soy milk vs cow's milk and weaning

[GreenbankMom]

I am weaning my 17 month ds. I am 13 weeks pregnant and had planned on nursing much much longer, but alas it was not in the cards. He had weaned fairly successfully, down to one feeding a day in the early morning.  But then he got a really terrible cold and I nursed him here and there for comfort, plus I felt guilty thinking that he probably got sick because I wasn't breast-feeding anymore. Bad idea! The inconsistency has made him insecure I think. He's confused and he is raging over milk, soy milk. I had started giving him a bottle of soy milk with breakfast to supplement (before he got sick). He LOVED it. He calls it "mama". He is no longer interested in breast milk, he will try to nurse but finds my lack of flow annoying. Then he unlatches and starts begging for a bottle of milk, soy milk. There seems to be no end to how much soy milk he will drink. 16-20 ounces a day. We are not cow's milk drinkers.  I am very skeptical about the health benefits of cow's milk in general. I would love to keep his dairy intake to a minimum. But how much soy milk can a 17 month old really drink in a day? I'm finding no good scientific info online about it. Lots of fears and unsubstantiated claims.

He's actually becoming obsessed with soy milk though. He's carrying the bottle around like a comfort object. He stands at the fridge and screams for it. He has screaming tantrums if I put a limit on it or offer water instead. I know this is probably all part of weaning. He is having raging tantrums all the time about everything. Mostly getting my attention ( which of course he has 24/7). But I need to know if I am creating a monster with the soy milk. 

How many ounces of breastmilk substitute do other moms offer? 

Anyone have experience with using soy milk instead of cow's milk?

All you vegan moms out there, what do you do? 

[BubblingBrooks]

I say this gently. The soy milk is very likely the culprit that is causing the rage.
No matter what spin is put on it, soy milk does not have the nutrients that a growing child needs, especially one so young.
It has no fats, and every cell in the body is 50% saturated fat. It has no cholesterol that is needed for proper brain and hormone growth.

If you are concerned about cow milk, you do have a point. Pasteurized/homogenized grain fed milk cannot provide the best nutrition either.
Babies have thrived on raw cow and goat milk for centuries when breast milk was not available, either by mother or wet nurse.
We have a wonderful option today, in that you can make a raw milk formula that very closely matches mothers milk.
One thing to note, is at 17 months, your little one may not need all the ingredients in the recipe. But then again, he may need them for awhile.
Our little one has thrived on this formula (adoption) since 4 weeks of age, and we have actually witnessed her severe under bite heal over the last several months.

http://www.westonaprice.org/childrens-health/recipes-for-homemade-baby-formula

[AnkaJones]

I would think of Soy Milk (and of cow's milk, but that's not your issue) as just another food, rather than nutritionally subing for your breast milk.  A 17 month old wouldn't need formula, so you probably don't need to worry about making formula.  It's worth noting that if your LO was <1 year, you would want to use formula... when they used cows milk, babies didn't thrive, they died in droves.  "Dry nursing" as using cows or goat milk used to be called, was as near a death sentance as an infant could get.  While humanized animal milks (formula) are not as ideal as human milk for human babies, they are still much better than unaltered animal milks.  I have no experience with DIY formula using raw animal milks.

Toddlers go through phases where they want a lot of a particular food, and completely refuse other foods.  For the most part this is well tolerated.  You might want to mention your concerns to the pediatrician (hopefully you have one you can trust and work with).  Your little one may like soy milk because it tends to be sweeter than cow's milk, and more closely in flavor approximates breastmilk (try the comparison if you aren't too strict a vegan!).  At least your LO isn't fixated on chicken tenders

Best,

Anka

[BubblingBrooks]

Cows milk plain is problematic for two reasons. Its fat content is too low, and, its solid content is way too high for babies kidneys.

[Viriditas]

I'm not an expert in toddler nutrition, but I wouldn't feel comfortable giving a little one THAT much soy.  We do eat soy, and I'm not convinced it's the poison some people think it is.  But we limit it.  I like almond milk for a non-dairy substitute.  I know it's really high in calcium, but I'm not sure about other nutrients.  Almond Breeze is a good brand (but pricey).  And if you have a Trader Joe's near you, they have a reasonably-priced store brand almond milk ($3 for a half gallon).

 

[Caracol8]

Originally Posted by Viriditas 

I'm not an expert in toddler nutrition, but I wouldn't feel comfortable giving a little one THAT much soy.  We do eat soy, and I'm not convinced it's the poison some people think it is.  But we limit it.  I like almond milk for a non-dairy substitute.  I know it's really high in calcium, but I'm not sure about other nutrients.  Almond Breeze is a good brand (but pricey).  And if you have a Trader Joe's near you, they have a reasonably-priced store brand almond milk ($3 for a half gallon).

 

 I would much, much, much rather go for the almond milk than soy milk.  I've learned that soy really should be limited -  like a once-a-week thing, a treat.  

[Asiago]

Regarding volume, if a child under 2 years of age is no longer breastfed, then 1-2 cups of milk along with adequate solid food, is reccomended by WHO. This particular page does not discuss milk in depth though, just volume in a note under the chart: http://www.who.int/features/qa/21/en/ 

I agree with Bubblingbooks about cow milk composition, it's does not appear suitable for human infant growth and development, never the less WHO seems to reccomend it.

Regarding the term 'milk' used for soy, coconut, almond it seems like pure marketing- it's odd to me. Milk comes from a mammary gland of a mammal.

If a child or adult  has normal levels of estrone, estriol and estrogen, and normally functioning adrenal glands (as they also produce estrogen along with aldersterone and cortisol), then I would think soy in moderation would not impact endocrine or immune function.

I may be wrong though, especially pertaining to a child. In moderation though I would think it would be acceptable though. To drink regularly in large volume may not be a good idea.

If any of that made sense ....more or less what mom always said "everything in moderation".

Edited by Asiago - 9/26/11 at 12:55pm

[BubblingBrooks]

That is why I posted the formula recipe. It is for goat or cow milk, and is watered down, has lots of different fats added to it, as well as cod liver oil, and other vitamins.
The cost is the same as commercial formulas, and because of its very high profiles of natural D and A, will assist in healing palate issues, such as under and over bites, as well as crowding.
I have viewed lots of documented evidence, and have watched this occur with my own little one.
 

Originally Posted by Asiago 

Regarding volume, if a child under 2 years if age is no longer breastfed, then 1-2 cups of milk along with adequate solid food, is reccomended by WHO. This particular page does not discuss milk in depth though, just volume in a note under the chart: http://www.who.int/features/qa/21/en/ 

I agree with Bubblingbooks about cow milk composition, it's does not appear suitable for human infant growth and development, never the less WHO seems to reccomend it.

Regarding the term 'milk' used for soy, coconut, almond it seems like pure marketing- it's odd to me. Milk comes from a mammary gland of a mammal.

If a child or adult  has normal levels of estrone, estriol and estrogen, and normally functioning adrenal glands (as they also produce estrogen along with aldersterone and cortisol), then I would think soy in moderation would not impact endocrine or immune function.

I may be wrong though, especially pertaining to a child. In moderation though I would think it would be acceptable though. To drink regularly in large volume may not be a good idea.

If any of that made sense ....more or less what mom always said "everything in moderation".

[Snapdragon]

I am wondering what specifically about cow's milk you are skeptical about? I totally  respect your choice and opinion but I personally think organic cows milk is better for a young toddler on a regular basis than soy. Just my opinion and each person has their own reaction to it- but I think many many toddlers have done very well with cows milk and that it gives good sources of calcium and fat and other things. I don't think as much milk as a 17 month old would want /need would be good in the form of soy. I weaned my now 18 month old around 16 months (I still pump but I only yield a few ounces a day so it is supplemental) but so far ds seems to do okay with cows milk.  Sorry if that was not helpful at all but my instinct response is that that is too much soy but again I am unsure of your specific reasons for not wanting to use dairy.

[GreenbankMom]

Snapdragon, I agree totally with your instincts about soy. Thank goodness the soy milk thing was only a phase. It lasted a few days and that was that. No more. My gut was saying it was not the right choice, and he quickly lost interest. So we are all happy. His obsession was definitely part of the weaning process. Interestingly, I offered him a bottle of freshly pumped milk, and he tasted it, wrinkled his nose and said it was yucky. So now we drink no milk, which is fine with me. 

My opinions on dairy are a work in progress. I read the book "whitewash", which was advertised heavily in Mothering mag. It gave me a lot to think about and I haven't quite decided how I feel about dairy. I use organic cheese sparingly, but otherwise we have just cut it out of our lives for now. Then I saw this article http://www.grist.org/scary-food/2011-09-12-not-your-grandmas-milk, and it made me leery of organic milk now too. I'm just so sick of food not being real food. It gets exhausting trying to sort out what is done to our food before we get it to our tables. 

So I am not sold on any ideas yet. I just try to make sure my son gets Vit D and calcium and fat from food. Healthy nutrition is a full time job!

Thanks to everyone for their thoughts and advice. It gave me a lot to think about.  

[APToddlerMama]

Glad to hear you stopped with the soy.   A lot of kids seem to have issues with it, and the obsession is a big tip off that it is a problem.  My son was that way with Rice Milk.  What we settled on and I'm really happy with is Coconut Milk.  Not the thick kind in the can....the kind that comes in the refridgerated section at the store in a half gallon carton.  Silk just started making one but we buy the unsweetened SoDelicious brand.  It has I think 5g of fat per serving so it is nice that there is still some fat in there for kids.  DS loves it.