or Connect
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Mom › Parenting › raising grandchild hiv positive & mother was on pot...
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

raising grandchild hiv positive & mother was on pot... - Page 3

post #41 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokering View Post

 

I do NOT believe she should have to hide her sorrow and horror under a pasted-on smile of "Of course, dear, whatever you like". I would have thought MDCers, of all people, would be able to grasp that.



 

Having kids doesnt make on an authority on morality. Why would MDCers have an extra sensibility to this topic?

post #42 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by beenmum View Post

 

Having kids doesnt make on an authority on morality. Why would MDCers have an extra sensibility to this topic?


Possibly because most of us are more involved in our childrens lives than most.  It's hard when you walked beside them for so long offering your guidance and now you have to just watch them make all their decision and mistakes.  You're still their parent, you still love them, you want the best for them and you hope that they can do positive things with their lives. 

 

post #43 of 62

Just a reminder that abortion debate is NOT allowed on MDC.  I would prefer to keep this thread open for suggestions to the OP, but if it develves further into abortion debate, it will be removed.

 

Thank you for you cooperation,

TiredX2

post #44 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by beenmum View Post





 

Having kids doesnt make on an authority on morality. Why would MDCers have an extra sensibility to this topic?


I agree. In fact, with all the horrid MIL stories on this board, you'd think most MDCers would be screaming "They are adults, its not your business what they choose to do with their bodies." This situation is the exact reason that DH and I never told MIL or my parents about decisions regarding our bodies. For us that has included abortion, experimental drug use, sex with other people, tattoos, and more regular use of alcohol and tobacco than our parents.

We never talk to them about these issues because we know what the reaction would be: some form of entitlement about how we treat our bodies. We are big kids now, who can make adult decisions about our bodies and choose to do things that we enjoy and think are fun. I hope when my kids are grown I have the sense to remember that just because I gave birth to them doesnt mean I get to have a feeling of entitlement over their body for the rest of their life. When parents of adults make situations all about them, it makes the adult child inclined not to tell them things. For example, my mother made a bunch of judgmental comments on my wedding day because I "put graffiti all over her child's perfect body created by God" when she looked down and noticed that I had tattoos on my feet less than three minutes before I had to walk down the aisle. Parents being judgmental about the decisions their adult child makes often times comes off as making the situation all about them instead of like they are trying to help.

I think its likely that this young girl is going through a hard time and she probably thinks her boyfriend's mom is making everything all about how she feels, not how the girl who is actually pregnant and having to make a decision feels. Having both a mother and a MIL who take almost all the happy or stressful times and turn it into how THEY feel about MY happy or stressful time, I would say the OP should let the girl know she is there if she needs to talk, that she would be willing to help raise the baby, and to please let her know if there is anything she can do- ONCE. And then let it go, and not say another word about it other than maybe asking if she wants to talk or how she feels AFTER the girl has made her decision.


Ive been with DH since I was 18, and there are a lot of really judgy things about his mom that I still havent been able to forget from those first few years we were together.
post #45 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adaline'sMama View Post
 In fact, with all the horrid MIL stories on this board, you'd think most MDCers would be screaming "They are adults, its not your business what they choose to do with their bodies." This situation is the exact reason that DH and I never told MIL or my parents about decisions regarding our bodies. For us that has included abortion, experimental drug use, sex with other people, tattoos, and more regular use of alcohol and tobacco than our parents.
We never talk to them about these issues because we know what the reaction would be: some form of entitlement about how we treat our bodies.


yep. I tell my parents very, very little about anything in my life. They like to tell me what they think of everything and I'm over it, so I don't have real conversations with them. shrug.gif

 

I would really prefer to have a very different kind of relationship with my children when they are grown. I would like them to know that I love them and trust them no matter what (even when they make mistakes) and that even if they make a choice I wouldn't, I'll still be here for them. No matter what. It's partly because I never had that from my own parents that I really want to provide it for my kids.

 

For me, that's part of what unconditional love is.

 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokering View Post

See, I don't see how "solid relationship" equals "supporting a decision one thinks is wrong".

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokering View Post
 I can think of circumstances in which I'd say "ehh, fait accompli, no big deal", and circumstances in which I'd have to say "I can't talk about this with you, and I need my space from you for a while".


We have very different ideas about what constitutes as "strong relationship."  To me, a relationship where one person stops speaking to the other when they don't do what they are told isn't a strong relationship.

 

I can imagine scenarios where I wouldn't allow my adult child to live at home (such as  if they were currently engaging in activities that were illegal), but I can't image anything that would cause me to stop speaking to them. I've been on the other end of those conversations. I've no intention to ever, ever repeat them.

 

(and of course I talk to my kids about all sorts of decisions that will come up in their lives. They know my views. They also know that they can have other views and still be totally and completely loved and accepted. They know my love for them is unconditional.)

 

post #46 of 62

 

Quote:

Having kids doesnt make on an authority on morality. Why would MDCers have an extra sensibility to this topic?

I never said having kids made one an authority on morality; sorry if my statement was ambiguous. But the general "vibe" on MDC is, or used to be, "just because a parenting practice is legal and/or mainstream doesn't make it right". Look at the Case Against Circumcision forum. It's full of people who don't take their friends'/relatives' decision to circumcise lightly, and when someone posts saying "Ugh, my SIL is going to circumcise her boy and it makes me sick, the poor baby, what can I do?", people don't generally respond by saying "Support her or you'll ruin your relationship with her", or "It's her legal right, how dare you judge her"; nor indeed "You haven't said anything nice about your SIL in this post, what a horrible person you are". They're more likely to say "I know, it's awful, I had to drop a friendship over this because I couldn't look her in the eye knowing what she did to that sweet innocent baby". Some people even recommend laying on the guilt trips or pushing information beyond the normal boundaries of politeness. Now, whether that's right or wrong, they're not doing it because they're horrible people who want to cause the mother to suffer, or want to control her body (after all, it is her hands which will have to change nappies, her eyes which will have to look at the baby's penis from time to time). They generally consider any hurt feelings or ruined friendships to be an unfortunate side effect of striving for the greater good (ie, protecting the baby's right to bodily integrity).

 

And I've seen the same attitude time and time again on MDC on all sorts of issues. Formula feeding, front-facing carseats, feeding kids junk, spanking, whatever. When children are (in the perception of MDCers) being harmed, most posters here don't fall back on "but it's the mother's legal right to do XYZ". They consider that irrelevant to the issue: everybody knows it to be the case, but most posters draw a very clear distinction between the legality and morality of the case. (As, indeed, many MDCers do about things which ARE illegal - marijuana smoking, raw milk, whatever.)

 

So I can't help but find it a little disingenuous that everyone's repeating the "but it's her legal right" line here. Nobody's been debating that. It's not the point.

 

Quote:
I agree. In fact, with all the horrid MIL stories on this board, you'd think most MDCers would be screaming "They are adults, its not your business what they choose to do with their bodies."

That is indeed another common MDC vibe, but there are two people's bodies involved in abortion. And MDCers also tend to be pretty strong on people not doing what's bad for their children's bodies. I don't think I've ever heard "She's an adult, if she chooses to feed her six-week-old baby Sprite it's not your business" - KWIM?

 

[ETA: Not that I'm trying to imply MDC is generally pro-life; in fact, I've noticed the opposite. I'm just noticing people using arguments on this thread that they don't use about parenting choices they actually think are wrong, and that makes me wonder if they really stand for those principles in general, or are just coming into this thread to berate the OP for being pro-life in any way they can.]

 

Quote:
We have very different ideas about what constitutes as "strong relationship."  To me, a relationship where one person stops speaking to the other when they don't do what they are told isn't a strong relationship.

Don't be rude, please. "When they don't do what they're told" is a gross mischaracterisation of what I said. "When they do something you think is highly immoral" would be a better description. And would you really "completely accept", say, a son who was a serial rapist, or made a constant stream of anti-women comments every time he opened his mouth, or who joined the KKK? What people do and who they are are not separate things. There are things which can, and should, legitimately break a relationship, permanently or temporarily; and other things that can, and should, require a "time out" when one person's too upset to interact nicely for a while. You've never said to your SO "I'm too mad to talk to you right now, I'm going for a walk"? You've never had a "cooling-off" period with a friend after a fight? You've never had a friend with whom you avoid the topic of politics or religion, because you know his opinions differ to yours and you'll just end up getting mad at each other?


Edited by Smokering - 10/5/11 at 12:46pm
post #47 of 62

This post has been removed due to privacy reasons.


Edited by rainbow_mandala - 11/16/12 at 4:09pm
post #48 of 62

smokering you're a very gifted writer! Everything I felt about the vibe of this thread is exactly what you typed out. Only I have a hard time putting feelings into words. So I read a lot of threads and rarely respond. The next time I need to have a talk with my boss, can you be my translator ?!?

 

thumbsup.gif

post #49 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokering View Post

 

"Ugh, my SIL is going to circumcise her boy and it makes me sick, the poor baby, what can I do?", people don't generally respond by saying "Support her or you'll ruin your relationship with her", or "It's her legal right, how dare you judge her"; nor indeed "You haven't said anything nice about your SIL in this post, what a horrible person you are". T.


IMO, there is a big difference between how a young adult treats their OWN body and how adults treat innocent babies and children. If a mom wants to get upset that her 19 year old has a tattoo, she is being ridicuolous. If a mom wants to get upset that her kid is feeding her grandbaby sprite at 6 weeks and cutting his penis up, its completely different.

And, please, let me know if I need to remove this part, but it all goes back to what you believe in regarding the topic at hand.

Personally, I believe that embryos are not the same as living, breathing human beings. Im against the death penalty, against child abuse, and against circ because IMO those are all in violation of human rights.IMO, If you can not surrvive outside the womb yet, you are not yet eligible for human rights.


I just dont think saying that MDCers who care about babies and whether or not their SIL circs is AT ALL the same as saying that parents should know when to stop overparenting their adult children.

Edited for the addition of clarifying that my beliefs are personal, not fact.
Edited by Adaline'sMama - 10/5/11 at 3:13pm
post #50 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adaline'sMama View Post


IMO, there is a big difference between how a young adult treats their OWN body and how adults treat innocent babies and children. If a mom wants to get upset that her 19 year old has a tattoo, she is being ridicuolous. If a mom wants to get upset that her kid is feeding her grandbaby sprite at 6 weeks and cutting his penis up, its completely different.
And, please, let me know if I need to remove this part, but it all goes back to what you believe in regarding the topic at hand. Personally, embryos are not the same as living, breathing human beings. Im against the death penalty, against child abuse, and against circ because IMO those are all in violation of human rights. If you can not surrvive outside the womb yet, you are not yet eligible for human rights.
I just dont think saying that MDCers who care about babies and whether or not their SIL circs is AT ALL the same as saying that parents should know when to stop overparenting their adult children.



I'm not stepping into a debate about abortion, but to the bolded....that's not fact- that's your own personal opinion about in-utero babies. Many people see it differently.

post #51 of 62
Edited to reflect your point.
post #52 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokering View Post

 


" there are two people's bodies involved in abortion"


But, you know, while we are clarifying what is fact vs. what is opinion.....I feel like MDC is always quick to jump on these debates to remind us that abortion debate is not hosted here as soon as anyone who is prochoice speaks up, but pro life comments like this can be slipped in without anyone blinking an eye.
post #53 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by grandmaB440 View Post
 I have my kids growing up and now my 18 yr old son has an 18 yr old gf who found out yesterday that she's 6 weeks pregnant.  She is making an appointment with Planned Parenthood today for an abortion.  

 

I now am hurting and in severe distress over the idea that this girl might abort my first grandbaby.  

 

Totally understandable that you are in severe distress.  It is terrible to think your first grand baby will never be born and how all that would have been might not be, how that will effect not only you, the baby, and your own children and their families in the present and future for their whole lives.  I am so sorry you are going through this, I have nothing to offer except that confirm you are indeed going through a terrible situation and I can understand you wanting to help and do anything in your power to help.  

You mention your faith, can you talk with some leaders in your church and also get some counseling for yourself personally to help during this difficult time.  Some people may have their own thoughts of what they "might think, feel, or do" if this happened to them and their own children but really, you are not thinking in theories, this is real life for you, don't let anyone belittle your emotions, feelings, or kindness and intention to help in a really tough situation.  
 

 

post #54 of 62

I think it is really ridiculous to be debating the morality of abortion on this thread.  OP's post isn't really about abortion or this girlfriend.  It is about worrying about the health and well-being of her grandchild and grieving the possibility that she may not be able to meet her first grandchild.  I think we should all be able to offer her support for that.  While some may feel OP is judging behind the scenes, the fact is, everyone judges, including those of you who are calling OP out on judging this girl.  She has not brow beaten the girlfriend or her son. 

 

OP--I am sorry you're in this situation.  Though I haven't ever been in the same position, I imagine that I'd be really sad, worried, and stressed.  I hope you can find peace one way or another.  Maybe talking with your religious leader will help.  Please remember that you are not responsible for the decisions your son and his girlfriend make.  Though it is normal to grieve, please remember that you have offered them what you can, but ultimately it is their choice. 

post #55 of 62


 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smokering View Post

 

 when someone posts saying "Ugh, my SIL is going to circumcise her boy and it makes me sick, the poor baby, what can I do?", people don't generally respond by saying "Support her or you'll ruin your relationship with her", or "It's her legal right, how dare you judge her"; nor indeed "You haven't said anything nice about your SIL in this post, what a horrible person you are". They're more likely to say "I know, it's awful, I had to drop a friendship over this because I couldn't look her in the eye knowing what she did to that sweet innocent baby"

 

The entire point I've been trying to make is that how a parent deals with their adults child making a choice this disapprove of *may* have a profound effect on that relationship for years, possibly forever.

 

If someone (any one) decides to do something you disapprove and you want to END the relationship over it, that is, of course, your choice.

 

But going back to the fact that this thread is on mothering, I suspect that most moms on this thread would not easily or willingly end their relationship with their adult child. I suspect that some moms do not realize that how they handle such difficult situations may effect how much they know about their child's decisions and lives for a very, very long time. Dropping a friendship is not on the same level as stopping speaking to your child.

 

If someone wants to cut their adult child out of their life over abortion, then that's their choice. But I think they should do it with eyes wide open -- not delude themselves into thinking they can say and do anything they want and their adult child will stick around. If a parent is fine ending or seriously damaging their relationship with their adult child, then I've nothing to say. My point is only for a parent who would wish to avoid that.  If you are OK cutting your child out over or an issue, great, but if not, it would be best to consider what you wish the relationship to be like going forward when deciding your course of action.

 

There's nothing my kids could do that would cause me to cut them out of my life. Nothing. My parents cut me out of theirs when I left their religion. (they eventually let me back in, but I've never felt the same about them). It's not a family pattern I'll repeat.

 

I don't really see the thread as being about abortion, but how to deal with the fact that once our children are adults, that may do things we disprove of and we'll have to figure out how to deal with that. I don't see "stop speaking to them" as being in line with APing. 

 

post #56 of 62

 

Quote:
The next time I need to have a talk with my boss, can you be my translator ?!?

Sure, if you don't mind getting fired. :p

 

Quote:
But, you know, while we are clarifying what is fact vs. what is opinion.....I feel like MDC is always quick to jump on these debates to remind us that abortion debate is not hosted here as soon as anyone who is prochoice speaks up, but pro life comments like this can be slipped in without anyone blinking an eye.

Heh - I always feel like MDC moderation is skewed pro-choice. I guess it's a case of noticing what pesks ya; like the way Christian MDCers feel MDC is largely pagan and atheist, and pagan and atheist MDCers feel it's largely Christian (came up in a thread on TAO awhile back). But yes, you're right, not everyone considers the fetus' body a "person's body". A "human body" might have been a less contentious way of putting it.

 

Linda on the Move: I actually agree with you to some extent, and I haven't recommended the OP stop talking to her son or the girlfriend. (I think the "relationship with her child" thing might be a bit of a red herring, though - the mother isn't her child, and we don't know what her son thinks about the whole affair - for all we know, he doesn't want her to have the abortion.) I just don't think she should feel guilt-tripped into supporting the decision simply because it's legal, or because her moral stance might cause offense. It was a minor point... initially.

 

post #57 of 62

if the OP's a staunch pro-lifer she may not be ever able to deal with the GF and the decision (if she did abort)---while it seems to me that she is firm in her convictions she may or may not know (I learn towards that she doesn't based on how she worded her replies) that her actions may cause a serious rift

 

 

 

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokering View Post

 

"Ugh, my SIL is going to circumcise her boy and it makes me sick, the poor baby, what can I do?", people don't generally respond by saying "Support her or you'll ruin your relationship with her", or "It's her legal right, how dare you judge her"; nor indeed "You haven't said anything nice about your SIL in this post, what a horrible person you are". T.


IMO, there is a big difference between how a young adult treats their OWN body and how adults treat innocent babies and children. If a mom wants to get upset that her 19 year old has a tattoo, she is being ridiculous. If a mom wants to get upset that her kid is feeding her grandbaby sprite at 6 weeks and cutting his penis up, its completely different.

bold- regarding this thread- this is exactly how I see this situation 

 

 

as with ending the relationship- and really this thread is about the "relationship" -IMO foremost 

 

To me this is a trivial matter (while I know to others it is not) and I do know of a completely different circumstance that would cause me to end a relationship with my child-It is a little to hard to say (or even know) how you would deal with adult children if you don't have them--they are a different breed-I have one. You can think you never can do it and you get hit with something that completely changes your mind (not to mention your world)--------------it does happen, some people have moral hills to die on, others never even see a hill to climb and others get hit by avalanches and it is what it is---same as here- unless you have had an abortion you don't have a clue-IMO


Edited by serenbat - 10/5/11 at 5:46pm
post #58 of 62
I haven't read all of the posts, but a lot of them are awful! Why is it okay for all of u to judge the OP but not okay for her to have an opinion about her 18 yr old's life. I highly doubt that if your 18 yr old was having a baby that you wouldn't have an opinion! This woman is asking for advice and support which is what i thought this site was about, but is instead being torn apart because her views don't jive with others..again what i thought this sit was about!
Op - if u r still even bothering to read all of this crap, i hope things r going well with your family
post #59 of 62

Uh... Ok, while the OP hasn't returned... we've kind of all found a bit of a good topic.  While abortion isn't exactly the topic, mothers and their adult offspring have become the issue.  So if it helps someone... then why not?  If she read through it all she would hopefully come away with a new perspective.  I'm not talking about a different view on abortion, I'm talking about a different view of the situation altogether.  I've learned a few things reading this thread.  I have come away with a slightly changed view myself.  And I'll leave it at that.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tincia View Post

I haven't read all of the posts, but a lot of them are awful! Why is it okay for all of u to judge the OP but not okay for her to have an opinion about her 18 yr old's life. I highly doubt that if your 18 yr old was having a baby that you wouldn't have an opinion! This woman is asking for advice and support which is what i thought this site was about, but is instead being torn apart because her views don't jive with others..again what i thought this sit was about!
Op - if u r still even bothering to read all of this crap, i hope things r going well with your family


 

post #60 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adaline'sMama View Post


" there are two people's bodies involved in abortion"
But, you know, while we are clarifying what is fact vs. what is opinion.....I feel like MDC is always quick to jump on these debates to remind us that abortion debate is not hosted here as soon as anyone who is prochoice speaks up, but pro life comments like this can be slipped in without anyone blinking an eye.



Ah, I saw the edit of your post. :) Re: the above, It's funny, because I kinda think the opposite. Maybe it's more about perspective than we think. And for the record,  where I personally fall on the pro-life/ pro-choice spectrum is not something that can be explained in a sentence. But this thread was going along just fine with everyone telling the OP that her son's gf had a right to abort her baby and thank God she lives in a country where she has that right, and it's not the OP's business, etc., etc. The mod stepped in with her reminder after smokering posted.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Parenting
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Mom › Parenting › raising grandchild hiv positive & mother was on pot...