How do you gentle discipline in a situation like this...Help!!

[Angelsofmine]

Hi all, I m new to the forum and I'm very glad I found a forum like this!
My son is about 27 months old and I also have a 5 month old baby girl. With everything I have read I believe gentle discipline is the right way for our family, but right now I really dont know how to handle this situation....
For the most part my son is a happy smart sweet curious 2 year old, the problem lately has been his nap time, he doesn't want to go to sleep. I have been telling him, he doesn't have to go to sleep but he has to be quiet during nap time because now it's quiet time. He would refuse to stay quiet he would mumble some words then scream really loudly. I repeatedly tell himto stop and what infuriates me is that he thinks it's funny when i give him the "I mean business look". He laughs and throws himself at me or his poor sleeping baby sister. There are a few times I told him I need to leave the room because he is too loud and right now is quiet time. Once I leave the room he cry hysterically and I really don't like the way he chase after me when i leave the room either. I usually go back in the room no less than 3 minutes and talk to him about why I left the room and make him apologist and give him a hug. But he continue doing this and the baby gets waken up during the whole thing anyway.
How do I gentle discipline a child in this situation.. There are a few time I almost lost it, not only the baby need the nap i do too.. I also think he is too young to give up napping also..Please help any suggestion is welcome, thanks!

[Mom31]

Could you possibly have him lay down in your bed with you and the baby all cuddled up? That is what I ended up doing with my two who were both little together.... Hugs mama. This time will pass.

[Angelsofmine]

Hi emilie, thanks for your quick reply, sorry I didn't indicate it in my earlier post, but this happens when we are all laying down on the family bed. We co sleep with our kids, i used to love it until I have to put 2 babies to sleep... Now it has become stressful during nap/ sleep time. I m always worry one is going to wake up the other...Sometimes I wonder if it would be easier if I train them to sleep on their own.. Maybe then I can just shut the door when it's time ...

[Mom31]

No that's probably not best... tho maybe you want to get some help during nap time to help your younger child get used to being in his room alone.  ... Like during non nap times have him go in there and play alone? you could find something to entertain him when you get baby down somehow and promise him special time with you once baby is down I do this with ds now and he is 8. I tell him if he can just be quiet while I get sissy down( who is 5) than he can stay up with me for a little bit and we can talk or read or whatever  but only if he is quiet. Could your little boy comprehend this ?

[jlsmama]

My DS is around the same age and I've recently noticed a need for his naptime to shift 30 mins to 1 hour later. Might this be the case for yours? How is his night sleep?

Also, the laughing at your "business" face, in my opinion, is likely an indicator that the emotional tone is getting too intense for him (just as it is for you at that moment). Sounds to me like he might be trying to lighten the mood for both of you.

Might he need some one on one time with you and be trying to get it by getting playful at naptime when baby sister is sleeping? Would it be possible to have baby nap in a position further away from him so the two of you could have some personal snuggle time?

One thing is certain...his behavior is driven by an actual need (usually emotional) and not a desire to be defiant. He just does now know how else to communicate his need. If you can identify his need, you can meet it, and a met need will go away.

Wishing you peace.

[hakeber]

Gentle discipline is largely about reading a child's cues and trying to interpret what their needs are. Could it be he is over tired and needs a nap sooner, or that indeed he is not in need of a nap at that time at all? My super energetic DS gave up naps at about 20 months.  He simply didn't need them anymore (much to the chagrin of his daycare provider).  On the up side he slept (on his own, co-sleeping never really worked for him like it does sometimes for DD) for 12-14 hours at night for the next 3 years.

I know it's a horrible thought, but he may just be ready to move on from the midday sleep to a longer night stretch.

Is there anyway, you could have him play quietly in the living room with some toys or a video while you nurse the littlest to sleep in a craddle or a playpen, and then join him when she's asleep?

 I can imagine the idea of losing YOUR midday nap is awful, but...it is bound to happen eventually and probably long before your younger one is ready to give up naps. 

Other ways to handle this gently might be looking to diet changes...there are foods that encourage sleepiness like turkey if you eat meat and sour cherries, too.  High protein breakfasts instead of carb loaded breakfasts tend to help the body react to its needs more effectively.  I found my DS became a calmer and more reasonable person when I upped his am protein intake to 7 grams minimum. 

There is no gentle way to get a child to sleep who does not want to sleep.  There are ways to encourage sleep: back rubs. soft music, low lights, co-sleeping, soft cuddly toys, lullabys...but if the child doesn't want to sleep, there is precious little you can do. 

Some forums will advocate shutting the door and walking away and locking him in to cry it out...but this isn't one of them. :)

[transylvania_mom]

At 27 mo, he's still very little. I don't think you can convince him to be quiet.

I also believe you should get someone to help you. We had mil living with us for a while, and after that it was ds's TV time while dd napped. My ds was older (4.5 years gap between the two) and I still found it difficult to keep him quiet.

Your older child might also be ready to drop his naps. 27 mo is not too early.

[mamazee]

He's at an age where some kids will give up their nap. There are three things you can't force: input (eating), output (potty), and sleep. You can't make someone sleep when they aren't tired.

You could try switching his nap time by 30 minutes earlier to see if that works better, or 30 minutes later to see if that works better, because sometimes they're either overtired or not quite tired enough to get to sleep well. So I'd try switching nap time up both ways and see if he'll sleep, but if not I'd just give up nap time. He won't sleep if he doesnt' need a nap, and it'll just drive both you and him crazy to try to force it.

2-year-olds are still very young, and he will have a hard time being quiet thorugh a baby's whole nap. You might have to keep him quiet with a video or something if the little one cant' get to sleep while he's making noise.

It sounds like you're wanting this time for a nap for you? Unfortunately, if the 2-year-old won't nap, he won't nap, and he's too young to be up alone. I am not a fan of TV for the younger set, but I'd set him up with a movie and nap on the couch with him before I'd get into huge fights with him over something that is outside of his control (him not being tired and being too young to stay quiet for so long.)

[Triniity]

What about carrying the little one to sleep and do either a quiet activity with your son or go for a walk and have him in a stroller? This time is really, really difficult, when the little one still needs her sleep and big brother is not able yet to stay quiet. I don´t know how often DD did wake up her little brother and made me so angry of her! 

[pianojazzgirl]

Both my kiddos gave up the nap around 18mos.  It's possible he is transitioning to no-nap.  If that is indeed the case then what that would likely mean is some days he'll take a nap and some days not.

Have you tried letting him listen to audio books?  I understand from his point of view, if he is indeed ready to give up the nap (at least some of the time) it is pretty boring just lying in bed with mama and sister, yk.  Does he have "his own room" apart from the family bedroom?  (I know some families in which the dc, even though sharing the family bed still had "their room" with their toys, etc and a bed for whenever they end up leaving the family bed).  If so maybe you could try giving him some time in his room to relax and listen to stories.  Probably half the time he'd fall asleep anyway.  Or, if you're tired enough that you'd fall asleep through it, you could put on the audio book in your room.

If it is a day that you would be ok going without a nap how about taking them outside.  Let dd sleep in a carrier or stroller, and push ds in a stroller (double?) and see if he falls asleep too.  If not you could stop at a park and let him play while she sleeps.

[D_McG]

My son was also done with napping at that age.  When it was time for his sister's nap I put on a movie for him.  If he deliberately interrupted us (which he did for a while and I remember the frustration well) then he lost his 'special time' with me during her nap and had to go take a rest time himself.

If he stayed quiet while I put her down (did not take long at all) then we did a game or craft together.  

I think he only tested me once and then it was done.