"Safe" posting of kid's pictures online? What is "safe"? xposted in TAO

[LCBMAX]

I'd like to hear what information you have about this subject, and how you made your choices for your family.

So far, here's what I understand as factual info:

1. there's a low likelihood of a predator seeing an image of your child and targeting them in real life but take precautions anyway and don't post images with identifiers
2. social websites like fb may have privacy controls to set so that the site itself doesn't have permission to use your images, and to control which of your contacts on that site have access to your images
3. web-based predators DO collect "innocent" images of children
4. advertisers sometimes use photos they find online without permission. To make it harder for them to do that, use watermarks and post only low-res images
5. sometimes families make a password protected, non-googleable blog and send out the login info to friends and family by email. BUT many folks in our email contact lists have inadvertently downloaded viruses, and have had their email accounts hacked, so the info is then even more easily available to other users

I'd love to know if there are any other considerations I'm missing, if anything I've listed is just dead wrong, and how you made these choices yourself.

Thanks!

[Annie Mac]

I'm not too worried about this stuff, but I did turn off the geo-tracking feature on my phone so when I take pictures there isn't an address embedded in it. I post pictures of my kid on FB regularly. I find it's a great way to share with friends and relatives. 

[philomom]

I don't post my kids pictures online. A friend of mine is a graphic artist and she knows just how easy it is to combine two innocent kid pictures into something that looks quite obscene.

[MacKinnon]

I'm simply not too worried about this stuff. I did turn off geo-tracking on my phone, and I have my FB account set to private, and I know and use all the privacy settings, as well as select who can see all my albums. Most are only for a "subset" of good friends and family. My attitude has been that there are many totally unprotected pics floating around the web, I'm not going to not share pics of my kids for fear of what someone might do. I share, but with a mind to caution and good sense.

[intrepidmother]

I started putting pics on FB of my kids, but I've stopped.  I don't trust social networking sites and I don't trust the Internet.  Once pics are on the Internet, they are there for good.... always in cyberspace.  I don't feel like I have the right to put my kids pics on the internet w/o their permission or knowledge.  

In about 10 years, there's going to be a whole generation of kids with their entire lives splashed on the Internet.  I think it's a mistake to believe your information is private.  The Internet is always changing and it changes quickly.  Who's to say things will stay the same and your information will stay private?

[Toposlonoshlep]

The nature of the internet is such that once you post a picture online, it is forever posted in cyberspace. Case in point, when one googles my name, my Friendster photos from 5 years ago still come up in image search, although I have deleted my account years ago. Even if your Facebook settings are set to super private, that doesn't stop your photos from showing up in google.

I don't post any pictures of my DS anywhere online on any shared or social sites. Not even for safety reasons, more out of respect for him and his individuality. When he is 16 and gets a profile himself, he will decide whether he enjoys having his image all over the web.

Oh, and I'm a web/media designer, so my career centers around technology and the internet. I just keep my son out of it. 

[mamazee]

I'm not worried about this and I want my family who live far away to keep up with and see photos of my kids, so I regularly post photos of them on Facebook.

[cald1905]

A friend just sent me this video https://mail.google.com/mail/?hl=en&shva=1#inbox/132874d5c0a1d161 which shows how the GPS feature, when turned on for pictures, can reveal the location of where the picture was taken.  There's an easy way to turn the feature off for the camera but continue to use it for maps, etc. on the smart phone.

I set my FB setting to only show photos to my friends and actually access to my FB is quite limited as I set it to be.

FYI,

Sandy

doula-la.com

[magnoliasmama]

I just wanted to point out that pictures aren't necessarily drifting in cyberspace forever. It really depends on the owner of the server and whether an image has been copied. Social networking sites have complicated "Terms of Service" and they are not without controversy. Basically, by using their site you are agreeing to their terms and your information is stored on their server. So, yes, your information can be stored for a while and you don't have control over it.

But, you can set up your own picture site on a server that you control by buying hosting or physically dedicating a server (can be any computer) in your own home. There is lots of open source software out there available to help any non-technical person maintain a blog or website, password protect what you need to, and disable the "right-click" copy feature on your images.

[Toposlonoshlep]

Yes, technologically those precautions can be taken. But with that said, even if you disable the right click feature, one can still take a screenshot. Once they're there, they're there. And, the "terms of service" in regards to privacy and sharing keep changing almost weekly. Just look at Facebook, which is what most people use. 

Originally Posted by magnoliasmama 

I just wanted to point out that pictures aren't necessarily drifting in cyberspace forever. It really depends on the owner of the server and whether an image has been copied. Social networking sites have complicated "Terms of Service" and they are not without controversy. Basically, by using their site you are agreeing to their terms and your information is stored on their server. So, yes, your information can be stored for a while and you don't have control over it.

But, you can set up your own picture site on a server that you control by buying hosting or physically dedicating a server (can be any computer) in your own home. There is lots of open source software out there available to help any non-technical person maintain a blog or website, password protect what you need to, and disable the "right-click" copy feature on your images.

[magnoliasmama]

Screenshots or caches can't be taken of content that is password protected and not open to the public. My point was that the internet does not necessarily store information forever. The information is controlled by the owner of the server. If you post to social networking sites, you are storing your information in their databases. If you post pictures to your own server, with password protected software installed you can easily control what is posted, deleted, who has access, and what they can do. I'm assuming you wouldn't give access to anyone who takes screenshots for nefarious purposes.

Our family doesn't have a problem with online pictures, but I just wanted to dispel the notion that things are out there "forever" because it simply is not true. There have been plenty of times that I have searched for a blog or image seen previously only to find the server returns no information and no caches have been made. Sometimes information is gone forever, never to be found again.

Not that credibility is any sort of reasonable argument, but I am a programmer specializing in web development and my husband builds UI's for a facebook gaming company.

[Toposlonoshlep]

But you (and I) have the advantage of technological skills. A lot of people who use the internet to share pictures of their kids don't have that knowledge. Or their own server. A lot of people also use shared computers, for example, at work. I know when I send photographs through e-mail, a lot of my friends and family open them at work. And a lot of them have had their e-mail hacked or fell for password-fishing sites. If you're giving anyone access to your server, unless you control where and how they view your images and where they store them on their computers, it still is dubious.
 

Originally Posted by magnoliasmama 

Screenshots or caches can't be taken of content that is password protected and not open to the public. My point was that the internet does not necessarily store information forever. The information is controlled by the owner of the server. If you post to social networking sites, you are storing your information in their databases. If you post pictures to your own server, with password protected software installed you can easily control what is posted, deleted, who has access, and what they can do. I'm assuming you wouldn't give access to anyone who takes screenshots for nefarious purposes.

Our family doesn't have a problem with online pictures, but I just wanted to dispel the notion that things are out there "forever" because it simply is not true. There have been plenty of times that I have searched for a blog or image seen previously only to find the server returns no information and no caches have been made. Sometimes information is gone forever, never to be found again.

Not that credibility is any sort of reasonable argument, but I am a programmer specializing in web development and my husband builds UI's for a facebook gaming company.

[LCBMAX]

I'm really loving the conversation - thanks everyone. I started the thread because in our house I'm the one with privacy concerns and no technological skills, and my husband is the tech-savvy not-concerned-with-privacy person. He wants to share our images in general, I only want to share them with folks who have passed my personal test of qualifications.

All of this has helped me clarify that some of my concerns are based in the real world (kid may someday not want his images around) and some are just my instincts (his spirit is in his picture!) 

Some spin-off threads/ ideas that I'm interested in:

how do parents with different points of view come to consensus, when and why to implement the Precautionary Principle, or not (see monarchgrrl's reply in TAO)

what do you tech-savvy folks do if you ARE interested in privacy

why are some tech-savvy folks NOT interested in privacy, what's your informed thinking

at what point do kids have right of refusal for parents sharing images

Thanks again!

[magnoliasmama]

But you (and I) have the advantage of technological skills. A lot of people who use the internet to share pictures of their kids don't have that knowledge. Or their own server.

Anyone can buy hosting on a shared server (like at GoDaddy... very secure) and set up their own family picture site and use open source software like WordPress/BuddyPress to create a small social network exclusively for ones own group. These programs are designed for non-technical users and have huge support communities. If you can't figure something out, you can ask around on the WP boards.

A lot of people also use shared computers, for example, at work. I know when I send photographs through e-mail, a lot of my friends and family open them at work. And a lot of them have had their e-mail hacked or fell for password-fishing sites.

I'm not sure why you would be sending pictures through email if you are worried about security... anyways I thought we were talking about posting pics online not sending them through email. They are a bit different in nature. If you send pictures through email, you are basically sending a copy and you loose control at that point.

 If you're giving anyone access to your server, unless you control where and how they view your images and where they store them on their computers, it still is dubious.

 You never give anyone full access to your server (common sense for server administration), that's what the password protection software/script is for. It's not like you are going to give out FTP access to your users (the people you want to be able to look at your photos). Even on a public computer, once the browser is closed login cookie information is destroyed. If only a login user can see your pics and no one is allowed to download them, I'm not sure why there would be a problem.

[cameragirl]

I recommend NOT using the high res upload option on Facebook. Use the older version that will compress your images some. If you use the high res service, Facebook can use your images for advertising and assumes the rights. I also do not use any cards for my dslr that have geotracking available. Nobody needs to know exactly where I took that image, especially since I do sell stock images.

[Toposlonoshlep]

I'm not entering a techy battle here (I am myself a web designer and programmer, so I am well aware of options), but in my opinion, a server like GoDaddy is no more "private" or "secure" than any other remote server. Same with WordPress. Anytime you pay for hosting and invite people to view your content, you are putting up private information in a place where you will not be able to control how it is viewed or shared. A friend of mine, for example, had her own hosting and, ironically, customized WordPress to share pictures with her family. When her husband left her and her two year old, he shared the site with his lover, her family, and other people who had access to his computer and even his log in for the site. They saved and printed pictures of her daughter. All I'm saying is that peopel change, relationships change, and the illusion of "security" on the internet fades. I DONT email pictures of my child to anyone. I e-mail pictures, yes, but they are very consciously chosen.

Originally Posted by magnoliasmama 

Anyone can buy hosting on a shared server (like at GoDaddy... very secure) and set up their own family picture site and use open source software like WordPress/BuddyPress to create a small social network exclusively for ones own group. These programs are designed for non-technical users and have huge support communities. If you can't figure something out, you can ask around on the WP boards.

I'm not sure why you would be sending pictures through email if you are worried about security... anyways I thought we were talking about posting pics online not sending them through email. They are a bit different in nature. If you send pictures through email, you are basically sending a copy and you loose control at that point.

 You never give anyone full access to your server (common sense for server administration), that's what the password protection software/script is for. It's not like you are going to give out FTP access to your users (the people you want to be able to look at your photos). Even on a public computer, once the browser is closed login cookie information is destroyed. If only a login user can see your pics and no one is allowed to download them, I'm not sure why there would be a problem.

[Toposlonoshlep]

This, for me, is kind of the crux of the choices and decisions I've made. Until my kid can tell me that he wants his picture shared, I don't feel empowered to use his image to make myself feel good. I also believe that images of people hold their spirit, or their essence in some way, and I have known WAY too many people that do not wish everyone well, judge harshly, and are nosy and ill-meaning. It's a very personal decision in the end. Possibly even a spiritual one.
 

Originally Posted by LCBMAX 

All of this has helped me clarify that some of my concerns are based in the real world (kid may someday not want his images around) and some are just my instincts (his spirit is in his picture!) 

[TCMoulton]

Originally Posted by Toposlonoshlep 

This, for me, is kind of the crux of the choices and decisions I've made. Until my kid can tell me that he wants his picture shared, I don't feel empowered to use his image to make myself feel good. I also believe that images of people hold their spirit, or their essence in some way, and I have known WAY too many people that do not wish everyone well, judge harshly, and are nosy and ill-meaning. It's a very personal decision in the end. Possibly even a spiritual one.
 

I guess this means that you also do not send photo holiday cards to friends and family (which I love to do every year)

Personally I enjoy sharing photos of my kids with friends and family so I'm not too concerned. Honestly, if someone really wanted a picture of someone they could get a camera & take one while out in public

[Toposlonoshlep]

No, that's what that means. I send holiday cards every year too. I never really thought to even use photo cards. I certainly appreciate when I get them though. We hand-make ours and write a poem for each friend.  
 

Originally Posted by TCMoulton 



I guess this means that you also do not send photo holiday cards to friends and family (which I love to do every year)

Personally I enjoy sharing photos of my kids with friends and family so I'm not too concerned. Honestly, if someone really wanted a picture of someone they could get a camera & take one while out in public

[magnoliasmama]

Originally Posted by Toposlonoshlep 

A friend of mine, for example, had her own hosting and, ironically, customized WordPress to share pictures with her family. When her husband left her and her two year old, he shared the site with his lover, her family, and other people who had access to his computer and even his log in for the site. They saved and printed pictures of her daughter. All I'm saying is that peopel change, relationships change, and the illusion of "security" on the internet fades.

This really can't be considered an internet security problem anymore, but just and issue of interpersonal trust. He could have just as easily shared print pictures with his new lover. He also could have made print copies, or if he is the child's father he could take his own pics and shared them as well.

Obviously we are going to just have to agree to disagree, but I am going to end by saying that it ***is*** possible to create a secure space on the internet for yourself. Just as it is possible to create a secure home in the middle of a populated city using keys, locks, gates, and such... you can create a space to share pictures using common internet security practices. Are there occasional security breaches over the internet, of course, but all kinds of private parties, corporate entities, and government agencies manage to store highly sensitive information accessed over the internet everyday. The likelihood that some perv will go through the trouble of hacking into your site for totally innocent family photos seems to border on paranoia. It would be easier to just wait for a JcPenny's circular.