Help: My DS (4 1/2) says some scary things and I am trying so hard to ride it out. Do I ignore...

[greektome2]

My DS who is 4+ continues to say the worst things and show aggressive behavior. Last Winter I was so frustrated with the things he said I went the 'soap in the mouth' route. It  never even bothered him plus I felt so guilty (as I should have) that due to other behavior issues and lot's of yelling on my part I seek-ed counseling. Hence I found my way to the gentle discipline approach. Which has been a life saver I might add.

Anyway, here are some things he says, " Mommy I had a dream that Kyle pooped in my mouth then he died". He always, as boys will do shoots everything and uses the 'kill' word and "your dead", or I hope you go to heaven (when he gets mad at me). Today at his 4K preschool he was spitting on kids, knocked down a tower other kids built and then picked up a lizard by it's tail even after multiple warnings from the teacher that it would hurt the animal. When I picked him up and heard all this, the fear set in...am I raising a bully? Why does he talk so mean or act so mean? Is it normal? What do I ignore or what do I discipline?  I told him no MacDonald's (we only go once a week- Thursdays- as a treat) for spitting he then took his baseball cap and smacked me good in the face. I almost started to cry right there in the parking lot. Instead I put him in his seat and cranked the radio.

My fears: He won't have friends. Other parents won't want us around. That he is a born bully. He would rather have negative attention then any other attention.

Thoughts or suggestions? Thanks.

[jlsmama]

Have you tried asking him if he is angry about anything? Is anger an ok emotion in your home? The behaviors you describe sound like things that kids do when they are angry. How do you talk to him about his feelings?

[Dandelionkid]

Are you equating gently discipline with no consequences? I realize Mcdonalds was a consequence but what about after he hit you?  

[greektome2]

That is a great question! Yes, I have been confusing the two. When he hit me, I was so baffled I just talked to him about it later and explained it hurt me and my feelings. I am trying to help him understand how his actions affect me and others. I really don't know what to do when he hits me in public. At home he can go to his room.  In public, honestly I get embarrassed....In the old days before GD I would pick him up (angry myself) and put him in the car with a good talking to. Now I try to remain calm and think it through.

[greektome2]

Angry is an okay, acceptable emotion in our house. When he is angry I do try to let him know I understand but knocking things down and hitting are not cool.  I feel more like it is attention getting along with just plain not getting what he wants. He hits me when he gets a consequence but the strange things he says, I am working on not letting him get a rise out of me when he talks that way. As for talking about his emotions, he doesn't share a lot when I ask him our right...he brings things up on his own in his own time.

[hopefulfaith]

I won't address the hitting - I think that's a different ballgame than using words - but I just wanted to share that my ds (now 6) went through an almost-yearlong period of putting together different scenarios that, combined, were really awful phrases:  "I wish a giant dinosaur would come and poop on our house and you would be in it and your EYES would be filled with poop!"  ... and so on, just to tell us how mad he was at us.  Put any ridiculous combination together, add poop, and it would sound like I had the world's most incorrigible child on the playground.  :(  It was frequently embarrassing.

He was often really aggressive - usually toward his sister, who is his primary playmate - breaking towers with his trucks, etc., and laughing --- running past her and whacking her with his jacket, which he would be carrying and then running faster so she couldn't catch him -- the like.  I felt like I was always, always, always, always on top of him and next to him correcting/modeling/making him have a do-over, etc.  Always.  By 8pm, I was so tired of my own voice.

It got better.  I just wanted to tell you that.

He's not a "perfect" kid.  4K and Kindergarten really gave him a whole new vocabulary to explore, as he learned a lot of new insults and "rude words" and opposite-of-GD threats to make ("I'm going to spank your bottom if we can't have cake for dessert!") ....  I do a lot of redirecting and correcting and You Need Another, Polite Way to Say That and all, but it's gotten much easier.  Six is a bit easier than the 4 1/2 to 5 1/2 year old age, for us.

Good luck.  :)  It got better for us.  I hope it will for you.

[greektome2]

Thank you faitfulhope. It does help to know these phrases are not so unusual.

Thanks all for your feedback.

[Viola]

I have a daughter who is almost 8.  A few years ago she would get so angry and say things like she wanted to die, she was just going to kill herself.  One time she was so mad she was going to kill me, everyone in the family and then the policemen when they came to arrest her.  She used to draw pictures, and one time we had had an argument, then I went outside.  After awhile she brought me a picture she had drawn of me.  I was saying, "Ohhh, you drew a picture of me, how nice, thank you, are those birds?"  She was all, "NO, it's not nice, see?  You have X's for eyes because you're DEAD.  See, that's blood coming out of you!"  I have to admit I was horrified, and yet on some level I actually thought it was funny.  I planned to keep this picture, but it disappeared quickly, I think my older daughter destroyed it because she was so upset by it. 

It's hard to know what appropriate consequences are for that kind of anger, because I don't think actually punishing her helps.  Although she tends to regard any kind of consequence as punishment anyway;  one she asked why I kept punishing her, and I asked how I was punishing her, and she said that it was because I wouldn't let her hit her sister.  If she did something like hit me with an object, I'd take away whatever object it was, I'd speak pretty firmly to her about it, or take away another consequence.  But most of the time I would actually try and block her blow and stop them, by grabbing her arms or whatever.  Which, of course, would piss her off, but this was when she was about 4 and I'd sometimes give her a time out which was basically me holding her tightly during a tantrum.  She be angry and fighting me and yelling, but I'd tell her I love her, and I understood she was angry, and usually she'd end up crying and after a good crying session, she'd be better.

Often her anger just makes her discard one of her own objects, it's like she wants to cut off her nose to spite her face, I swear. She would also run away and throw herself down on a couch in another room.  She still does those things to some degree, but often when she goes off in a huff, she takes pencil and paper and instead of drawing bad pictures of me, she writes a note that verbalizes her feelings on the topic, and then we talk about it.  So I do think it gets better.  But the hurting of animals is disturbing because he can kill them, even if he doesn't mean to do that.  So hopefully the teacher can keep him away from the class pets.

[babygirlie]

I think this is beyond bullying. if it doesn't stop I would get his hormones/thyroid tested. You can't let it be ok to hit you because when he gets bigger.. it's going to hurt.

[jlsmama]

I wonder if he needs some alternative, acceptable ways to express his anger.

Also, if you can imagine what he might feel angry about, whether it's something that happened a while ago but might be unresolved, or something that currently happens or is happening, and say to him, "I wonder if you might be feeling angry about...?" and help him talk about the thing that is actually making him angry, the behaviors will likely lessen. There seems to be something...some frustration, control issue, something...that is bothering him and he needs your help to identify it, express it, and resolve it.

[jlsmama]

Questions I find helpful to ask... when did the behavior begin, what was happening in child's/the family's life, and how might child feel about it/have been impacted by it?