Charting to Avoid/ Fertility Awareness October - Page 3

[LionessMom]

i am not so mad anymore. lol. that is the great thing about knowing you are in your luteal phase. you can tell yourself to calm down and not let your hormones make you crazy. now that i know what is going on i can manage it better. it was really cool knowing what i was looking for and then spotting it. and then realizing what it means. i wonder then if i will start having shorter cycles or if this was a fluke. i think it is like a puzzle, figuring out every cycle what is going on and knowing you know what you are looking at. i think it is cool. but there is a failure rate and i wasnt following the strict rules of using protection or abstaining until after o because i thought that it would be 20 days again till i had to worry. but when i noticed i didnt feel dry anymore and i was looking at DH in a different way, i figured it was happening early. so i put in my pessary and started testing with opks. when i got my first pos opk i was pretty excited to realize that i had known it was coming early. it really upped my confidence. i knew 5 days ahead of time just by paying attention. i am in amazement at my body.

[physics girl]

Originally Posted by LionessMom 
 it was really cool knowing what i was looking for and then spotting it. and then realizing what it means. i wonder then if i will start having shorter cycles or if this was a fluke. i think it is like a puzzle, figuring out every cycle what is going on and knowing you know what you are looking at. i think it is cool. but there is a failure rate and i wasnt following the strict rules of using protection or abstaining until after o because i thought that it would be 20 days again till i had to worry. but when i noticed i didnt feel dry anymore and i was looking at DH in a different way, i figured it was happening early. so i put in my pessary and started testing with opks. when i got my first pos opk i was pretty excited to realize that i had known it was coming early. it really upped my confidence. i knew 5 days ahead of time just by paying attention. i am in amazement at my body.

Very cool, LionessMom.

I'm just checking in... I'm on cd5. I started taking 50mg of B6 each day starting fairly late in my last cycle to see if it will have an effect on my luteal phase, and, it may just be coincidence, but this has been my least painful period in years. It's definitely worth taking it every day for a few cycles to see if it continues to help.

Last cycle the drying up of my mucus didn't seem to match the timing of my temperature shift as well as it usually does, and I'm not entirely sure I correctly classified all of the mucus since on some days it was pretty scant and thus harder to interpret. It wasn't crucial to know exactly when I o'd since I was abstinent all cycle, but I'm going to try checking my cervix every day to see if that makes things clearer. I also got some cheap opk strips from Amazon; I know they are significantly less reliable than checking mucus and temping, but I'm curious to see whether they'll provide any meaningful data.

[LionessMom]

i felt that using the opks along with charting cm and stuff helped a lot. i also get middlesmertz and obvious emotional signs. things i never tied to my cycle before i started charting. now i definitely know my hormones affect my emotions.

i have been taking a b complex with the b6 and b12 in it. i did go from an 11 day lp to a 13 day lp last cycle. eager to find ut if i go to a 14 day lp this time. 

[Devaya]

Just an update to say AF arrived today, still not sure quite what happened there with my LP - my temps didn't go down before menstruation started, still remained above the coverline but it is very clearly AF today. 

The usual combination of relief and slight disappointment even though i know now is not the time to get pregnant! It's really hard doing this method sometimes and having the self control (fortunately BF has a bit more of it than me!) when I am really wanting a baby. 

[clavicula]

I have a question! (again, lol)

I guess I am about to ovulate, 4th day of EWCM, high, soft cervix, O pain, etc. However, yesterday and the day before EWCM was tinged with blood (brown-ish, not bright red). Today it is cleared up, looks like eggwhite again. What was this? Something hormonal? I was reading around and find confusing stuff (this is good, no this is bad, go see a gyn). 

What do you think? Should I worry here? Never happened to me before. 

L

[dreamingtree]

I thought I read in TCOYF that sometimes you can have some spotting when you ovulate. Don't quote me on it! Do you have the book you could reference? I may be able to find my copy and look it up

Originally Posted by clavicula 

I have a question! (again, lol)

I guess I am about to ovulate, 4th day of EWCM, high, soft cervix, O pain, etc. However, yesterday and the day before EWCM was tinged with blood (brown-ish, not bright red). Today it is cleared up, looks like eggwhite again. What was this? Something hormonal? I was reading around and find confusing stuff (this is good, no this is bad, go see a gyn). 

What do you think? Should I worry here? Never happened to me before. 

L

[dreamingtree]

Well here's how it's going so far charting while taking Micronor. Confusing! As predicted :) I don't really get what's going on with it.   I am using both TCOYF online charting and Fertility Friend. Trying to decide which one I like better. I think I prefer TCOYF in a lot of ways.  Also, I am not sure I'm that great at interpreting my CM/Cervical position. I'm trying, but for one thing I don't have a lot of CM but the quality of it does change.  And I'm trying to get better at knowing what my cervix is doing.  Practice, practice is the only way, I guess. 

http://www.tcoyf.com/media/p/1475449.aspx

My fertility friend chart is in my signature. 

[Monkey Keeper]

Hey all!  I need to join. I'm on my 2nd pp cycle with my 3rd child. We have charted to both conceive and avoid since July '05. Here is my chart. I'm still nursing, and DS cosleeps part-time, so I think my temps are going to be wacky. My cycle that just ended was very clear in terms of CM or CP. Even with NO temps, I knew when to expect AF within a day or two. This is typical for me and actually how we conceived DD2 even while nursing a 9mo.

I will be lurking because I need a refresher on avoiding. We currently are preventing with p/o during fertile times; often we use a condom during those times. At this point we are not sure whether will will move to TTC in November (OMG, that's NEXT MONTH) or not--we're on the fence about a 4th at this time.

Looking forward to getting to know you all!

[JenRN]

I have a question about CM.

Normally, I just check internally (since I also chart CP). It seems like I have lots of fertile/fertilish CM (lotiony, creamy) ALL THE TIME, but there's never very much of it. Sometimes it gets a little stretchy, but then goes back to lotiony. Rarely, it will be sticky/tacky. I realized that it never makes it onto the TP (or my undies), I only know its there because I check internally.

Anyway, to my question. I was wondering what you ladies do who don't check CP. If I were just to check at the vaginal opening, there would be nothing. I only realized this because today I honestly thought I peed myself a little bit, but when I went to the bathroom it was just a glob of CM. (Today is CD 32, last cycle I O'd on CD 41 so I might be gearing up here).

My cycles are crazy long since they came back PP, I suspect I have PCOS and my DD still nurses sometimes (maybe twice a day). I'm thinking of stopping checking CP (seems unnecessary to me), but am concerned that I wouldn't be able to trust the "lack" of CM I'd get externally.

Does anyone else notice a difference between checking CM internally vs. externally?

[LionessMom]

Originally Posted by clavicula 

I have a question! (again, lol)

I guess I am about to ovulate, 4th day of EWCM, high, soft cervix, O pain, etc. However, yesterday and the day before EWCM was tinged with blood (brown-ish, not bright red). Today it is cleared up, looks like eggwhite again. What was this? Something hormonal? I was reading around and find confusing stuff (this is good, no this is bad, go see a gyn). 

What do you think? Should I worry here? Never happened to me before. 

L

you can bleed a little when the egg erupts. this might be what you are seeing. i think that if it was  more often and not during o or right before menses, that it could be a sign of cervical infections. but if you had an infection, the egg white would have also looked different. yk maybe creamier or smelled funny or something. sometimes the cervix can get irritated and when it opens. most likely it is from the egg breaking out. there is no hole on your ovary so it has to literally tear through the wall of the ovary to get out. the blood will get sucked into the fallopian tube with the egg. the little fingers will sweep it down and out the cervix it will come. 

i am having some pain. well, not bad pain. more like i am being pinched in the ovary. i am on 7 dpo. i did have it at o for a day but it went away. now it is back. i know that it is the corpus luteum but why would it hurt now? wierd. i just got done reading the billings method book. pretty cool. i think that was my 5th book about temping and cervical mucus. lol. i think now i feel like i know what is going on. the next book i am going to get is one about nutrition and cycles or the one about using your temps and chart to diagnose gyn problems. is it wierd that i am totally into studying this? lol. 

[dreamingtree]

bump for this because I'd like to know also!
 

Originally Posted by JenRN 

I have a question about CM.

Normally, I just check internally (since I also chart CP). It seems like I have lots of fertile/fertilish CM (lotiony, creamy) ALL THE TIME, but there's never very much of it. Sometimes it gets a little stretchy, but then goes back to lotiony. Rarely, it will be sticky/tacky. I realized that it never makes it onto the TP (or my undies), I only know its there because I check internally.

Anyway, to my question. I was wondering what you ladies do who don't check CP. If I were just to check at the vaginal opening, there would be nothing. I only realized this because today I honestly thought I peed myself a little bit, but when I went to the bathroom it was just a glob of CM. (Today is CD 32, last cycle I O'd on CD 41 so I might be gearing up here).

My cycles are crazy long since they came back PP, I suspect I have PCOS and my DD still nurses sometimes (maybe twice a day). I'm thinking of stopping checking CP (seems unnecessary to me), but am concerned that I wouldn't be able to trust the "lack" of CM I'd get externally.

Does anyone else notice a difference between checking CM internally vs. externally?

[Monkey Keeper]

Originally Posted by JenRN 

Does anyone else notice a difference between checking CM internally vs. externally?

Absolutely. And without checking internally, I'd NEVER trust it. Mine is very, very different at the vaginal opening as opposed to at the cervix at times. And since you rely on knowing your most fertile mucous of the day to determine if it's a "dry" day or not, I have to check internally.  

I am also one who has lots and lots of CM throughout my cycle, fertile or not. It takes quite a few cycles to figure out your Basic Infertile Pattern, which for me is creamy and sometimes lots of it.
 

[dreamingtree]

Originally Posted by PinkBunch 

Absolutely. And without checking internally, I'd NEVER trust it. Mine is very, very different at the vaginal opening as opposed to at the cervix at times. And since you rely on knowing your most fertile mucous of the day to determine if it's a "dry" day or not, I have to check internally.  

I am also one who has lots and lots of CM throughout my cycle, fertile or not. It takes quite a few cycles to figure out your Basic Infertile Pattern, which for me is creamy and sometimes lots of it. 

So how often during the run of the day would you do an internal check? And what time is best? (For avoiding) I'd like to use the FAM for TTA but I'm so nervous that I would screw up and think I was having a "dry" day when I wasn't... 

[JenRN]

Originally Posted by PinkBunch 

Absolutely. And without checking internally, I'd NEVER trust it. Mine is very, very different at the vaginal opening as opposed to at the cervix at times. And since you rely on knowing your most fertile mucous of the day to determine if it's a "dry" day or not, I have to check internally.  

I am also one who has lots and lots of CM throughout my cycle, fertile or not. It takes quite a few cycles to figure out your Basic Infertile Pattern, which for me is creamy and sometimes lots of it. 

Good to know I'm not the only one! Thanks for replying.
 

Originally Posted by infojunkie 

So how often during the run of the day would you do an internal check? And what time is best? (For avoiding) I'd like to use the FAM for TTA but I'm so nervous that I would screw up and think I was having a "dry" day when I wasn't... 

I am also wondering this. I normally check my cervix (and therefore CM) once a day, maybe in the afternoon, and otherwise just check the TP/vaginal opening. We use condoms at the moment, but I would like to convince DH of the effectiveness of this method for TTA, and want to get in the habit of doing it "properly."

[LionessMom]

made it to 10 dpo! now i only have to wait 3 or 4 more days for af. lol. 

i got a pretty chart this month. definitely see the o date and the temp change!

[CarsonBookworm]

Hi guys. I'm no longer with my Fiance. It was better that our relationship ended. In the chaos and stress that followed, I didn't chart this current cycle's BBT after 9/25ish and had no CM at all this cycle. I'm currently awaiting AF, but have no idea when she is due to arrive,  so I can resume charting...which is more for knowledge purposes as I'm not in nor plan to be in any kind of a relationship for a long, long time.

[JMJ]

I've been out of town without internet access, so I'm playing catch-up.

Devaya, did your temp ever drop?  Sometimes it takes a couple days into your period before the temp drops.  I hear you about how hard it is to CTA when you're really wanting to have a baby.  It really tests your self control and makes you question if it's still worth postponing.

Clavicula, that is called breakthrough bleeding, and the manual I have devotes an entire little chapter to it.  If you download the manual from NFP International, I think they have it there too.  It is basically that the endometrium builds up so much that estrogen alone can't completely sustain it, and a bit sheds off.  It is more common in premenopause and during long cycles.  Just be sure to treat any bleeding not preceded by a thermal shift as potentially fertile.  For this reason, mucus-only methods treat all bleeding as potentially fertile.

Infojunkie, I wouldn't write your chart off yet.  It looks like you probably haven't ovulated yet.  For regular CTA, I would be careful about FF's ovulation detection and TCOYF's fertile windows.  Most of the time, both are right, but they're wrong just enough to cause problems.  I'm surprised to see that much CM while taking a progestin pill.  Your body may be trying to ovulate (most people do on mini-pills), and CM like that could keep sperm alive for a few days or more.  Even with taking the pill, if you have really fertile CM, you may choose to consider yourself potentially fertile.  It will be interesting to see how this all works out.  Thanks for sharing.

Welcome, PinkBunch! ...even if you're only here for a short time.

JenRN, it's important to know that pretty much all of the research on CM is on external CM.  Sorry for being vague (I'm remembering from reading an article in a CCL magazine from over a year ago, and I don't still have it), but there are little pockets (I forget what they're called, so if anybody else has heard of this, please chime in) in your vagina that collect a lot of the cervical secretions during the infertile period, and then they close during the fertile period to allow secretions to get out to the vulva for external observation.  What is there internally during the rest of the cycle is not really a good indicator of your fertility status.  The only potential exception is that some people (though this is more anecdotal evidence rather than thorough scientific investigation) find that they can see a change in their internal secretions a day or two before their external CM starts and use this to determine the start of the fertile period.  It is quite possible to have fertile CM in your cervix that hasn't fallen out yet but could nourish sperm, and if you don't have enough days of CM externally, these internal observations have the potential to assist by giving you more warning, but again note that there's not a lot of scientific investigation on this.  External CM is the best-researched symptom, followed by temperature.  CP is a far third, and everything else (internal CM, ovulation pain, moods, etc) may be helpful to individuals, but there's not enough evidence that all women can rely on them.  If you want to do internal CM observations (might as well if you're already checking your cervix), I would be sure to do them at the same time every day and not worry about whatever you always see.  Assume that it is your basic infertile pattern, and only worry about it if you notice a change.  If you are concerned about your CM giving you enough warning before ovulation, use one of the other rules based on previous history (CD 5 from TCOYF, CD 6 from CCL and NFPI if your shortest cycle is long enough, Doering rule, 21/20 day rule, etc) if you have enough history.  You may also look into Marilyn Shannon's Fertility Cycles and Nutrition for some hints on things that might help you to increase your CM.

Hugs, CarsonBookworm.  A relationship ending is always really difficult, even if it's for the best.  It's a strange feeling to have no clue when AF is due after getting used to knowing what's going on.  Sorry to hear things are so rough right now.

Butterflymomma, have you gotten any answers yet?

[buterflymomma]

Hey Ladies!

Here's a little update for you. I had my second sono today. There was a baby and hb (yay!), but I am now measuring 2 weeks behind. So, I don't think we are out of the woods just yet. My OB doesn't seem too concerned since we have had major progress from last time. Remember last time he wasn't even sure if there was a yolk sac. He has me going back in two weeks for another sono because he knows how nervous I am. I am still pretty worried becuase I don't see how I can be that off. I am hoping the baby is just growing a little slower than normal and in two weeks it will catch up.

[dreamingtree]

Thanks for your comments JMJ :)  I am thinking of going off the Micronor altogether and just using the FAM to avoid... discussing it with the man, but I am a bit nervous to take the plunge  on relying on CTA.   Any tips for the first timer?  I would imagine I should take a few normal cycles to figure things out before trusting it. 

[JMJ]

Wow, butterflymomma!  That is a miracle in and of itself.  A heartbeat is a very good sign, no matter how old the baby is measuring, because it means that your baby is alive.  I can't speculate on how this could possibly be since the baby is now measuring as being conceived after you had a positive pregnancy test, but I believe in miracles, and a beating heart on a tiny baby right now sure looks like a miracle.  You and the little one will continue to be in my thoughts and prayers as you go through this uncertainty.

Infojunkie, when you decide to rely on charting to avoid is up to you.  Coming off hormonal birth control can make the first few cycles a little bit crazy, but if you can get a chart that clearly shows that you have ovulated and are in the post-ovulation infertile period, I would feel comfortable relying on that as soon as you get there.  You may wish to ask on this thread for confirmation that you're there at first or any time you are unsure.  I do recommend assuming that you are potentially fertile (which is a form of relying on charting) from the time that you start your period until you have confirmed ovulation for at least your first cycle of charting, though it may be wise to chart at least 3-6 cycles before you use much of that time in your early cycle.  For example, after your first full cycle including a temperature rise (so you can be sure you ovulated and are actually having a period), you may be comfortable assuming that you are infertile for the first couple days of heavy flow or even as far as CD 5 or 6 as recommended by various NFP/FAM manuals.

What to expect: Your body compensates being on hormonal birth control, and it may take some time for the synthetic hormones to completely clear your system.  Really, you should be open to expecting anything, and you should expect that it might change.  You might ovulate and have a perfectly textbook cycle your first time, or you might experience delayed ovulation, mid-cycle spotting, irregular mucus patches, bumpy temperatures, a weak temperature rise, an incomplete CM dry up, a difficult to understand cervix, and a short luteal phase, but it will get better.  If your cycle is crazy one cycle, don't assume that it will be next cycle.  You can go from having all those things in one cycle to having a cycle with early/on time ovulation and a long enough luteal phase.  You may have several strange looking charts, or your cycle might snap back into place quicker than you think.  (This is actually good practice for charting the return of fertility while breastfeeding.)  There are people here with a lot of experience, and if you have any questions, feel free to ask.  We won't always know what is going on, but we can give you a pretty good idea about whether it is safe to assume infertility or not.  When in doubt, assume that you are potentially fertile.

Your risk of getting pregnant is highest as you are learning because not only are you learning your body's signals and the rules of charting, but you are working out the details with your partner of how to have and use sexual self-control.  Keep this in mind and spend just as much time working on the communication with your partner as with learning the rules.  Most NFP failures are not method failures.  They are user failures, and often not because the woman didn't know the rules well enough.  I think it has the potential to do wonderful things by opening up communication with your partner, but it takes patience and self-control, and it's good to agree about how to handle potentially fertile times and develop the self-control to not just get caught up in the moment and change at the last minute.  It's just good to be aware of the psychological factors involved.  I think developing that kind of sexual self-control can be great for your relationship if you're both on the same page.

Edited by JMJ - 10/19/11 at 7:34am