does an autism diagnosis excuse violent behaviour?

[moss]

hi

my son is on the spectrum, so i do have some experience in this area, and have read book after book about autism and behaviour, etc.  we mostly use a floortime/social stories/sensory diet/autism diet approach in our home, and any unacceptable behaviour patterns are taken care of really quickly.  we had a lot of problems when my son was younger.  i misguidedly was using tcs (taking children seriously) tactics with him, which was an epic fail.  he needs to know the boundaries and rules, etc and that kind of wishy washy approach was totally wrong for a kid like him.  anyways, he is a joy to be around now and is totally appropriate and kind to other children in social situations.  he has come a long way over the last few years and i'm really proud of him.

anyways, we are having problems now with another family who is using a philosophy that is very similar to tcs.  their son is wild and out of control.  he is extremely violent and unpredictable.  they are pursuing an autism diagnosis, but they are using this to excuse the child's behaviour.  as in, 'oh he has autism, it's okay, that's how he processes things'  in the meantime, other children are being injured by his violent behaviour.

how would you deal with this if your child was the one being injured and physically attacked?

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by moss 

how would you deal with this if your child was the one being injured and physically attacked?

I would keep my kid away from theirs, even if it meant ending a friendship.

If the children are in school together, I would take it up with the teacher/administration, not the parents.

I cannot control how other people parent, but neither of my kids are here to be punching bags for other children, whatever their dx.

[NiteNicole]

I think a diagnosis explains behavior, but it does not excuse parents form dealing with it.  You don't need to "punish" a child for something they can't help or handle, but you can't just let them keep doing whatever it is and expect other children to just suck it up.

My first priority is to protect my child.  We would avoid those people, honestly, which is sad because with some help and guidance and intervention on the part of his parents, he may have a shot at being a lot happier.  My child is five.  She doesn't really care about the difference between "processing" and "hitting because he's mean" - she just knows someone is hitting.

[FarmerBeth]

Yes to the two previous posts!  Your family is not responsible for dealing with the repercussions of another family not having worked things out yet.  Your responsibility is to keep your own family safe.   And, even if we were talking about between sibling behavior, it still holds, as a parent your responsibility is to keep all of your kids safe, even if it's from each other.   I probably wouldn't say anything much to the family, either.  Just as you came to the conclusion that tcs didn't work for your child, they'll probably come to a similar conclusion in their own time.  There's no reason to give yourself further stress by becoming more involved than they have asked for.

[moss]

thanks for all the replies.  this is the same conclusion that i have come to.  it is very difficult for us to avoid these people, but my priority is to keep my son safe.  my son will be starting martial arts this fall as well, so i'm hoping that some self defense skills will help as well.

[Piglet68]

As the mother of an autistic child who can get physically aggressive with other kids (hitting etc), I will state that I believe it is MY responsibility to keep other kids' safe from my son.

If he is in a social setting I stay very close to him and monitor him so I can watch for any signs of frustration that may lead to an outburst from him. I can tell you that this is exhausting, and has resulted in me all but ignoring my older child. So we are getting some help in the form of a special assistant through autism funding (we only just realized he may be autistic and have just completed the assessment process). 

With that said, I feel a lot of sympathy for this other parent. She is probably trying her best, is perhaps in over her head, and is wanting to do the best for her son. If I were you, I would try to reach out to her (if you haven't already) and let her know that you appreciate how hard it is to be in her shoes. You can then gently let her know that you are concerned about your children's safety and are wondering what you could do to help make the environment safer for everybody. Don't go telling her that her discipline approach is wrong or not working - parents like us have heard that from day one and it becomes a very sore subject and a sensitive issue. Just because TCS didn't work for your child doesn't mean that her using TCS is basically setting your kid up to get hurt. 

Anyways, I think if you haven't tried this approach it is worth it. I'm sure this mother is having a horrible time, and I know because I've lived that myself over and over again. It's no fun watching your child hurt other kids. I try my best and I'm pretty good at keeping things safe but there will always be that one occasion when I turn my head for a second...and believe me I feel like sh*t when that happens. By being supportive and empathetic to her you probably stand a good chance of being a good influence on her and perhaps sharing your wisdom and experience with her in a way she would be grateful for. Just please try to remember that being in her shoes is not something I'd wish on any mother, and treat her with as much sympathy as you can. 

Obviously if you have spoken with her and nothing is changing then I would simply keep my kids away from her. 

[Eyelet]

I very much agree with the previous responses concerning the other parents.  As far as aggression as an excuse for autism diagnosis, IMO it really depends one each individual child and how effected they are. My son is severe on the spectrum and has had ongoing aggression issues for years... he's been through multiple therapies, diets, medications, supplements but he still has issues with it on a daily basis (hits, throws, etc.). I just want to point out that a child may still have issues despite the best efforts of the parents. 

[moss]

honestly, if my child was that violent on a day to day basis, i would not be putting him into situations where he would be able to hurt other children. both for his sake and for theirs.  i would want his social experiences to be positive and would make sure that he was completely fully supported so that he would not hit/kick/throw things.  if putting him into group situations with other kids who are noisy, unpredictable, and are obviously going to set off his triggers is going to provoke violence, i would not be "going there" with him.  ykwim?  i would be looking at therapeutic envionments with trained personnel who would be able to coach him step by step on appropriate social behaviour.

i would also be seriously looking at medications.  i know another boy on the spectrum who was so out of control and violent that as he grew larger, his caregivers had to actually call the police on more than once occasion because he was so dangerous.  he's now on meds, and is so much happier and so much less volatile and angry.  his social experiences are positive and he's doing really great.  he would never be in that place without the meds though.

i'm having a hard time understanding why a parent would let their child hurt another child.

i just dont get it.

if it was an adult hurting another adult, it's really crystal clear what would happen. it wouldnt be acceptable at all.

to piglet68 and Ixla, if your child was coming home covered in bruises from being attacked by a child with violence issues, would you still be as accepting and empathetic???

[beachcomber]

People often write off behavior problems in children because they are children. It's not acceptable but a lot of people do it. The only thing you can do is explain your concerns to the parent of the other child then keep your child away from the boy who is being aggressive. It's too bad but I don't see anything else that's feasible.

[Stephenie]

I have a really aggressive kid on the spectrum. And it is really hard. We avoid settings that are most likely to set him off. but frankly, he can be violent in most settings. We've tried meds, which helped. but gave him tremors. We will try again, but for now I try to stay close when he's with other kids and avoid loud places. It's hard. We' ve lost friends over it. But we ARE trying our hardest to do everything we can. He goes to multiple therapies. His behavior has taken over our lives. But we can't lock him inside all the time or it will just be worse with absolutely no social practice. That said, most of  his aggression is directed at me and my daughter and the aggression that does tend to come out towards other kids is typically a small slap, etc, nothing that causes real pain. Not that it is acceptable. but better than what he does to his family (bites, scratches, knocks over, punches etc etc etc) 

I understand how you'd want to keep your child out of harm's way, but I would try not to judge the family as dismissing the behavior. Maybe they are, but it is a serious problem for some kids on the spectrum that can be REALLY hard to work past. 

[beachcomber]

Thanks for saying that, Stephenie. It's good to be reminded that there are some serious issues that kids and families contend with as part of being on the spectrum. But that families work hard at dealing with them, sometimes with little to show for all that hard effort and frustration and so on. It's easy to judge. You're right. It's harder to listen and accept, especially when the behavior is so out of line with what's considered acceptable.

[Zan&Zav]

I just wanted to add this, my son is on the spectrum, he is 5. He is generally as a rule not aggressive. He has been in therepy since age 2. A week ago, at a playground we go to 3 days a week, he bit a little girl. I had turned my back for a split second. I apologized to the girl and her mother, explained that he was on the spectrum and we are working with him and he generally doesn't behave that way. The other mother FLIPPED at me. I understand my son was in the wrong. I took him to the car and we sat for 45 mins talking about how he could have handled it differently. ( The other little girl was blocking the slide and wouldn't let him go down and was really in his face.) After we had talked I brought him back to the playground, staying right by his side, only to get a dirty look from the other mom, and her dragging her kid off the playground. I felt bad, but I can't lock my son up forever because he bit someone. I am not sure what I could have done to change the situation, he apologized as well. I just really ended up feeling like I was doing a crap job as a mother.

[Stephenie]

Originally Posted by beachcomber 

Thanks for saying that, Stephenie. It's good to be reminded that there are some serious issues that kids and families contend with as part of being on the spectrum. But that families work hard at dealing with them, sometimes with little to show for all that hard effort and frustration and so on. It's easy to judge. You're right. It's harder to listen and accept, especially when the behavior is so out of line with what's considered acceptable.

Thank you. It's so true. I am sure to outsiders we look like we're ignoring his behaviors. But that couldn't be further from the truth. It's just that nothing we've tried has worked yet. It's not as if I like having bite marks all over me and scratch marks all over my daughter. Or having to cut off all my hair so he'll stop pulling it. We try our hardest and we want him to learn this lesson. It's just happening REALLY slowly for us.