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"Keep your legs closed" - Page 2

post #21 of 186

Quote:

Originally Posted by AverysMomma View Post

Hildare: I would respectfully disagree with you. People all around me tell their little girls "cross your legs, cross em" - all the time. It's not because they don't want people to see their little girls underwear...it's because under the underwear, there is a vagina lurking. I see people telling their little girls to close their legs even when they are wearing pants....in our society, it is considered rude and inappropriate for a woman to sit with her legs splayed. Sitting up straight, with your knees closed and her hands placed in her lap...this is how a young lady or woman is "supposed" to sit. I've never once in my life heard anyone tell a little boy to close his legs. Our society sees something inherently "yucky" or "indecent" in female sex/sex organ/etc and it's been that way for a long time.


AverysMomma, it may be the area you are in. I have never heard anyone in my area aside from some old great grandma types say that sort of thing. And I'm in NC so not exactly a place where you wouldn't expect such sentiments, but I am in a more liberal hotspot. I've been hanging around little girls for the past 10+ yrs and this sort of talk just doesn't come up around here.

 

However, many folks do talk about not seeing underwear or remind kids (usually girls) that they can see their underwear. I do encourage my girls to wear shorts under their dresses if they're planning to do a lot of playing outside. If we're just going to the library or grocery store and the dress is not super short I'm fine with just undies, but if they're going to be doing the monkey bars or something I do encourage shorts.

 

Likewise if I had a little boy I would encourage him not to be showing his underwear, too. I would not be down with the baggy pants hanging down past his crotch look. 

 

I don't really wanna see a grown-up's underwear, either, so I don't think it's vagina-shaming so much as teaching appropriate modesty and not just for girls. After some age I wouldn't let my hypothetical boy run around naked in public, either. I'm okay with public diaper changes and a naked toddler at the beach or park doesn't bother me, but at some point I would like some clothes on the kids and also at some point I would want the clothes to be more than just underwear. At age 3, eh, it wouldn't bother me. If I saw a 3 yr old running through the park in nothing but undies I'd probably think it was cute, but if it was a 10 yr old, not so much.

 

Kids develop their own sense of modesty, too, as they mature — some more than others. My dd2 (age 7) has been shutting the door to the bathroom at home and locking it for about 2 yrs now, but my 10 yr old still will leave it wide open! Neither one of them would want someone else to see their underwear now. It would be soooooooo embarrassing! 

 

So, I guess, my advice is not to think about it as sexually shaming, but instead as instilling appropriate levels of modesty and in my house that doesn't include "keep your legs closed" at all, but instead "I can see your undies". 

 

hth

post #22 of 186

I've only scanned the replies, but seriously...I think we're really overthinking things.  I like my vagina.  I like my underwear too.  That doesn't mean I think other people want to see either and it also doesn't mean I'm interested in seeing a bunch of  other vaginas or underwear.  I see no parallel between being a strong woman, or girl, loving your body, and needing to be free to sit around with your legs spread wide open.

 

It isn't sexist to suggest a person not show their undies in public or around visitors/guests.   At our house, that guideline will go for the boys and any girls we may have.  It is just a matter of being sensitive to others' feelings of perhaps wanting to go about life not feeling like they have to be uncomfortable looking at my vagina or my underwear. 

post #23 of 186

Yeah, when DD was little she just thought that dresses always had shorts/pants on under them, like shirts do, because I dressed her that way because I did not feel she should have to keep her skirt down.  Now that she is older she chooses between wearing shorts/pants/tights/nothing.  She does know, though, that noone wants to see your underwear, so if she chooses nothing she has to be thoughtful of that.  She usually wears something, but sometimes doesn't.

 

The rule goes for DS too - people don't want to see his underwear (or nipples! :)).  I think it is part of being appropriate in society.  I don't think it is oppressive.

 

Stark

post #24 of 186
If dd is wearing a dress I have always told her to sit upright so that she wouldnt have it up around her neck. I have never told her to close her legs but I have said hey I can see your unders. If she is wearing a dress to school I do have her wear shots under it since I want her to be able to play without worry of showing off her backside even though it is covered in underwear.
post #25 of 186

my opinion:

 

1) a 3 year old cannot be expected to sit still, let alone sit with their legs closed or even sit up straight for any length of time. at least not my kids!

 

2) my DD, who is 5, is going to be wearing shorts under her skirts for a long time yet. she cannot sit still yet.

 

3) it is so not about her vagina! she wears underwear every day, so the vagina is always covered up. it's about the underwear and "flashing" in general. yes, it is innocent -- she is a young child. but it is my job to protect her. unfortunately, there are plenty of perverts out there in the world, and i sure don't enjoy the thought of any of them sneaking a peek at my dear child's skivvies. sorry... just no.

 

4) she has no problem with wearing the shorts. i simply frame it as nobody wants to see underpants. that's why they are called "under" wear. you wear them under your clothes!

post #26 of 186

We aren't there yet, since Doozer is just 18 months.  But I hated the shaming that happened when I was a kid, and I see it all the time since I attend a very conservative church every Sunday.  Also, people are telling me already that I need to be more careful with Doozer than I was with BuggaBoo because she's a girl.  Not that I was lax with BuggaBoo, but we're not all uptight about nakedness around here.  When he hit about 3 I told BuggaBoo that he need to wear underwear around friends and in the front yard because it was polite, but he can be naked in the house or our backyard, no biggie.

 

I never understood why it wasn't okay to see underwear but swimsuits and "spankies" under cheerleading uniforms was okay.  They're the same thing!  They show just as much!  In my opinion it is a form of vagina shaming, because I've seen people say "Close your legs" to girls in pants, and I got that all the time in middle school from middle school boys.  They learned it from somewhere!

 

Another example is from when I worked in a public school.  One of my favorite little kids was a girl that belonged to a "skirtish" religion, she wore skirts every day to school.  She was also extremely active and loved to tumble and play.  She always wore shorts to school under her skirt.  One day another playground duty told her she couldn't play on the monkey bars and she needed to act like a lady.  She replied that she had shorts on, and the duty said, "Doesn't matter, you're in a skirt, you need to act like a lady."  After she was done talking to the girl I went over and said, "She wears a skirt every day, it's their religion, and she has shorts on.  What's the big deal?  When is she going to be able to play according to your rules?"  The reply was, "Well, probably never, because she'll always be in a skirt, but that's just how it is."

 

Later I went to the little girl and told her she could play however she wanted and to refer any nay-sayers to me.  She was very grateful.

post #27 of 186

My daughter is only two, but I usually have her wear shorts. For one if you are sitting on a monkey bar, tree limb, the ground, etc. it's and extra layer between that thing and your bum. Underwear are usually made of thin fabric. Nothing is more annoying than a scratch on your rear! My other fear is not so much that no one wants to see her underwear, but that some weirdo does. When we are at home I could care less. When we are out in public though I just don't like that feeling that a preditor could look see something that triggers something in them. I know that deep down that really isn't totally rational, but that doesn't stop my from thinking it.

 

post #28 of 186

The waist band to boys and mens underpants shows in back any time their shirt tails ride up when they sit down. Doesn't offend anyone unless their butt cracks are showing.

 

And men sit with their legs spread apart all the time. Never heard anyone complain about it.

 

What I don't get are girls bathing suits. Why are girls expected to go around in bra/underpants swimwear that will require them to have to remove their pubic hair as soon as it grows in while boys get to swim in regular shorts?

 

 

post #29 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by AverysMomma View Post

Anyway, I am a very "pro-gina" lady and I love my vagina(I'm not, like, obsessed with it or anything, I just think it rocks!). Do you instruct your DD to keep her legs closed/crossed? If so, why? If not, why?

You mean pro vulva? Or pro labia?Cause no one sees a little girl's vagina... and no one sees a woman's vagina except her lover and her midwife. The vagina is unseen... its the inside part.


And yes, after age 6 or so .. I did teach my daughter to close her legs a bit when wearing a skirt. Or wear shorts underneath or leggings.
post #30 of 186

My sister is lesbian and not a girlish girl at all, that means, no skirts ever. Yet she wears her underwear in a way that people can see it. (it´s more the CalvinK type of shorties anyway, but she actually buys them because she loves how they peak out her pants. She is a grownup though.

 

I don´t mind seeing underwear esp. in kids. sometimes they are nice. Don´t wanna see dirty underwear though :)

 

post #31 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by podsnap View Post

 

What I don't get are girls bathing suits. Why are girls expected to go around in bra/underpants swimwear that will require them to have to remove their pubic hair as soon as it grows in while boys get to swim in regular shorts?

 

 



Huh, I've never seen a kids' bathing suit that WOULD require it.  My DD has had pubic hair for awhile, still wears kid sizes (albeit the upper end, she's too thin to fill out a junior size yet since she's majorly growth spurting and the weight isn't keeping up with the height!), and it's never a problem.  Swim shorts and rashguard shirts are pretty popular with girls here too (you can even get girls' cut ones).

 

Heck, I don't shave my pubic hair (a little trim once in a while but not down to the skin) and I've never had a problem with bathing suits.  Maybe I live in a prudey area or something, but I think this statement is catastrophising a bit.

post #32 of 186

I have 3 girls, and with skirts I tried to teach them not to show underwear. I didn't teach to always have their legs closed when wearing pants or shorts, though. Usually they wore shorts under their skirts. My 16 year old occasionally wears skirts, and still wears shorts underneath :) I wear shorts when wearing a short skirt also(which is not often).

 

The only time I have ever said anything about being ladylike to my daughters is if I burp loudly or one of the teenagers burps or curses, I joke, "That was very ladylike!" They know I am kidding bc I am so not into being a lady. I don't know how I ended up with so many daughters with my attitude! LOL

post #33 of 186

Short answer: Little girls should always wear shorts/pants/opaque tights underneath skirts until they're old enough to not be constantly flipping their skirts up. If I had a boy who wanted to wear dresses I would hold him to the same standard fwiw. 

 

Longer answer: My older daughter is three and obsessed with dresses/appearing "feminine." For us the dresses became an issue when she potty trained late 2010 and stopped wearing diapers. I'll admit it, I'm not wholly comfortable with her obsession with dresses and I'd rather she just wore pants. I'm DEFINITELY not comfortable telling her "how to sit" in a dress, but on the occasions where I can't persuade her to wear shorts/pants/tights underneath her dresses I DO gently correct her when she ends up with her skirt around her neck... and my husband believes that this is completely unnecessary. I don't tell her to keep her legs together, but I do tell her to keep her skirt pulled down/feet on the floor if she isn't wearing anything underneath the dress except panties. I guess I view this in the same category as wearing shoes in restaurants, not chewing with your mouth open, wearing clothes in public period? Like, not showing your underwear is something that goes with the territory of wearing a dress... which is why I, personally, have a strong preference for pants. My husband and I have also had some disagreements about "appropriate skirt lengths" as DD1 outgrows items of clothing and they become too short. He sees no issue with dresses being shorter than fingertip length, but I view that as overly short/adult for a young child's dress. I have no problem with teenaged/adult women deliberately wearing short skirts fwiw, but 100% of the time if DD1 puts on a skirt and it seems "too short" to me it's in a size that she's outgrown/about to outgrow.

 

And to put this in context, I'm not at all socially conservative and consider myself to be a feminist.  

post #34 of 186

No, I don't tell any of my children to keep their legs closed. If you can see DD's underwear, its probably because that all she has on. I'm sure this will change as my children get older but right now I'm not at all concerned about my 4-year appearing "ladylike."

post #35 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by podsnap View Post

The waist band to boys and mens underpants shows in back any time their shirt tails ride up when they sit down. Doesn't offend anyone unless their butt cracks are showing.

 

And men sit with their legs spread apart all the time. Never heard anyone complain about it.

 

What I don't get are girls bathing suits. Why are girls expected to go around in bra/underpants swimwear that will require them to have to remove their pubic hair as soon as it grows in while boys get to swim in regular shorts?

 

 


Yeah... men don't ooze sex. And for the most part their chonies are shorts or atleast look like shorts. Girls wear thongs, g strings, various fabrics, see through, lace and I could go on. So seeing a mans not so HOT cotton chonies is a TURN off. I mean since you're bringing man panties into the conversation,.
post #36 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post



Yeah... men don't ooze sex. And for the most part their chonies are shorts or atleast look like shorts. Girls wear thongs, g strings, various fabrics, see through, lace and I could go on. So seeing a mans not so HOT cotton chonies is a TURN off. I mean since you're bringing man panties into the conversation,.


I just...wow.  I find certain men very sexy and I think boxers are hot.  I find it demeaning to both men and women to say that only women "ooze sex". 

 

"Officer, I couldn't help it, she was oozing sex."

"No, sweet husband, I can't bring myself to sleep with you, you just don't ooze sex."

 

I mean, really?

 

post #37 of 186

I have never said that to my girls. Both my girls prefer to wear dresses almost exclusively, I have always just put little shorts or leggings out with their clothes when they get dressed. DD1 also doesn't wear underwear but I don't care as long as something is covering her butt and they are something like short shorts. 

post #38 of 186


SOME "girls" do...though not everyone--I'd rather just do without than deal with buttfloss and itchy lace, sorry.  Guess i don't "ooze sex".  (Kinda gross-ish visual picture I'm getting there, like a giant slug wearing a corset).  Similarly, not all men wear tighty-whiteys (and not everyone finds tighty-whiteys unsexy either).  I appreciate that you are not visually turned on by appearance or men in their panties apparently, but that doesn't generalize to everyone.  :D  Also...what does this have to do with young girls?  I know there are thongs available for small sizes but since I don't shop at abercrombie and fitch or whatever the latest hot shop is (I'm sure it's moved on to something else!) and buy my kids' underwear at Target or Freddies, I have yet to see real buttfloss, lace, or see-through stuff for the kids size m - xl crowd.  Even if my daughter is flashing someone, she's going to be flashing "monday" or polka dot or some obnoxious kid color undies, not Li'l Miss Victoria's Secret.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post



Yeah... men don't ooze sex. And for the most part their chonies are shorts or atleast look like shorts. Girls wear thongs, g strings, various fabrics, see through, lace and I could go on. So seeing a mans not so HOT cotton chonies is a TURN off. I mean since you're bringing man panties into the conversation,.


 

post #39 of 186

I love the (mostly) positive vibe of this thread.

My daughter wears skirts and dresses a lot and is always monkeying around, so it's basically inevitable that anyone around sees her pants at one time or another. I've never scolded her about it, it didn't even occur to me. She's 6 now and developing a bit of a sense of modesty on her own and doesn't want anyone to see her underwear, so it's basically a self-limiting behavior (flashing her pants by accident, that is). No shame, no need to harp on her about it.

When she wears shorter dresses and tunics, usually she wants to wear leggings with them anyway, so again, it's a non-issue.

We also do biking shorts under dresses sometimes. Same reason as some of you above: active kid, often found upside down. Plus it's more comfortable for riding in dresses/skirts, which for whatever reason Maya loves to do.

post #40 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by podsnap View Post
What I don't get are girls bathing suits. Why are girls expected to go around in bra/underpants swimwear that will require them to have to remove their pubic hair as soon as it grows in while boys get to swim in regular shorts?

 

 



board shorts are really popular where we live. Longer suits for competitive swimming are around, but not really popular yet.

 

I see lots and lots of options in girls'/women's swim wear.

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