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Can Catholics please vote in this poll?

post #1 of 59
Thread Starter 

Mods, I didn't put this in the religion forum because it's not a religious issue.

 

Catholics, can you please answer a question without googling?  I'd really appreciate it.  DH and I had a disagreement about an issue and I need to see if something he said is a commonly held belief.

 

Question:

Would you, as a Catholic, be offended if your child went to an Anglican youth group which was having an "orange night"? (wear orange clothes).

 

DH (Catholic) says it's deeply offensive and was upset about it for hours.  I (Anglican but went to Catholic schools) hadn't even heard of "Orange Men" or "Orange Order".  DS says the 'orange night' was about fruits of the spirit but felt so uncomfortable about it after his father's outburst that he wore a blue shirt.

 

Thanks for your input.

post #2 of 59

Never heard of Orange Men or Orange Order.

post #3 of 59
Thread Starter 

Sorry, I was in a rush and I forgot to add the poll.  Can you please just give your opinion?  Thanks.

post #4 of 59

Never heard of it and I went to Catholic school for 12 years. 

post #5 of 59
I wouldn't let them, but I wouldn't necessarily be offended. Orangemen are Northerin Irish Protestants who do all the marching in July through Catholic areas of Belfast/Northern Ireland to celebrate (if your them) or rub it in (if you're Catholic) that William of Orange won the Battle of the Boyne in 1690, which was the real start of the troubles in the north.
post #6 of 59

uh... i'm not catholic but ran it by dh who was raised as such and his reaction was this

soapbox.gifguilty.gifcensored.gifhopmad.gif

 

but he's pretty invested in the history irish mommy describes.

please tell me it was a celebrate fall thing.  they meant pumpkins and stuff, right?

post #7 of 59
Honestly, I had no idea about orange men, though DH said he knows all about it (he's Irish... though we're both Catholic).

I guess I would've assumed it was a fall/Halloween thing. Knowing the history behind it/potential meaning now, I might want to investigate further before allowing my child to go.
post #8 of 59

Irish American Protestant mom, Italian American Catholic dad.  I'm familiar with the issue.

 

You're son already went and wore a blue shirt. That was good of him to support his dad.  I would ask at the church about it. 

post #9 of 59

I think it's more an Irish thing than a Catholic thing -- the orange vs. green. 

post #10 of 59

I went to 12 years of Catholic school and have never heard of it.  And my family is Irish Catholic.  Uhh, now I'm off to google!

post #11 of 59
Thread Starter 

No, it's not an autumn/halloween thing, it's spring here.  As I said, the youth group was doing a 'fruits of the spirit' thing, so they were focussing on being kind, loving, peaceful etc in their lives.  They all (except DS) wore orange shirts, they served oranges, orange cake, orange lollies etc.  They were just trying to give their lesson a visual boost for a bit of fun.

 

Since DH was upset about it, I'll encourage him to talk to the youth group leaders about perhaps having a different colour if they do it again.  The leaders are all Year 12 students and they had no idea about the colour (understandable, being an Anglican church in Australia).

post #12 of 59

I'm also a Catholic school graduate (and a very Irish one at that) and this stumps me. I only know of "Orange Men" within the context of the conflict in Northern Ireland. If the meeting had nothing to do with that, then what was it all about?

 

(Nevermind, I see we were posting at the same time.)

 

 

post #13 of 59
I think it's more of an Irish Catholic thing. I still think it's pretty crappy though.
post #14 of 59

Irish, not Catholic. Know the issue. Never, ever would have assumed it was "that" issue. Would assume that it was pumpkin something. Sometimes a pumpkin was just a pumpkin.

 

I would be truly astonished if it was "that" orange issue. 

post #15 of 59

My reaction was similar to your dh's.  This is such obvious church interaction history (Anglican/Catholic, English/Irish) that it wouldn't occur to me that anyone of Catholic or Irish descent wouldn't make that connection (I don't remember when I learned of it, perhaps because my grandmother was raised Presbyterian and converted to Catholicism when she married my Irish Catholic grandfather?).  I know I didn't learn it in a church context, it was just something discussed at home (and not in a "hating on the British" sort of way, just an explanation of what the significance of the color orange in that context was). 

Also, I had a friend in high school whose mother was Scottish, and Catholic, and I heard from her about the very bitter feelings and interactions between Anglicans and Catholics where her mother grew up. 

I honestly wonder whether the kids who planned the event simply knew that Orange had some cultural significance, but didn't know the back story?  Although that seems hard to believe .... It's possible, though, that they didn't realize what additional connotations there were.  It might be good to talk to them so that, if they were unaware, they learn and change the color for the next celebration; and if they were aware, perhaps a better understanding of the emotional issue that it is, even today.  It's not that long ago that there were regular terrorist attacks in Northern Ireland (and sometimes in Britain too). 

post #16 of 59

Fascinating. I'm not Catholic, but married to an ex-Catholic and vaguely aware of the fact that orange = Protestants and green = Catholics. I'd never heard of Orangemen, and neither had DH (I asked). I am Irish by descent, but not as up on Irish politics as I probably should be...

 

I have, however, gone to an orange-themed day. For the life of me I can't remember what it was - school? I think? Or a library thing? I'm pretty darned positive it wasn't anti-Catholic, though; this is New Zealand. I remember being peeved because I hated the colour orange and couldn't find anything decent to wear. :p But yeah, I think it was just a gimmicky novelty. So such things do happen. And in Australia? Yeah, I think your DH was imputing some VERY foreign motives to the youth group.

 

Out of curiosity, is wearing green on St Patrick's Day specifically connoting Catholicism, as distinct from Ireland or Christianity in general? I'd always assumed it was just an "Emerald Isles" thing, but does the green-wearing offend Protestants? Everyone I know who dresses up in green here just does it as a non-religious, non-Irish way to get drunk. :p

post #17 of 59

Heck no.  That is so offensive, I don't even know what to say about it.

post #18 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokering View Post

Out of curiosity, is wearing green on St Patrick's Day specifically connoting Catholicism, as distinct from Ireland or Christianity in general? I'd always assumed it was just an "Emerald Isles" thing, but does the green-wearing offend Protestants? Everyone I know who dresses up in green here just does it as a non-religious, non-Irish way to get drunk. :p



Green on St. Pat's day is a catholic thing. Irish protestants do NOT celebrate St Patricks day. It's a saint's day, and protestants don't celebrate catholic saints.

 

(St. Patrick's day is a much bigger deal in the US than it is in Ireland.)

 

My DH is an Irish Protestant by birth, and an American Atheist by choice. He thinks it is ignorant of American non-catholics to wear green on St. Patrick's day, and to not realize that a day with SAINT in the title has something to do with the Catholic church. He isn't offended by it, he just thinks it's ignorant.

 

My take on the Orange Day planned by a church is that most likely the people who planned it had no understanding of the history.

 

But I do find it ironic that anyone would get super upset over it but feel fine about dressing their child in green, the color of the IRA, for a catholic holiday. It's the same thing.

 

 

post #19 of 59

I'm Irish Catholic and I find this deeply offensive, but it's not a Catholic thing necessarily. It's more of a celebration of hundreds of years of British rule and oppression over Ireland.

post #20 of 59

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokering View Post

Out of curiosity, is wearing green on St Patrick's Day specifically connoting Catholicism, as distinct from Ireland or Christianity in general? 

 

Originally yes, but I would wager that the majority of people who celebrate St. Patrick's Day (at least in the U.S., where it's a much bigger holiday than anywhere else) don't know that, so in the U.S. mainstream it's become much more aligned with what you describe below.  

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokering View Post

Everyone I know who dresses up in green here just does it as a non-religious, non-Irish way to get drunk. :p


 

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