"Keep your legs closed" - Page 9

[Imakcerka]

Boys have a penis and girls have a vagina

[journeymom]

Roubidoux/Jayne, that's a great distinction you make there. I'm thinking the term 'birth canal' has to be used in context of a woman who has a baby to push out. I can't see using it with a three year old either.

[journeymom]

Originally Posted by Imakcerka 

Boys have a penis and girls have a vagina

Even thats not always true!

[Imakcerka]

Originally Posted by journeymom 

1.  

Even thats not always true!

Gee I know, a friend of mine just informed me he's married to a unich... Apparently due to Vulva cancer at 2.  Very interesting.  They literally cut it all off and took out her other female parts... just in case.  Is this normal in Ireland?  I've heard cancer is but it makes you wonder if it's a "small pox blanket" sort of deal.
 

[2xy]

Originally Posted by mkksmom 



So I guess you never saw the movie Kindergarten Cop? LOL!

Yeah, I've seen it. I never took it to mean that the vagina meant anything more than the vagina. Girls do have vaginas.

Originally Posted by journeymom 

No, that's not quite correct.  The vagina is just one of three parts that make up the whole which is commonly referred to as the birth canal.  The birth canal refers to the cervix, vagina and vulva.  

The alimentary canal starts with your lips and ends with your anus. That doesn't mean your throat is the same thing as your colon. The birth canal begins at the cervix and ends at the vulva, and the tunnel in between is the vagina.
 

[2xy]

Originally Posted by Imakcerka 

Gee I know, a friend of mine just informed me he's married to a unich... Apparently due to Vulva cancer at 2.  Very interesting.  They literally cut it all off and took out her other female parts... just in case.  Is this normal in Ireland?  I've heard cancer is but it makes you wonder if it's a "small pox blanket" sort of deal.
 

Yes, vulva cancer is commonly treated by excision of the vulva, and not just in Ireland. It's a horrendous surgery and frail or elderly women often cannot survive it.

Are we calling women without ovaries "eunuchs" now? I've never heard the term used to refer to a woman.

[Imakcerka]

No, she can urinate and can have a bowel movement.  Everything else is gone.  As in closed off.  This was done almost 40 years ago.  They also removed all her reproductive organs.  I just thought it was rather odd.  And the stories about the rest of her siblings and their cancers at a young age.  I think only one of them has had kids.  Rather odd if you ask me.  I've heard of families where cancer is big but not all the siblings and very spread out.  Then again I haven't heard everything so... you know how that goes.
 

Originally Posted by 2xy 

Yes, vulva cancer is commonly treated by excision of the vulva, and not just in Ireland. It's a horrendous surgery and frail or elderly women often cannot survive it.

Are we calling women without ovaries "eunuchs" now? I've never heard the term used to refer to a woman.

[2xy]

Originally Posted by Imakcerka 

No, she can urinate and can have a bowel movement.  Everything else is gone.  As in closed off. 

I'm really not sure what you're responding to with this.

[babygirlie]

I think it's more etiquette. it just looks ugly to have your knees hanging out eating with your hands and chewing  your cud with your mouth wide open. No reason we can't look and act nice. Doesn't have anything to do with sexuality imo

[podsnap]

I think girls are fussed at to look and act nice far more often than boys are fussed at to look and act nice.

[meemee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by babygirlie 

I think it's more etiquette. it just looks ugly to have your knees hanging out eating with your hands and chewing  your cud with your mouth wide open. No reason we can't look and act nice. Doesn't have anything to do with sexuality imo

we are talking culturally right?

i am not sure exactly what you are saying

but

eating with your hands

chewing your cud with your mouth wide open

is culturally acceptable in many places. 

and i have no objection to either of those. 

the very concept of ugliness and beauty are so culturally diverse. 
 

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by meemee 

Quote:

we are talking culturally right?

i am not sure exactly what you are saying

but

eating with your hands

chewing your cud with your mouth wide open

is culturally acceptable in many places. 

and i have no objection to either of those. 

the very concept of ugliness and beauty are so culturally diverse. 
 

Agreed...except that I find the phrasing "chewing your cud" objectionable, all by itself.

[meemee]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride 

Agreed...except that I find the phrasing "chewing your cud" objectionable, all by itself.

yup i agree. 

[lonegirl]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride 

Agreed...except that I find the phrasing "chewing your cud" objectionable, all by itself.

LOL growing up on a farm....I have seen many cows "chewing the cud"....it is a great visualization for some people when they eat.  Open mouthed, food smacking....icky.  Yes we don't have multiple stomachs (yes I know that it is one stomach with multiple chambers-reticulum, the omasum, the rumen and the abomasum) and regurgitate....but still same visual effect.

 

[meemee]

i agree it is a v. 'apt' term but its still kinda derogatory. 
 

Originally Posted by lonegirl 

LOL growing up on a farm....I have seen many cows "chewing the cud"....it is a great visualization for some people when they eat.  Open mouthed, food smacking....icky.  Yes we don't have multiple stomachs (yes I know that it is one stomach with multiple chambers-reticulum, the omasum, the rumen and the abomasum) and regurgitate....but still same visual effect.

 

[FarmerBeth]

Wow!  Has this thread really diverged!  Nine pages!

My daughter wears what she likes and she sits how she likes.  But she knows that in formal situations, slouching and sitting in a sloppy manner are not acceptable.

About the semantics debate here:  Words vary according to culture, situation and the relationship of the people talking.  That is perfectly normal.  My 7 year old son told me last weak that "At school I have a wiener and at home I have a penis".  I might not prefer "wiener", but he's learning a lesson in how peer to peer language differs from language used with adults.  Also, my daughter has quite correctly told me that she told on a boy who pulled down a girls pants to look at her privates (quite appropriate in that it shows she understood how what the boy did was wrong) and has also told me that the skin of her vulva was sore.  Different words for different situations.

Working in health care, I have heard lots of crazy slang terms for female genitalia, including "monkey" and "mustn't-touch-it".  A lot of the time, I had to use whatever terms would be understood, sometimes by trial and error.  And it's not just women that are lacking terminology.  I've seen men completely baffled when asked about the rash "on their scrotum".  Only "balls" would work.  I kind of just had to go with the flow.  Really, generic "vagina" and "penis" are still a step up.  Now, when I taught prenatal classes, that was different, because people were there to be educated.  The situation fits the term.

I've also seen attempts at anatomical and political correctness fail terribly.  One mother I knew taught her boys that "Boys have a penis and girls have a urethra", because she said that little kids are asking about the differences between the parts the different genders pee out of.  True point, but of course, boys have a urethra, too.  Sometimes nitpicking leads to more error rather than less.

[BroodyWoodsgal]

Oh my word, ladies...I get busy for a few days and come back to all of this! I feel i've been a lousy thread host!! :)

I think that the fact that my eldest child is only three makes this a different question than it is for some of you with older kids. I see a three year old playing, running and jumping with no care as to who is seeing her underwear...and it's cute. Maybe it will look less cute when she's a gangly 12 year old and I will feel compelled to explain to her that "society" says well-mannered children sit "politely" with their knees closed, etc. Or, maybe not....but I do think maybe I should reserve judgement until I've BTDT!

Also, I think that maybe some of you don't encounter this concept in the way I have....this phrase "keep your legs closed"  - is used all around me, all the time. I do not hang around hideous, mean people, either. Maybe it's a cultural thing? Anyway, it really bothers me and I don't care for it, because it's directed at small children and the tone is very yucky (like a PP upthread said, it sounds very "don't be a tramp") and I don't feel it is appropriate and it IS shaming.

For the record:

My daughter is aware of the names of different parts of her private area. If she has a problem, like an itchy scratchy problem, or if she hurts herself....the proper names for where she is hurt are used because I believe that in a medical context it is important to be able to properly speak of your own parts.

But her preference seems to be to call the whole "kit and kaboodle"  her Vagina....specifically, she calls it "My 'Gina" (That's pronounced "gyna")....and her tone, when she's talking about this special place of hers, is so loving and proud, that I really don't have the heart to turn all mean-mama and forbid that she calls her special parts what she wants. It's hers. I give her the proper terms and she says what she wants. Past the point where I make her aware of the proper terms...I really don't consider it my business.

Depending upon the occasion, who I'm talking to and what I'm trying to convey....I call my "lady parts" by any number of names:

- The Gates of Life (I actually first heard that here at MDC)

- Lady Parts

- Vagina/Vulva/Labia (proper terms)

- Nether Regions

- Her/She

I can't really think of any more at the moment...but there are many more! My Lady Place is wild, fun, serious, life giving and on and on....she can't just have one name or set of names...it's boring.

I am very passionately "pro-gina" ....and I pout at any ninny who would take herself so seriously, that she would frown at a mama such as myself, who is raising her daughter to be strong and confident about her whole body and who lets her call her vagina/vulva/labia whatever she chooses.

PhiloMom: I don't know what happened. I really like you and I used to think you liked me...I don't know why, I just got the sense that somehow we were "friendly" around here. But the last couple/few times you've replied to me directly, you've been rude and made it abundantly clear that you think I'm a raging idiot. Okay, whatever, but if you were planning to continue speaking to me like that, let me save you some time: Just don't. Don't do it anymore. I know you have a right to say whatever you'd like...and that's fine, but I really don't care for the tone you've been taking with me lately and I'd appreciate it if you would just keep it to yourself. Or to PM people privately to discuss how dumb I am, or whatever else you want to do. So long as I don't have to read the "you're an idiot" snark from you anymore, I don't care how big an idiot you think I am or who you tell all about it. I seriously resent your assertion that my using the term "vagina" here on this thread, to refer to the region in it's entirety, means that I am uneducated and cannot possibly be so "passionate" as I claim to be about girls and women feeling positively about their reproductive organs/rights.

But yeah, anyway....my daughter wears what she wants, play how she wants, refers to her "privates" however she chooses and doesn't get any kind of weird judgement from me.....and somehow, she is a wild, funny, sweet, extremely well mannered child who interacts beautifully with other people and is a constant pleasure to be around. So, I guess I'm not such an idiot after all.

[*bejeweled*]

[quote name="AverysMomma" url=
PhiloMom: I don't know what happened. I really like you and I used to think you liked me...I don't know why, I just got the sense that somehow we were "friendly" around here. But the last couple/few times you've replied to me directly, you've been rude and made it abundantly clear that you think I'm a raging idiot. Okay, whatever, but if you were planning to continue speaking to me like that, let me save you some time: Just don't. Don't do it anymore. I know you have a right to say whatever you'd like...and that's fine, but I really don't care for the tone you've been taking with me lately and I'd appreciate it if you would just keep it to yourself. Or to PM people privately to discuss how dumb I am, or whatever else you want to do. So long as I don't have to read the "you're an idiot" snark from you anymore, I don't care how big an idiot you think I am or who you tell all about it. I seriously resent your assertion that my using the term "vagina" here on this thread, to refer to the region in it's entirety, means that I am uneducated and cannot possibly be so "passionate" as I claim to be about girls and women feeling positively about their reproductive organs/rights.

[babygirlie]

Hmm I know that in Europ if your feet are on the chair at a Mcdonalds you would be kicked OUT and never let in. I wonder what country loves seeing peoples chewed food or underpants just sagging out? In Africa they wear very long skirts so even if your legs were open you wouldn't see anything and they are very polite when eating even if they have to share bowls etc.

chewing your cud is derogatory? Because it refers to cows? I don't think it's a cow thing but how a cow eats. It's not attractive.. very drooling and around around around. lol

I saw a guy blow a huge snot out of his nose as he was selling flowers by the roadside. Yeah I wouldn't buy water in the desert from that guy. I think you want people to percieve you as educated and I'm sorry but that does include ettiquette.

[Lazurii]

Originally Posted by babygirlie 

Hmm I know that in Europ if your feet are on the chair at a Mcdonalds you would be kicked OUT and never let in. I wonder what country loves seeing peoples chewed food or underpants just sagging out? In Africa they wear very long skirts so even if your legs were open you wouldn't see anything and they are very polite when eating even if they have to share bowls etc.

chewing your cud is derogatory? Because it refers to cows? I don't think it's a cow thing but how a cow eats. It's not attractive.. very drooling and around around around. lol

I saw a guy blow a huge snot out of his nose as he was selling flowers by the roadside. Yeah I wouldn't buy water in the desert from that guy. I think you want people to percieve you as educated and I'm sorry but that does include ettiquette.

Yup, but I feel that it's bad etiquette to insist that a little girl keep her legs closed in a skirt or pants (because it happens in both instances) but not a little boy.  And I have experience with boys in skirts, my son likes to wear them.  No one tells him to keep his legs closed.  It's bad etiquette because it sexualizes something that should not be sexualized.