Opinions on canine vaccines please

[Rik-E]

  So what are your opinions of dog vaccines? (thoughts on other dog meds also) I asked this in a couple of other online groups but they are really mainstream 'do whatever the vet tells you & don't question it' types so I didn't get any info or real opinions.

 Good, bad, or neutral opinions welcome! Any research or info to back up your opinion? If you only do some why those specific ones?

 Also is there a good site to find info on what the actual diseases / illnesses are & how serious they are?

 I know several people that have seen dramatic personality / temperament changes with vaccinating thier dogs. Also people whose dogs have gotten the illness from the vaccines, much like people vaxes can cause. Personally my son's previous companion dog got parvo EVERY time she had the any parvo vaccine or booster. Seriously aggravating!

 I did extensive research into human vaccines before making an educated decision for our family. Up until now we have adopted from the shelter so dogs came pre-vaxed & 'fixed'. With the new pup we adopted from a local family and he has had nothing so far. We are researching heart worm medication options & plan on neutering when he is old enough.

  The pup is a 'Pomchi'. He is about 12 weeks now and 2.3 pounds. He belongs to my 8 year old son and is being trained as an anxiety therapy companion for him. This means that the dog will be accompanying us on camping trips, car rides daily, and going into stores or locations such as our church that are accepting of therapy animals. We don't normally go to dog parks or take our animals into the pet store. We live in Alaska so certain considerations are not big issues in this area.

[lonegirl]

OK....coming from the veterinary field....I have seen waaaay too many pups fall ill/die from parvovirus...totally preventable with vaccines. We do a combo vaccs of DHPP (distemper/hepatits/parinfluenza/parvovirus) optional bordetalla (for those who board/use dog parks), 3 year Rabies (after 2 consecutive years), optional Lepto (depending on exposure risks). As pups we do booster of dhpp at 8/12/16weeks (before 8wks it is not needed because of maternal antibodies) at 16wks we also do rabies.

In 15 + years I have seen 1 maybe 2 serious reactions and handful a year of mild reactions.  For those we know that have had a reaction in past we give benadryl to before the vaccine.

By law rabies is required here and many places.

http://indoorpet.osu.edu/  We use this site frequently for client information...feel free to check out our hospital too www.cabbagetownpetclinic.com we have lots of useful information there too!

[Rik-E]

Thank you for the answer!  I will check out the sites after my kids are in bed.
 

Originally Posted by lonegirl 

OK....coming from the veterinary field....I have seen waaaay too many pups fall ill/die from parvovirus...totally preventable with vaccines. We do a combo vaccs of DHPP (distemper/hepatits/parinfluenza/parvovirus) optional bordetalla (for those who board/use dog parks), 3 year Rabies (after 2 consecutive years), optional Lepto (depending on exposure risks). As pups we do booster of dhpp at 8/12/16weeks (before 8wks it is not needed because of maternal antibodies) at 16wks we also do rabies.

In 15 + years I have seen 1 maybe 2 serious reactions and handful a year of mild reactions.  For those we know that have had a reaction in past we give benadryl to before the vaccine.

By law rabies is required here and many places.

http://indoorpet.osu.edu/  We use this site frequently for client information...feel free to check out our hospital too www.cabbagetownpetclinic.com we have lots of useful information there too!

[starrlamia]

agree with lonegirl, vaccines are very important, I follow dr. dodds vaccine protocol as studies have shown that they do not need yearly vaccines after one year, assuming they had all of their boosters. Usually every three years.

[cameragirl]

I always went with the recommended vaccines for our area. Our last dog had autoimmune issues, and the vet recommended spacing out vaccines as far as possible. We always did parvo, and did a 3 year rabies instead of 1 year. Other vaccines were skipped per the vet's recommendation to prevent a reaction. However, if I were showing the dog, frequenting parks, etc. I wouldn't have skipped those vaccines.

[Rik-E]

We would not be frequenting any places with large amounts of dogs. We don't go to dog parks or take the animals into pet supply stores. Basically the child will carry the tiny dog around for comfort and companionship, into people places when allowed.
 

Originally Posted by cameragirl 

I always went with the recommended vaccines for our area. Our last dog had autoimmune issues, and the vet recommended spacing out vaccines as far as possible. We always did parvo, and did a 3 year rabies instead of 1 year. Other vaccines were skipped per the vet's recommendation to prevent a reaction. However, if I were showing the dog, frequenting parks, etc. I wouldn't have skipped those vaccines.

[Rik-E]

I looked up Dr Dodd's protocol & we may use that as a guide.

Originally Posted by starrlamia 

agree with lonegirl, vaccines are very important, I follow dr. dodds vaccine protocol as studies have shown that they do not need yearly vaccines after one year, assuming they had all of their boosters. Usually every three years.

[starrlamia]

keep in mind that some illnesses (like parvo) can be brought in on your shoes, and even if you place the dog in grass that isnt in your yard, completely fenced in and lacking any animals coming and going (squirrels, mice, raccoons etc) that it can still be caught.

What kind are you getting?

[cameragirl]

Originally Posted by starrlamia 

keep in mind that some illnesses (like parvo) can be brought in on your shoes, and even if you place the dog in grass that isnt in your yard, completely fenced in and lacking any animals coming and going (squirrels, mice, raccoons etc) that it can still be caught.

What kind are you getting?

That is definitely true. Doesn't Parvo hang around longer than most viruses would? I believe it survives much longer without a host than others. Unless you are breeding, most animal owners don't practice strict bio-security. Heck, I know that I don't. We do change our clothes immediately when we get home if we've been around chickens/rabbits if we don't know their vaccination/health status, though. Not wearing your shoes in the house can help, too. Your vet or local ag extension can tell you which diseases are prevalent in your area. Another thing to consider is heart worm. In our area it is regularly 55* during the day in the colder months, so we never get a break from the fleas or heart worm.

Enjoy your new pet.

[starrlamia]

yah, you need to super clean your house and yard after a parvo incident, there is special cleaning fluid to use. I dont practice strict bio-security either, but both my dogs are adults, when we had a small pup we were extremely careful with him.
 

Originally Posted by cameragirl 



That is definitely true. Doesn't Parvo hang around longer than most viruses would? I believe it survives much longer without a host than others. Unless you are breeding, most animal owners don't practice strict bio-security. Heck, I know that I don't. We do change our clothes immediately when we get home if we've been around chickens/rabbits if we don't know their vaccination/health status, though. Not wearing your shoes in the house can help, too. Your vet or local ag extension can tell you which diseases are prevalent in your area. Another thing to consider is heart worm. In our area it is regularly 55* during the day in the colder months, so we never get a break from the fleas or heart worm.

Enjoy your new pet.

[vtechmom]

I totally agree that parvo is VERY scary and definitely something to vaccinate for.  I do dhpp at 8/12/16 weeks and rabies at 22 weeks (not required by law here until 6 months so I push it as close as possible since it can be a highly reactive vaccine).  After that I titer test for parvo/distemper every 3 years and re-booster if necessary, and then vaccinate for rabies as required by law (one year after initial vaccine then every three years).  

Parvo can survive in a house for up to 30 days and in the ground for up to a year despite freezing or extremely hot weather.  To kill parvo you just need bleach, but at a higher than normal concentration from what is normally recommended for cleaning.

I do not bother with bordetella, my experience is that it is a mostly useless vaccine and while not common it is possible to for it to cause whooping cough in a human.  I'm due any day now and having a live vaccine that is a form of whooping cough given to my animals is not something I'm comfortable doing.  I've also rarely seen it work.  The vet I work for is the vet of choice for a local boarding facility.  The boarding facility requires all dogs to have had bordetella vaccine within 6 months, so every dog there is recently vaccinated, though they must have been vaccinated at least a week prior to boarding.  They have had multiple outbreaks anyway and the vaccine seems to do little to stop the illness since it has spread like wildfire through the kennel each time it has shown up (and we do test for it during each outbreak).    It is also only considered a mild disease except in very young and very old or health compromised dogs.  If for some reason I had to board my old girl I might consider it, but that would be the only time I'd even think about it.

Leptospirosis I haven't done though am considering it.  It is an extremely reactive vaccine and must be given at least yearly to be effective (some studies recommend every 6 months) but there have been a few lepto cases within an hour of this area.  So far I'm still leaning towards no, but that could change.

Lyme I won't do, again it's reactive and must be done yearly.  There is also a lot of conflicting studies on lyme disease in dogs.  It can absolutely cause serious illness, but there is also evidence that shows that many dogs are probably able to fight it off on their own.  I prefer checking often for ticks (takes a minimum of 48 hours and more likely 72 hours of a tick being attached for it to transmit lyme) and treating if symptoms present.

[Rik-E]

Thank you all for your info!  It has given me a lot to research & consider.

One more question -- our Pup is already about 12 weeks -- for the DHPP should we just start the set of 3 now? Do it at 13, 17, 21 weeks since he is already this old?

[lonegirl]

What we do at our hospital if a booster is missed is do DHPP at 12/13 weeks then in 3-4 weeks we boost DHHP and do rabies (and if doing bordetella) at that time.
 

Originally Posted by Rik-E 

Thank you all for your info!  It has given me a lot to research & consider.

One more question -- our Pup is already about 12 weeks -- for the DHPP should we just start the set of 3 now? Do it at 13, 17, 21 weeks since he is already this old?

[Imakcerka]

I give all vaccinations up until they are 2.  Then I stop unless there is something in our area that we need to vaccinate against.  I have nothing against Vets, I think they're great I was just unlucky enough to go to the wrong one for the first few years.  When I found my newest Vet he pretty much told me that we really should only worry about what's in our immediate area.  Especially since we don't travel with them.  However if we do go somewhere we'll definitely vaccinate for what we might come up against. 

Our neighbors dog had Parvo, I felt bad for the dog but not for them.  They just didn't take her in to get any shots.  They also didn't keep the yard clean, or remove standing water and feces.  Obviously they brought it into their enviroment.  On top of that the dog had worms from ingesting fleas.  For things like that I don't even consider doing anything other than taking them into a Vet. 

[Mirzam]

I am going to give the opposing view. Just as would never vaccinate my children, I would never vaccinate my dog. I also do not do use chemical wormers, or flea/tick meds. I have a beautiful 14 month old mastiff who is in perfect health. If you are interested in learning more about how to raise a puppy without vaxes or chemicals and on a species appropriate raw food diet, I would be more than happy to provide you with information and resources, but I won't foister them on you, its your dog, your choice and it sounds like you are planning on vaxing anyway.

As for parvo I have a very interesting article on the virus with information that I doubt you would would get from a vet and would be happy to PM you a copy. Parvo is a man made virus that emerged around 1978 and was likely the result of the distemper vax. The parvo vaccine is now likely the cause of the spread and mutation of the virus. Keeping your puppy away from the vet and vaccinations will go a long way to preventing parvo.

If you are going to vaccinate, please don't give the 5 in 1 puppy shot, give the individual vaxes spaced out.

[Rik-E]

I would LOVE the info please!!!   The only vax I would normally do is the Rabies as there are no legal exemptions available & it is required here. But we hope to get this pup certified as an assistance animal eventually, which required all the recommended vaxes.  :-/
 

Originally Posted by Mirzam 

I am going to give the opposing view. Just as would never vaccinate my children, I would never vaccinate my dog. I also do not do use chemical wormers, or flea/tick meds. I have a beautiful 14 month old mastiff who is in perfect health. If you are interested in learning more about how to raise a puppy without vaxes or chemicals and on a species appropriate raw food diet, I would be more than happy to provide you with information and resources, but I won't foister them on you, its your dog, your choice and it sounds like you are planning on vaxing anyway.

As for parvo I have a very interesting article on the virus with information that I doubt you would would get from a vet and would be happy to PM you a copy. Parvo is a man made virus that emerged around 1978 and was likely the result of the distemper vax. The parvo vaccine is now likely the cause of the spread and mutation of the virus. Keeping your puppy away from the vet and vaccinations will go a long way to preventing parvo.

If you are going to vaccinate, please don't give the 5 in 1 puppy shot, give the individual vaxes spaced out.

[starrlamia]

actually parvo is a mutation of a similar viruse, as far as I know they are not 100% sure of which, but it could be from wild dogs, raccoons or even cats (they all have their own version of parvo), there is no solid science to show that it was a result of the distemper vax or has any relation to it.

[Imakcerka]

I thought parvo came from cats?  Theres a human form which is Fifths disease.  Almost any animal can get a strain of parvo.  The problem with vaccinations for animals is that they don't keep up with them like they do humans.  Parvo is constantly adapting. 

The best way to help your dog stay parvo free is by keeping them away from other dogs when they're puppies, introducing them to a clean enviroment and keeping all feces cleaned up.  I do vaccinate my puppies.  I don't like to but I don't want to be sorry.  I love my animals!  As they get older I stay away from vaccines, I've had my Beagle off all his meds and vaccines for quite a few years now.  He was supposed to die according to our old vet.  Once I changed his diet and took him off his meds, his lethargy went away.  And he's still alive.  This was also after two positive heartworm tests... and 4 negative.  The vet couldn't explain to me why a dog taking his heart worm regularly, kept from other dogs, (cause this beagle is a jerk) spends his afternoons sunbathing on the back porch in a clean backyard, with no standing water could get heartworm.  Well he didn't have it.  I had them test him regularly after that and they called me all sorts of things for not doing their heartworm treatments.  And they didn't apologise for their treatment after the 4 negative tests either.  AGAIN, he's still alive and he's doing pretty darn well!  I wish that I didn't have this experience with this vet since now I'm forever distrustful.

[Mirzam]

Originally Posted by starrlamia 

actually parvo is a mutation of a similar viruse, as far as I know they are not 100% sure of which, but it could be from wild dogs, raccoons or even cats (they all have their own version of parvo), there is no solid science to show that it was a result of the distemper vax or has any relation to it.

Actually, canine parvovirus is very similar to the long known feline panleukopenia virus (FPV). Soon after its appearance, parvo was classified as a mutation of FPV – in fact, the first vaccines used against parvo were FPV vaccines. Prior to the parvovirus outbreak, the only widely-used vaccine for dogs was distemper. At some point, cats’ kidneys were used to develop the distemper vaccine and this was shipped around the world and injected into dogs. Another possibility is that cats that were vaccinated for FPV shed that vaccine through their feces – a very real risk with modified live vaccines. The feline parvovirus could have easily mutated into canine parvovirus. Regardless of how canine parvovirus originated, it is well accepted that it is a man-made disease and it is the result of vaccination, either for canine distemper or FPV. This much is obvious because the outbreaks were sudden and massive and they first surfaced in countries that regularly vaccinated dogs and cats, this is why it is unlikely it came from wild dogs or racoons.

 

 

[Mirzam]

Originally Posted by Rik-E 

I would LOVE the info please!!!   The only vax I would normally do is the Rabies as there are no legal exemptions available & it is required here. But we hope to get this pup certified as an assistance animal eventually, which required all the recommended vaxes.  :-/
 

I will be happy to. I am in a rush this morning but I will get back to it later.