would say that Once all of the expenses of said litter (shots, worming, food etc) are dealt with THEN the profits can be divided up.

TBH I would say no, because most responsible breeders who co-own a bitch will take full responsability for all costs, including bringing the bitch into their home to whelp, raise and place the puppies. Too many breeders want to co-own dogs because they make money off of people who dont know better. And the fact that she isnt stressing titling the dog first and is placing the pup into a home that isnt well versed in breeding is a red flag to me. It would be much simpler IMO to have a bit of patience, keep talking to reputable breeders and wait for a litter to come up in which you can own the dog outright.

here are a couple good sites and discussions

http://www.greaterswiss.com/contracts.htm

http://www.prodoggroomingsupplies.com/dog-forums/showthread.php?t=36350

Originally Posted by vegan2raw 

Thanks Starr, very good suggestions. I have decided when she comes I will have a typed 'mock' contract stating my demands in order to be willing to do this. I have been doing a lot of soul searching and I know that whatever dog we get will become a member of our family and like one of our children. So I will see if she is willing to meet my requirements. She suggested we would split the money that is recieved when the puppies are adopted out. I think either the purchase price of Lily should be lower or we should get the bigger portion of that (60%/40% or higher) since we will be doing all the work in our home.

*contract dissolves after first litter

* health tests and registering costs will be to her/ or if they are to us then we get the adoption fees from the puppies

* all food/training and health decisions are up to us

*she can never take our dog from us

* she gets 1st pick from the 1st litter and that is all

* she gets to pick and pay for the stud granted that he is within the same size range our Lily is so as to not put her health at risk byt too big of stud/ litter

* we get one puppy if we so choose

* if anything happens to Lily (cesarean, etc) vet bills would be reimbursed from the puppy proceeds.

I might come up with more! Please feel free to make additions!

[Arduinna]

Ask yourself, right now with three small children and getting your first ( I think) dog as a family do you want a pet or do you want to get into breeding and showing? Because while a puppy is a lot of work and commitment, multiply that exponentially when you add in breeding and showing. There is also the risk that your dog could die from birthing, is that a risk you want to take considering your 3 little ones are going to be very attached to this dog? I'm really surprised that any reputable breeder would suggest this to someone who has approached them looking for a family pet. I know someone that got into cocker breeding in just this way, but they wanted to get into showing. My personal opinion is that this is not the best way to bring a family pet into the home. Do you really want someone you barely know being co-owner of your dog? This isn't a situation where you have been hanging around the show ring, know the ins and outs of co-owner contracts and are seeking a show puppy from someone you have developed an ongoing relationship with and are dying to title a dog as owner handler.

[vtechmom]

Originally Posted by starrlamia 

TBH I would say no, because most responsible breeders who co-own a bitch will take full responsability for all costs, including bringing the bitch into their home to whelp, raise and place the puppies. Too many breeders want to co-own dogs because they make money off of people who dont know better. And the fact that she isnt stressing titling the dog first and is placing the pup into a home that isnt well versed in breeding is a red flag to me. It would be much simpler IMO to have a bit of patience, keep talking to reputable breeders and wait for a litter to come up in which you can own the dog outright.

here are a couple good sites and discussions

http://www.greaterswiss.com/contracts.htm

http://www.prodoggroomingsupplies.com/dog-forums/showthread.php?t=36350

Yep, this!  No reputable breeder would be looking for a co-own with an inexperienced (to show dogs) family.  A reputable breeder would have also mentioned that the dog will only be bred if she achieves her championship AND passes all health tests PLUS has a proper temperament.  The fact that this woman is talking about breeding without a lot of caveats about the bitch needing to prove her quality and health first is a giant red flag.

I'd also stress that breeding is NOT for the faint of heart.  You can have situations of puppies born dead or deformed or dying within just a few days of birth.  You also need to be prepared to lose your pet during the birth.  My one dog (funny enough, a Greater Swiss Mountain Dog like those in the first link) comes from an extremely reputable breeder who is also a licensed veterinary technician who works at a veterinary hospital that specializes in breeding.  General recommendation is do not breed a bitch prior to 2, stop breeding by 6 or 7 years, and no more than 3 litters.  My girl's dam was 6 years old and my girl is from her 3rd litter and, what would have been, her final litter.  My dog's dam did not make it through the birthing despite being with an extremely experienced owner/technician/breeder AND getting her to a hospital when problems began showing so that she could have a c-section. 

That left the breeder mourning the loss of the bitch AND having to raise 8 puppies.  In a stroke of amazing luck a chocolate lab bitch gave birth that same day to a single puppy at the local shelter.  The breeder adopted the chocolate lab (plus her puppy) who was wonderful enough to take in the 8 Swissy puppies.  That is NOT the norm though and usually the breeder would have been left bottle feeding 8 puppies every 2 hours for weeks and weeks, plus dealing with the lowered survival rate of bottle fed puppies, and still mourning the loss of her dog.  

I am not against reputable breeders in the least but I'd strongly caution against it in your case.  Even three years from now, with three kids would you have time to potentially bottle feed 4 or 5 puppies every 2 hours around the clock?  I've actually strongly considered showing and breeding at some point in the future. I know right now though that for me, with two older kids and a baby on the way that it is totally unrealistic.  In the meantime I make contacts with breeders and do competitive obedience because I can have spayed dogs in that competition.

Cause I can't resist, this is my girl's litter including the adopted brother.  My baby is the one in the center with the one blue eye, which is a purely cosmetic fault but made her no good for showing conformation but perfectly good for everything else :)

[Arduinna]

Awe, adorable.



I've bottle fed orphaned puppies, it's exhausting and it wasn't even my dog nor did we foster the whole litter.

[nd_deadhead]

A reputable breeder selling a puppy to a pet home will insist that the animal be spayed or neutered. I agree that this co-ownership thing is a giant red flag.

Lots of breeders co-own dogs with other breeders, but that's not your situation at all. I would not only pass on the co-ownership idea, but look for another breeder.

[ananas]

Honestly, with young children- I would recommend a puppy, especially one where the parents have been temperament tested. Even adopting a puppy from the shelter, you can get a good early start on training and socialization, but you can't change genetics. I am all for adoption and rescuing, but I also know how important temperament can be when it comes to children. If you do want to adopt, I would recommend going to a rescue, and finding a dog who is still young (under 8-9 months), who is in a foster home, has been around children, and is properly socialized.

My advice would be to first figure out which breed you would like- you said under 50 pounds which gives you quite a bit of wiggle room. Schnauzers are very smart dogs- they're terriers. Like any terrier, they're going to be very energetic (maybe even hyper), stubborn, mischievous, and clever. Also, as a dog groomer, let me tell you- if they don't like something, they'll let you know, and usually they let you know with their strong, sharp teeth. I have a couple of mini schnauzers I groom who nipped their families as puppies and didn't stop as they got older. A big part of that is proper training and redirecting, though.

I personally wouldn't have a cocker because of the health problems, but I do think they're a better match for children than a terrier. Other recommendations: Brittany spaniels (they can be pretty energetic, too, but if you have a yard and three kids that should keep a dog pretty busy), King Charles Cavalier Spaniels (very sweet and gentle), pugs (great family dogs), poodles (very intelligent, although the small ones can tend towards being aloof and nervous, and may nip even at their family if they get taken by surprise).

Good luck!

[lilyka]

Maybe you could go middle of the road.  I adopted my dog from the humane society.  Her mom came in as a pregnant stray.  Sophie was put into foster care and raised her puppies until they were put up for adoption at 8 weeks.  We got the pick of the litter.  So adopted a stray, got a new puppy, met the mom (who was so amazing that i decided I wanted her rather than one of her puppies but she was taken by a staff member).  Although if I had it to do again I would get an adult dog.  Puppies are cute but they are terrors.

[vegan2raw]

Alright if anyone is even still following this we got our puppy!! Sorry so late on responding with Homeschooling and puppy life got busy fast! We went with a Mini Schnauzer who is now 10 weeks (had him two weeks and a couople days) His name is Hedley he was raised around a 10 month old and 10 year old, we were able to meet both parents and we Fully own him. He is not papered which makes no difference to us and his temperment and personality are wonderful. We decided to go with his breed after meeting a ton of different dogs we felt a schnauzer would be a better fit for our family. We are now looking around our area for some puppy classes where our older children can participate in. I was nervous about the work and our childrens ages but so far it has been great.

Thank you all so much for your time and opinions, I definately heeded your warnings and am very happy with our decision on our little guy (and on not co owning)

Will post some pics soon!

[aeterna]

vtechmom - holy AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!  Swissies are SUCH adorable puppies!

Grats on your new addition, OP! =)

[tank]

congrats on your new little guy!  I love schnauzers.  It is true that some of them have the crazy in them but they are terriers after all.  One thing I would reccomend (and I pretty much have to since I am a dog groomer) is to get him used to grooming early.  Like someone else mentioned they aren't reluctant to tell someone they don't like something being done to them.  Getting them groomed at an early age and regularly will really help them with that and teach them that things being done to them is normal like brushing and getting their nails done. 

[vegan2raw]

Thanks guys!

He is great and we have already had him to the groomer and vet of course. He is potty trained and learning so quick. We are all enjoying him and trying not to spoil him too much. He loves to play fetch and listens to the children just as well as us. So Thanks again for all of your advice it was so helpful and I am glad we did so much research, Hedley is a perfect fit for our family.