Sleeping arrangements...is this true?

[MaxsFox]

Now that we have our land (closing at the end of next month) we're starting to get serious about looking at our housing options.  We had been considering a yurt, but they're pretty pricey.  Our land is in Amish country, and an Amish man down the road from us makes sheds and cabins for very reasonable prices, but only makes them up to 20x20 size.  So our thought is to get a 20x20 for our main living space, and buy an extra 8x8 cabin, which will be attached on the back or side for a bathroom and some storage space.

So, I drew out a square in the right proportions, and have been moving around cutouts in the shapes of everything that we need to fit into the house - beds, wood stove (with plenty of clearance), counters, kitchen table, sofa, etc.  I found a way to fit three bedrooms into the place, but two of them would only be 6x8.  That's big enough for a twin bed and a closet, so not too bad.  But then I had a flash of brilliance - why not just use bed shelves.  Line up all three beds end to end along the back wall, put a thin wall between each of them, and a curtain across the front.  We only use beds for sleeping anyway, so why have bedrooms taking up so much living space?  And then I told a friend about my plan, and she burst my bubble.  According to my friend, if kids of different genders (we have a boy, the second one could be anything) don't have actual bedrooms of their own, CPS can come take your kids away.  I couldn't believe it!  That can't be true, right?  As long as they have their own beds (with a wall between them, even) and a privacy curtain, isn't that good enough?

[Perdita_in_Ontario]

I can't say for sure, but I would bet it's not true, especially when they're little. When they hit their teens, I suppose it could be a problem (although I think you'll be getting flack from the kids WAY before CPS by that time!).

I sure hope it's not true because we will shortly be moving DS into the bottom bunk in DD's room!

[MaxsFox]

I can imagine things will have to be changed up a bit when we have teenagers, but yeah, I just can't imagine a rule like that when the kids are little.  Heck, Badger still slept in our bed until earlier this year.  It's not like I can call CPS and ask, though - talk about painting a target on my back, you know?

[insidevoice]

Originally Posted by MaxsFox 

I can imagine things will have to be changed up a bit when we have teenagers, but yeah, I just can't imagine a rule like that when the kids are little.  Heck, Badger still slept in our bed until earlier this year.  It's not like I can call CPS and ask, though - talk about painting a target on my back, you know?

Sure you can, tell them you are contemplating building on some land, but want to know what is seen as acceptable. 

[Lovesong]

Originally Posted by MaxsFox 

Now that we have our land (closing at the end of next month) we're starting to get serious about looking at our housing options.  We had been considering a yurt, but they're pretty pricey.  Our land is in Amish country, and an Amish man down the road from us makes sheds and cabins for very reasonable prices, but only makes them up to 20x20 size.  So our thought is to get a 20x20 for our main living space, and buy an extra 8x8 cabin, which will be attached on the back or side for a bathroom and some storage space.

So, I drew out a square in the right proportions, and have been moving around cutouts in the shapes of everything that we need to fit into the house - beds, wood stove (with plenty of clearance), counters, kitchen table, sofa, etc.  I found a way to fit three bedrooms into the place, but two of them would only be 6x8.  That's big enough for a twin bed and a closet, so not too bad.  But then I had a flash of brilliance - why not just use bed shelves.  Line up all three beds end to end along the back wall, put a thin wall between each of them, and a curtain across the front.  We only use beds for sleeping anyway, so why have bedrooms taking up so much living space?  And then I told a friend about my plan, and she burst my bubble.  According to my friend, if kids of different genders (we have a boy, the second one could be anything) don't have actual bedrooms of their own, CPS can come take your kids away.  I couldn't believe it!  That can't be true, right?  As long as they have their own beds (with a wall between them, even) and a privacy curtain, isn't that good enough?

From where does your friend have this information?

I realise the U.S. is a very strange country when it comes to laws and regulations, but I can't really imagine this being true. Not even in the U.S. I mean, there are plenty of large families living in very crowded spaces with both two and four siblings to a room while the parents have their bed in the living room.If this kind of living arrangement was a cause for the CPS to come and take your children away...well, for instance, a lot of poor city dwelling families would not have any children any longer!

So, don't worry. Probably the reason for CPS getting involved in the case your friend has heard about was not really the siblings sharing bedrooms.

On the other side...if you live in an area where what's acceptable behaviour is governed by Christian morality it might be so that neighbours will report you on that ground. For being immoral. I guess that could happen...

[sosurreal09]

It is true, at least in my state. It happened to a friend of mine. However I would think with the walls it would be ok....?

[4midablemama]

True in my state, as well. Not a law that I imagine gets enforced all that much, but it's a law, nonetheless. 

[Adaline'sMama]

http://forum.freeadvice.com/child-custody-visitation-37/children-sharing-bedroom-390645.html
http://www.safekids.co.uk/should-children-opposite-sex-share-bedroom.html
http://chicago.everyblock.com/announcements/sep18-city-state-rules-against-opposite-sex-siblings-sharing-4269747/
http://www.freeadvice.com/law-questions/is-there-a-law-in-michiga-37484.htm



We are building a house, and for the first several years will have only one room and a loft. DH and I will sleep in the loft, and the kids will sleep downstairs in the big room. I have tried and tried to find even one state that actually has this law one the books and have found nothing. For foster children or for adoption this is a big deal. I cant find any cases where kids were taken JUST because of sharing a bedroom. Housing codes for apartments and rental houses often have these rules, but they are not laws. I would love if someone could actually link a law about children not being able to share a room.

[sosurreal09]

I don't have a law to link but I really truly know someone this happened to. The son was 3 and the daughter was 7. They were sharing a room with separate beds. The mother did have section 8 and was told she needed to find a new apartment so she did. They gave her x amount of time to fix it and threatened to take the kids if that was not met. So IDK I guess I could rephrase it then, that they threatened it. Looking back on it I don't think they actually took them for that....(she did have other issues)

Anyway she complied quickly.

Would this even be an issue in Amish country?

[MaxsFox]

Possibly not.  But we'll already be on Uncle Sam's shit list for living off-grid, without electricity, homeschooling, refusing vax, etc.  I want to do as much by the book as I can, just to avoid causing any more issues than we'll be causing just by living life the way we want it.

[sosurreal09]

I feel you. I don't have any CPS involvement and never have but I get nervous that we do things differently...

[ezcc]

I'm quite certain this is not true- my dd (6) and ds(8) shared a room until very recently, and I know others who have done the same.  Think about people in small apartments in NYC!  I do know that in most states you can't have this arrangement if you have a foster child, but that is a different situation.  Possibly if cps is already involved it can be some sort of mitigating factor, but I can't imagine this is truly a law.

[Abarat]

I'm a foster parent, so I can give a little advice.  I realize rules may be different by state, but I don't believe there are any actual laws reguarding biological kids here.  With foster kids siblings can share a room, as well as young kids of the same sex....and so long as they each have a bed and a dresser they'll try to give you as many as you can take.  I asked about my own kids sharing a room and they didn't give a flip, just cared about the foster kids.

I believe it's up to what you feel is appropriate.  I could see the state getting involved if it's perpetuating an unhealthy relationship or abuse between the kids, or if the kids don't have their own bed or space for their belongings.

If you're truly worried call your local child welfare office and ask!  You can always say you were talking with a friend who'd wondered about HER kids possibly sharing a room..."my friend was asking me if there was a law that would prevent her children from sharing a room", etc.  They're not going to rush out and take your kids for asking.

[Momsteader]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sosurreal09 

I don't have a law to link but I really truly know someone this happened to. The son was 3 and the daughter was 7. They were sharing a room with separate beds. The mother did have section 8 and was told she needed to find a new apartment so she did. They gave her x amount of time to fix it and threatened to take the kids if that was not met. So IDK I guess I could rephrase it then, that they threatened it. Looking back on it I don't think they actually took them for that....(she did have other issues)

This is a housing/rental type issue not a CPS issue. And probably more the number of people in an x bedroom house instead of a same sex/different sex in the same room issue.  Some cities (especially those with big colleges and high cost of living) have rules for how many people can be in a rental unit. It's usually cited as a 'fire code'/occupany load type issue.

[sosurreal09]

IDK but CPS is the one who told her to move.

[rabbithorns]

By the time they are teens, they may want their own spaces anyway. I know one boy whose family live in a huge yurt with a loft upstairs and their son, when he became a teen, simply chose to move into an Airstream trailer outside so he could have his own "room". Another Alaskan family I know had all three kids, 2 girls and a boy, living in the upstairs loft their whole lives. Lots of kids of different gender have to share rooms and that's the way it is all over the world. There is no law that I'm aware of in any state that would allow CPS to remove children on that basis and I've worked with poor and homeless families for years. In fact, homeless family shelters (and I've seen some really nice ones) have everyone sleeping in the same room anyway.

Before you choose a yurt, should you decide to go that route, I should tell you that I lived in one for three years in the Sonoran desert in Arizona. They are not made for warm weather. I could not even walk into it during a desert summer day. It was 95 degrees outside and 120 inside. In the winter I had to run propane heat almost constantly and I used about a gallon of propane a day on just the pilot or on low running it very rarely on a higher setting. All your heat goes right through the roof even when insulated. Luckily winter is short and many days are warm (ish).

The roof and sides are not the slightest bit bug and creature-proof. I had mice and spiders constantly in there. It was just a bedroom so there was no food (we had another yurt for a kitchen) but they liked to live in the ceiling insulation (recycled denim jeans that's turned into stuff that looks like blue cotton balls or carded wool and used for natural insulation). Needless to say, they peed and pooed in there. And had babies. They were cute, but they are known in my area to carry hanta virus.....

I would highly suggest living in a yurt for a week in either very hot or very cold weather first to see if you're going to like it. I managed and I loved my yurt, but it was not what I would call comfortable living. The outside dirt blows in through the screen and all the gaps and the nylon window screening will have to be replaced by gluing on aluminum screen within a few months because it rips so easily. I had to keep all my hanging clothes zipped in suit bags to keep them from being covered with fine red dust. My yurt was 16' in diameter. My kids were grown and moved out by the time I lived in a yurt. But they did share a room in a small cabin in Alaska and also in middle-class California. I moved my daughter in with me when my son turned 12 to give him privacy but I was a single mom and could do that (no husband).

Good luck. Some people love yurts and I did like living in mine, but probably because my only alternative at the time was a tent. I like the retro-fitted shed idea. I think you could do a lot with that and you can always add another shed as a separate building or cut a doorway through and attach it to the main house.

[annethcz]

I think this is one of those things that there may be a shred of truth to.  I have no doubt that opposite-gender children sharing a bedroom could be seen as worrying by CPS, especially for older children.  Living off the grid could also be another strike against you, due to perceived safety concerns. There are millions of other things that most people do that could be framed as "child neglect."  I really think that in the majority of CPS cases, it's not just one small concern that causes CPS to remove children from a home, but rather a pattern of behaviors or a major event (such as a serious injury). 

As for it being "illegal" for children to share bedrooms, I doubt that's the case.  But if CPS becomes involved in your family and tells you to move your children to seperate bedrooms or they'll remove your children, you're probably going to move your kids to seperate rooms, kwim?  I'm not sure I'd worry about what is or isnt okay in the eyes of CPS... mostly because there aren't always consistent guidelines, and the guidelines that exist dont appear to be consistently enforced.  There are individual caseworkers and judges who try to do their best for individual families (all of whom are in different sets of circumstances). Just be a good parent, and hope that's enough.  I think that's what most parents do.

That said, I do think it is important for kids to have their own space, especially as they get older.  No, it's not absolutely necessary, but in my experience it helps with family harmony.  I think you're smart to be thinking ahead to the future.  Kids grow up quickly. They are babies/toddlers for such a short time.

FWIW, we've used curtains to screen off rooms.  We bought a home with an unfinished basement.  When we first moved in, our 2 boys shared a bedroom and our 2 girls shared a bedroom.  They fought like cats and dogs.  In an attempt to make our home life more peaceful, we decided to move the boys to the basement and give each child their own space.  So we hung old sheets from the ceiling to make "bedrooms" for each of the boys.  It wasn't ideal, but it worked.  They were happy to have their own space, and everyone had room to spread out and a place to retreat to.  The sheets didn't make idea walls, the kids played with them and crawled under them far too often (much to the dismay of the boys, it was usually my girls who would crawl under in order to annoy their brothers).  We're slowly finishing the basement, and all of my kids have rooms with walls and doors now.  Although my kids spend most of their time in the common rooms of the house, I do like that they have walls/doors now.  I like that I don't have to listen to their music, and they like being able to close the door so they can concentrate on reading a book or practice their musical instruments without an audience.