How can you figure out their reading level? - Page 2

[FarmerBeth]

Originally Posted by moominmamma 

I think it's very common to see more differentiation in reading than math. I think schools recognize that literacy is partly dependent on developmental readiness, and therefore 'clicks' at different ages, resulting in a big range in ability in an age-levelled classroom. However, they often labour under the illusion that early math ability is about teaching, rote memory, practice and drill, and therefore a lockstep approach is all that's needed. Or that advanced kids can always benefit from more drill of the basics. There's also a fear that if kids get a year or two ahead in math, they'll "run out" of elementary school curriculum, and then what will they do in 6th grade? 

That's great that meemee has seen a real willingness to differentiate in math. My limited experience with our public elementary school suggests that reading differentiation is much more likely than math.

Miranda

I don't want to hi-jack the reading with math talk, so a quick comment.

I find that many elementary teachers aren't mathematical thinkers.  They see math as rote learning because they think it in verbal language and not visual spatial math language.  Thus the "Kids get the right answers without understanding" message.  I had the amazing opportunity as a kid to be in a mathematics club (all kids doing the national mathematics competition) and we were pulled out for our own class weekly, and got to really play with and be creative with math. I still love math, and will do math puzzles to relax.  I love calculus!  I have elementary teachers telling me "All kids hate math" if I try to broach the subject of making math more interesting for my daughter.  I couldn't find anything like a math club for my 2E son, who does love math (and sometimes the teachers act like this is pathological) and in his case Asperger's and verbally explaining method (the way it's done in typical elementary education) were a bad match.  Finally, he got a teacher last year who allows drawing and pattern mapping (with numbers) the thought process, rather than explaining or repeating her method.  It made a big difference and we got a lot more help with giving him math at his level (he's in grade 5 and at about grade 8 level for math), but at lower volume as his speed is behind.  He gets to test with grade level material, and the higher level stuff is enrichment to keep up interest.

As for the reading, I think a higher reading level is much more apparent to the average classroom teacher.  Really, she/he could simply get the child to read aloud from a boook at the suspected higher reading level, and ask a few comprehension questions.  It should be pretty apparent if they are ready for more.

[ollyoxenfree]

Originally Posted by LynnS6 

The good news is that they've agreed to let dd and 2 other 2nd graders take part in the Oregon Battle of the Books, even though it's supposed to be 3rd-5th grade. So, she'll get pulled out once a week for discussing these books, and then answering questions about them. The books range from 3rd to 5th grade level, with most solidly in 4th grade level. She's so excited to be part of this. She's too young to participate in the official competitions, but it's unlikely that a 2nd grader, no matter how advanced, would beat out 5th graders who've been doing this for 3 years.

Hooray for good news! The Oregon Battle of the Books looks interesting, there are a few titles that I'm not familiar with but they look good. Just a heads up, in case your dd is sensitive, a couple of the books have some serious and possibly disturbing content for a younger reader. Number the Stars is set during WWII and deals with the Holocaust. Among the Hidden is a dystopian novel about tyranny and a rigid two-child policy for each family to control overpopulation, and the third-born child protagonist's life depends on remaining hidden. I haven't read Number the Stars, but I have read other Lowry titles and she's an excellent writer. I have read Among the Hidden and it's a very good introduction to some political and social concepts, but it may be tough for some 7 y.o.'s (2nd grade). I'm not saying that the books shouldn't be on the list or shouldn't be read, I'm just saying "heads up" if you weren't familiar with them. I think both are usually taught in later elementary or even middle school. I probably wouldn't bother raising the issue except for the recent thread in Learning at School, questioning Sept. 11 memorials for primary grade students. 

[moominmamma]

Originally Posted by ollyoxenfree 

Number the Stars is set during WWII and deals with the Holocaust. 

For anyone familiar with the Holocaust it's clearly about the Holocaust, but it does do an impressive job of "not going there" specifically. For the unenlightened reader, it's just about the Jews avoiding capture during WWII, and the story set in Denmark is compelling enough to stand on its own. Many young kids may not think to ask what the Nazi's were intending after capturing the Jews, since "capture" is a well-recognized part of their mental construct of war. I read the book to my kids who were, oh, maybe 6, 8 and 11 at the time and only the 11-year-old knew that there was an elephant in the room.

Miranda

[ollyoxenfree]

Originally Posted by moominmamma 

For anyone familiar with the Holocaust it's clearly about the Holocaust, but it does do an impressive job of "not going there" specifically. For the unenlightened reader, it's just about the Jews avoiding capture during WWII, and the story set in Denmark is compelling enough to stand on its own. Many young kids may not think to ask what the Nazi's were intending after capturing the Jews, since "capture" is a well-recognized part of their mental construct of war. I read the book to my kids who were, oh, maybe 6, 8 and 11 at the time and only the 11-year-old knew that there was an elephant in the room.

Miranda

It's good to know that the novel itself isn't too explicit. It sounds like it would be easy enough to avoid problematic details or at least manage them as a family readaloud. This is part of a larger program that includes discussion and answering questions, so it's difficult to know exactly what the students may encounter in the classroom. If I had a sensitive child or one who was likely to pursue details about the Holocaust, I might want to do a little groundwork first, or speak with the teacher or librarian who will be working with the children to find out a little more about what is planned for the discussions. 

[LynnS6]

The Oregon Battle of the Books is fantastic. There is a national one, and some other states have them, but in Oregon the program is huge. Our school (67% ESL, 80% poverty) fields about 8 teams. The high income schools field a lot more.

Yes, I've looked at all the titles, and talked to the librarian. She was worried that some of the titles would be too hard/disturbing. But since dd did OK with the Harry Potter series, I think she can handle this. If she can't, she can stop reading it. We always read parts of the books they're reading out loud at bedtime, and so that's a good time to discuss them too.

Ds read Number the Stars last year at age 9 for his advanced reading group and was fine with it, and he's pretty sensitive. He also read Among the Hidden and most of the follow-up novels last year. He wasn't bothered at all. I am a little worried about dd and that one. I, personally, have a very hard time with dystopian novels. But, since she's a "junior" member, she doesn't have to read all of them. Actually, the kids only agree to read 8 of the 16. Now, the teams that win have all kids reading all the novels (usually twice). But right now, I'm glad she's in a group of kids who like to read and talk about books. If she skips a few, that's OK. She's already read 11 Birthdays. She's done OK with the American Girl books about Addy, and we've had some talks about slavery, unfair wages for the servant class (based on Samantha books) and the like. As long as it's not personally threatening, I think it'll be OK. Her biggest fears are robbers and waves.

I think being with the older kids will be good for her, too, in that she'll have some role models for regulating her emotions. We're having real trouble with emotional regulation right now. Sigh.

[ollyoxenfree]

If she's reading Harry Potter, then she'll probably be fine with the titles. In the later books, especially, the Harry Potter series is fairly dystopian in nature. 

My dc participated in a similar book challenge and I agree, these are fantastic programs. I think the book list typically included 10 fiction and 10 non-fiction titles, which was terrific for the students who weren't particularly interested in novels. It seemed like almost every year, there would be conflict about a selected title - subject-matter or language or age-appropriateness or something that caused a ruckus. Because the students didn't have to read every book on the list to participate in the program, the protests were usually manageable.

Since she enjoys this reading program, perhaps the school librarian (or a dedicated parent volunteer) could continue with a multi-age book club for enthusiastic readers after the Battle of the Books ends.