opinions on time out please - Page 2

[briansmama]

Originally Posted by chaimom 

I think a time out is a far better way to handle a child who is hitting or misbehaving than yelling at them or snapping and spanking.  A timeout will let everyone get back under control.  I'm always surprised at people who are adamantly opposed to any kind of punishment, yet whose children are so miserable to be around, even the parents don't like them.  What a sad life for that child. (Not saying that is the case with the original poster.)

We don't actually time our time-outs here.  The kids just know they can leave time out when they're ready to talk.  My kids are 5, 9 & 9 and I can't even think of the last time we've done a time out.  I'm sure my 5-year-old will get one again sometime, but she's a pleaser, so has not interest in being sassy or misbehaving.  Sometimes she'll talk in a rude way and we just ask her to stop and she'll apologize.  If there is a time out, once everyone's calm, I let my kids come up with  the "better" way to handle whatever it was that got them in trouble.   As for kids not staying in timeout, that never happened with us, but I think if you just kept putting the child back in time out he or she would eventually stay and it would be less of a battle each time (the goal, of course, being no timeouts). 

I do want to point out that not all parents who are against time-out are against any discipline. I agree that permissive parenting can be detrimental to children. Children need boundaries, and in fact, beg for them if not clearly defined.

Calmly holding a young child who is learning to control their body while giving them tools such as angry words, a pillow to hit, and loving arms is a way of setting firm boundaries with a child who is learning that people are not for hitting.

A screaming child who doesn't listen to my boundaries or direction is a clear indication that we are becoming disconnected. What can I do as the adult, the parent, to reinstate that connection? A child who is well connected usually wants to cooperate. Of course, a toddler or preschooler does not always want to cooperate no matter how strong the connection is, but this is a developmentally appropriate stage, and one that can be handled wi firm boundaries, loving arms, and lots of tools that do not equal punishment.

Letting a child know that they are welcome to take a break and hang in their room if they are feeling upset, frustrated, or angry seems like a great tool, not a time out. Time outs, when used as a forced punishment for misbehaving can threaten the connection I have with my child, so I try very hard to not resort to using them.

But, I am not a permissive parent. That would also threaten the bond I have with my child, as well as create an unsafe environment, as I have a 4 yr old who is learning to control his body and at times needs the boundaries dh and I have established.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by briansmama 

 

I do want to point out that not all parents who are against time-out are against any discipline. I agree that permissive parenting can be detrimental to children. Children need boundaries, and in fact, beg for them if not clearly defined.

Calmly holding a young child who is learning to control their body while giving them tools such as angry words, a pillow to hit, and loving arms is a way of setting firm boundaries with a child who is learning that people are not for hitting.

A screaming child who doesn't listen to my boundaries or direction is a clear indication that we are becoming disconnected. What can I do as the adult, the parent, to reinstate that connection? A child who is well connected usually wants to cooperate. Of course, a toddler or preschooler does not always want to cooperate no matter how strong the connection is, but this is a developmentally appropriate stage, and one that can be handled wi firm boundaries, loving arms, and lots of tools that do not equal punishment.

I know this wasn't directed at me specifically, but I think you are very idealistic.  You know, when its possible for me to hold my child and get him to not hit, I do.  But sometimes, its not possible.  Sometimes (he's almost 3) he really needs to be separate from everyone - including me - because he cannot stop hitting and won't sit in my arms.  When he's flailing so much that I can't hold him still without hurting him, or biting me because I'm trying to keep him from hitting me, we just need a break from each other.  Telling him that he needs to be in another room while he calms down is not punishment all the time - sometimes its necessary.  And boundaries are necessary, but they also need to be communicated - and sometimes a time out (or a break, or whatever) is a good way to communicate those boundaries.  Ie, hitting is not allowed.  If you hit me, then it is clear we need a break from each other, so I'm going to go in the other room until you can calm down.  Or you are going to go in another room while you calm down.

Letting a child know that they are welcome to take a break and hang in their room if they are feeling upset, frustrated, or angry seems like a great tool, not a time out. Time outs, when used as a forced punishment for misbehaving can threaten the connection I have with my child, so I try very hard to not resort to using them.

Sometimes kids don't understand when they need a break though.  My son is very social, and always wants to be around people.  But even he needs breaks, and needs to be alone (or just with me - it was just the 2 of us at home for a long time, and now we live with extended family), but he doesn't always know when that is.  So at times, I have to tell him that its time for some quiet time (either with me, or not) and he always fights me on it, but it also always feels better afterwards.

But, I am not a permissive parent. That would also threaten the bond I have with my child, as well as create an unsafe environment, as I have a 4 yr old who is learning to control his body and at times needs the boundaries dh and I have established.

 

[hakeber]

We use time outs.  Usually it is because one of us is at the breaking point and it is about removing the child for everyone's sanity and safety.

When we are all calm we go in and discuss.

It is a good coping mechanism.

I do know lots of moms that don't need them, but typically these are moms of one child, or children spaced out quite far apart, and are stay at home moms.

I think working parents tend to struggle more with GD.  Just an observation, not fact.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by hakeber 

I think working parents tend to struggle more with GD.  Just an observation, not fact.

Why do you say that?  Honest question, I'm curious.

I happen to think for me its the opposite.  I work, so I'm calmer when I'm with ds.  If I was a SAHM, it would get very ugly - I don't have the patience for it.

[briansmama]

Super-single-mama, I can see where you are coming from. If my child wouldn't let me hold him while he's upset than that could be a different matter. I can see where physically removing him or her would be necessary to protect yourself and the child from going too far.

One thing that I would consider though is why is my child biting and hitting me? Is he too young to use words and acting out of frustration? Is he or she exhausted, hungry, or angry? If the child is too young, then I would hold his hands or face him outward. I would let my child know in no uncertain terms that we do not hurt people. It is ok to be angry but it is not ok to hurt people.

If the child is old enough to use words yet is still hitting and biting me, I would strongly consider further investigation. Could there be a reaction to a certain food? I learned that ds1 coud not tolerate gluten. If he at it, he would scream, thrash, and kick. I was able to hold him or offer him a place next to me, but ere was a lot of screaming on his part. It was only after we realized that gluten was giving him digestive problems that we were able to find peace in our household.

But as a child who grew up with punitive parents I can only say that I don't see it as idealistic to seek alternatives to isolation. I see it as an important consideration if I hope to maintain a strong connection with my children. It is worth exploring the reasons behind the aggressive behavior.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by briansmama 

Super-single-mama, I can see where you are coming from. If my child wouldn't let me hold him while he's upset than that could be a different matter. I can see where physically removing him or her would be necessary to protect yourself and the child from going too far.
One thing that I would consider though is why is my child biting and hitting me? Is he too young to use words and acting out of frustration? Is he or she exhausted, hungry, or angry? If the child is too young, then I would hold his hands or face him outward. I would let my child know in no uncertain terms that we do not hurt people. It is ok to be angry but it is not ok to hurt people.
If the child is old enough to use words yet is still hitting and biting me, I would strongly consider further investigation. Could there be a reaction to a certain food? I learned that ds1 coud not tolerate gluten. If he at it, he would scream, thrash, and kick. I was able to hold him or offer him a place next to me, but ere was a lot of screaming on his part. It was only after we realized that gluten was giving him digestive problems that we were able to find peace in our household.

But as a child who grew up with punitive parents I can only say that I don't see it as idealistic to seek alternatives to isolation. I see it as an important consideration if I hope to maintain a strong connection with my children. It is worth exploring the reasons behind the aggressive behavior.

I know the reasons behind his aggressive behavior, and some of them are food intolerances (not allergies per se, but when he has certain things - candy, chocolate, chocolate milk, juice - he doesn't behave well).   Unfortunately, since I'm a single mom there is only so much I can do.  See, he spends one week/month with his dad, plus one weekend every month.  And his dad gives him juice, chocolate milk, and sugar sugar sugar the entire time he has him.  I can't do anything about it, I've tried explaining it to my ex, but he doesn't care - b/c he also gives DS every single thing he wants to avoid the tantrums (which is another reason behind DS's aggressive behavior - when he first comes home and I don't give him whatever he wants he gets mad).  When DS is with me, and has been with me continuously for a solid period of time his behavior is MUCH better - when he comes home from his dad's he has a really hard time adjusting. 

DS will be 3 in January, and he is highly verbal - much more so than most other boys his age - but that doesn't mean he is completely capable of using words in all situations.  That is something that is learned over lots of time, and certainly shouldn't always be expected of a 2yo.

I also kind of think that when people don't have aggressive children, and have pretty mild mannered children, think that there must be something wrong with more aggressive children.  Either its something that can be fixed through meds, different diet, etc, or the parents are seriously screwing up.  The judgment gets REALLY old.

[briansmama]

Super-single-mama, no judgements here! Both my boys went through an aggressive phase and my 4yr old is still going through it a d it is SO hard at times! I give him the best whole foods organic diet, no artificial anything, quality supplements, and solid routine, and plenty of rest, yet he still has an aggressive episode nearly everyday.

I'm learning how to handle the daily aggressiveness with a combination of a consistent routine, quality foods, plenty of rest for all of us, and gentle discipline, which for us means firm boundaries and a strong connection. It is getting so much better. Hs aggressiveness has transitioned from hitting to screaming wi no hitting. Although the screaming is tough, I find that the more I try my absolute hardest to stay calm, not sound angry or mad, and consistently remove him from the situation, staying with him the whole time, his feelings come out. The screaming turns to crying and the crying releases those emotions.

I have learned that I want him to get those feelings out! I need to be there near him so he can tell me what is wrong. Only after we've reconnected can I reach him and teach him that hurting people is not ok. Being angry is ok. I can't change it for him, but I can help him process these huge feelings.

Super-Single mama, it sounds like you are doing your best and trying your hardest. The situation with your ex sounds awful. I don't think it's uncommon. I remember meeting a mom whose DS had major behavioral issues related to artificial colors and flavors. She was a nurse, and eliminated the chemicals completely from his diet, but her ex gave them to DS whenever he could.

It would be terribly difficult for me to practice gentle discipline without support. As I said, it's been a learning process for me and one I'm really striving for. I think your DS is very fortunate that you are able to practice gentle discipline with him without having the support you should have.

[Imakcerka]

I agree that working parents struggle with GD.  When DH and I were in the Military we were stressed 24/7.  Always something that we needed to do.  DH was a military brat so even he understood that Military kids are expected to behave even when it was hard for them to do so.  Working parents have less time to create a bond with their kids and less time to establish a good workable and fair routine.

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

Why do you say that?  Honest question, I'm curious.

I happen to think for me its the opposite.  I work, so I'm calmer when I'm with ds.  If I was a SAHM, it would get very ugly - I don't have the patience for it.

[briansmama]

Imakcerka, tha ks for the honest post. I think it's something that is often hard to look at, but you really just described what I see in friends and family who are so busy and stressed there isn't enough time to establish a solid routine and consistent alternatives to punishment. I know that even when I try to get too much done or I'm feeling stressed for any reason it's that much harder to stay calm and take the time and effort to practice gentle discipline with my dc.

Glad to know I'm not then only one!

[hakeber]

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

Why do you say that?  Honest question, I'm curious.

I happen to think for me its the opposite.  I work, so I'm calmer when I'm with ds.  If I was a SAHM, it would get very ugly - I don't have the patience for it.

It's just what I notice with my fellow working moms versus my friends who are SAHM (I only have anecdoteal evidence, nothing proven).  The SAHM have more time to "manage" the kids, eating, sleeping, bathroom output, skin issues, possible allergies, creative outlets and physical outlets, etc.  I think it makes it easier for them to prevent the sort of conflicts that results in Time Outs, yelling, and (figurative) hair pulling.  Also having just one child at a time to deal with allows that parent to focus entirely on their needs.  Having three or more under the age of six makes that task very hard.

When DH and I are home on vacation we almost never have conflicts with the kids because we all get up, have a proper breakfast, get lots of outside playing time, and cuddles and creative play and bonding.

I know for myself I would be an angry ugly person to everyone around me most of the time if I was not working most of the year, but I do have much less time to manage my kids' needs when I am.

Its is sort of a catch 22... but I am glad to be in education where I can make up for it a little bit, as I have aproximately 3.5 months of vacation sprinkled throughout the year to make up for all the nights I have said: "Right, go to your room until you can be civil!"  It's not perfect, and I hope with time I get better at this parenting gig, but it's not getting thrown out of my tool box just yet.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by Imakcerka 

I agree that working parents struggle with GD.  When DH and I were in the Military we were stressed 24/7.  Always something that we needed to do.  DH was a military brat so even he understood that Military kids are expected to behave even when it was hard for them to do so.  Working parents have less time to create a bond with their kids and less time to establish a good workable and fair routine.

Hmm....I'm less stressed when I am working - I really can't stand being at home with my ds for more than a few days (or a week or whatever I take for vacation).  He drives me NUTS. 

We do have an awesome evening routine though - its something I've spent a lot of time thinking about and implementing.  And we have a wonderful bond.  I'm beginning to hate being a working mom on MDC though, all I ever read is tons of judgments about working mom's, and how we can't possibly be good parents b/c we work and aren't taking care of our kids.  I think I'm going to stop coming to any forums other than the single parenting ones.  All the rest are pretty much useless for me.  (you know, b/c I work, and apparently that makes me a bad mom)

[hakeber]

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

Hmm....I'm less stressed when I am working - I really can't stand being at home with my ds for more than a few days (or a week or whatever I take for vacation).  He drives me NUTS. 

We do have an awesome evening routine though - its something I've spent a lot of time thinking about and implementing.  And we have a wonderful bond.  I'm beginning to hate being a working mom on MDC though, all I ever read is tons of judgments about working mom's, and how we can't possibly be good parents b/c we work and aren't taking care of our kids.  I think I'm going to stop coming to any forums other than the single parenting ones.  All the rest are pretty much useless for me.  (you know, b/c I work, and apparently that makes me a bad mom)

I work full time...and I don't think it makes me a bad mom, just a different mom.  What I may lack in preventitive measures I make up for in cuddles and kisses and special projects.  I too am less stressed when I work.  Being a SAHM is not good for me as a person and this, too, I think makes me a better mom than if I chose to SAH, because I am modelling for my children how to take care of myself and be respectful of my own needs. 

There are lots of ways to parent.  I don 't think being the zen-goddess of consensual, non-punitive, natural consequence GD is the only way to be a good mom.  It's just one of many. I think over all I have a good GD groove with my kids, but I am not afraid to admit my short comings.  There are somethings I am not so good at.  I don't think that makes anyone a bad mom.

[meetoo]

I use consequences like time out/room time as needed some times it 's timed, sometimes it a cool down period and when they are cool they get to come down. :) .  Many times it's logical. If your child is hitting you and pulling your hair it's logical to put her somewhere where she can't hurt anyone until she's done. It's not logical for you need to put yourself in timeout. Of course your going to be annoyed with someone treating you so badly!  Unlike what i heard from PD books/people consequences (not talking about spanking or other corp punishment)  have helped my relationship with my kids not hurt it! Kids need firm boundaries or they are constantly testing the limits which leads to a lot of child/parental frustration.

[Zimbah]

I've just started using time outs with my just-turned-3 year old.  I don't think I'm using them properly and it's not exactly helping!  On the few occasions I've used it, it's when things have escalated and DD1 is being extremely defiant/difficult.  The first time I did it, I sat with her on the bottom step.  I spent a long time making sure she sat with me while she tried to run off/cried/laughed.  Eventually she calmed down, sat quietly, and after a couple of minutes I explained to her about her behaviour etc.  That seemed to work on that occasion.  The problem now though is she thinks it's funny and starts messing around, and I do'nt know how to get her to take it seriously without getting really angry, which I am trying to stop myself from doing.  Aargh.