Food no-nos - Page 2

[SweetPotato]

Originally Posted by sunflwrmoonbeam 

SweetPotato, I have a similar background to you, but obviously a totally different attitude. My first few pregnancies I did everything right. Everything, including making myself sick taking prenatals. I was "perfect" for over a year and still lost 3 pregnancies. Then I started doing the research, realized most of the food no-nos are completely overblown and stopped caring about it. I had one very difficult pregnancy and now a comparatively easy pregnancy.
Also, if you won't do anything that could potentially harm your child, you've stopped going in cars, right? Because getting in a car accident is by far the most dangerous thing you can do while pregnant, and far more likely than listeria or fetal alcohol syndrome or toxoplasmosis, etc. So, if you really were consistent, you'd never leave the house. Why would you hold to restrictions that aren't actually backed by rigorous research but still do one of the most dangerous things possible?

I don't want to get into an argument over this, so I won't comment again, but I have to say that I find the hyperbole and being called inconsistent to be unecessarily insulting.  I kind of expect that we should be able to have different opinions here without getting personal.  I might also clarify that my dh and I are both published research scientists (with him now in a medical field), so I understand "rigorous research" and am capable of interpreting scientific studies, etc.

 I think one of the things that we all do when making these decisions is to weigh not only the risk, but also the weight of the restriction.  Not driving a car would change our lives quite a bit- more than I'm willing to do (though, to be honest, I drive maybe a max of 5 miles a day on slow quiet roads- not exactly the same as communting on the Jersy turnpike or something).  But, for me at least, skipping out on spicy Italian Subway sandwiches for a few months isn't really that big of a sacrifice.  I'm also of the personality type that I would blame myself if something went wrong that I felt I could have easily prevented.  I get that not everyone is like that.  It's not much fun, feeling that responsible, but it's who I am, and MUCH easier and less stressful for me to avoid a few foods than to go around worrying about it (which is totally what I'd do otherwise).  I'm honestly envious of how some folks are able to be more laid-back about pg, and I'm being much more so this time around than I was with dd.  But if I think I'd stress about something, then I don't think I'm bad or inconsistent or ignorant or something for trying to minimize that stress for myself.  If doing a little thing like skipping brie helps me feel more confident, secure, relaxed, and happy about this pregnancy, then I'm going to go with it.

[Lovesong]

My mum smoked while pregnant with me...and I turned out just fine. She was all prepared to cut smoking entirely, but the doctor said no because of her high blood pressure, which would rise even higher if she cut the smoking. That to say that sometimes the medical evidence for something being dangerous isn't necessarily false...but sometimes the benefits outweighs the risks.

I'm not pregnant yet...but reading the list of "no-no's" I very much feel they boil down to one thing: knowing your food and how to handle it. Normally, deli meat isn't a problem as long as it is stored in a cooler, moved to a cooler bag when you shop if you have a long car ride in front of you, and then placed in the fridge when you get home. Normally, eating liver every day is not recommended because of the health benefits (liver is healthy) outweighing the health risks (liver does contain a lot of bad stuff, too). Normally...really, the only thing that seems to be important is good food hygiene. If you treat your food right, it shouldn't be any more dangerous eating tuna on your sandwich than crossing an empty road.

[sunflwrmoonbeam]

SweetPotato, by all means do what you feel comfortable with. My problem with all these food restrictions is that they are onerous and that I have a serious problem with blanket recommendations. I do find it ridiculous that people panic about lunch meat but think driving is a-ok. For you no lunch meat means skipping Subway for a few months. For me it eliminates the one quick source of protein that I can eat when my blood sugars are going wonky and I'm about to pass out. For you skipping unpasteurized milk means no soft cheeses, for me it means either completely giving up milk or buying it from a factory farm owned by a teabagger rather than my small local Amish milk supplier. And again the protein intake.

I have been publicly reamed out for consuming something while pregnant that another person thinks I shouldn't (lunch meat, wine, peppermint tea, the medication that kept my daughter alive) because "something might happen to the fetus!" Let's not even get into things like taking baths or doing yoga or walking. Even medical practitioners are inconsistent about this stuff. I had a partial previa early in my last pregnancy and was told I had to limit my walking to under a mile a day. When I mentioned that I was working as a shelver at the library and consequently spent 5 solid hours a day walking or crawling, she was fine with that. I just couldn't walk outside of work, or something. How that made any sense whatsoever I have no idea.

I don't care what any individual does, but I do care a lot about the rhetoric surrounding pregnant women. It's one thing to say "I don't feel it's worth the very small risk that something could go wrong if I do x" (notice the 'I' statements) but a VERY different thing to say "x is unsafe and I"m going to be good and not do it" (generalized proscription) especially if common activity y (driving, induction) is dramatically less safe but given a green light by society.

*****

In other news, did you know that the flu vaccine has a higher pregnancy risk rating than heroin? Flu vaccine = risk category C, heroin = risk category B.

[AiryFairy]

I don't necessarily follow the "rules" but go with what makes sense and feels right for me. I'm much more likely to get sick from factory farmed meat than from consuming raw milk or the local organic farmed eggs raw. Not to mention we don't really know what all them antibiotics and hormones are doing to our body and the effect on a growing fetus. I seek out the Amish raw cheese because of it's nutrition which pasteurization otherwise depletes. I won't eat foods if they contain HFCS, MSG of any form, nitrates, colorings, artificial flavors & preservatives, sodium benzoate, aluminum, yada, yada, the list is way too long. It's not good for my body and definitely not good for my growing baby.

Some things that I know are not healthy, I choose to have in moderation. Like ice cream, a slice of cheesecake or a couple pieces of dark chocolate (aside from the sugar I actually believe chocolate has health benefits in moderation, even for baby).

Sunflwrmoonbeam- very interesting info on alcohol consumption. I heard some of that before. My OB actually recommended that I have a glass of wine in my 3rd trimester with my 1st DD because it would help relax my irritable uterus. I think done responsibly in moderation it can be beneficial (I would skip the wines with nitrates though as they're carcinogenic) not only because of the resveratrol but anything that psychologically relaxes mother is good for baby too.

[zuzusplace]

Yeah, as far as doctors "prescribing" things that seem a little a typical, with my first pregnancy I was having contractions from 20 weeks on. By 32 weeks they were so uncomfortable I was having trouble sleeping. My OB told me to take one vicodin WITH a half of a wine cooler each night to relax me and help with the discomfort. She said at the rate I was going I wouldn't have the energy to get through labor. Not only drugs or alcohol, but both together!!! It worked and my daughter was born happy and healthy (and extremely bright even with all the damage it "should" have done) 4 weeks later! Most mothers panic if they even think they drank a wine before finding out they were pregnant. Anything and everything in moderation. Stress is bad for the baby too!!!

[sunflwrmoonbeam]

Anything in moderation, plus I strongly believe the drugs they use in the hospital to stop labor are more damaging than a glass of wine. With DD I had oodles of prodromal labor and I'd go through the list of things to do (drink water, eat protein, take a bath (another no no!), rest, cal/mag) but the only thing that would work was wine. My kid was and is very very healthy.

[Mom2SammyJoe]

A farmer from our church hosts a hayride and apple picking every year. This isn't a full-fledged orchard, but his parents do press fresh apple cider for everyone. That was talked about tonight at church as the event is next week. My friend nudged me and said that it is too bad I can't have any cider because it isn't pasturized. Are you kidding me? It wouldn't have even occurred to me not to have any cider! I probably would drink it and pat myself on the back for getting another fruit serving in. I won't feel terribly deprived without it, but I don't see how it could be bad for me. I will likely partake!

[piratemere]

Originally Posted by sunflwrmoonbeam 


I have been publicly reamed out for consuming something while pregnant that another person thinks I shouldn't (lunch meat, wine, peppermint tea, the medication that kept my daughter alive) because "something might happen to the fetus!"

Peppermint tea??? I didn't even know that was on the list.  Well, add that to the things I ignore.  What the heck is wrong with peppermint tea?!?

[ASusan]

The probiotics in the raw cider will be good for you! My local source of raw cider isn't doing it this year because the cider police got after them.

I don't know the deal with pregnancy and peppermint; my New Chapter Perfect Prenatal has peppermint in it.

However, peppermint during breastfeeding can dry you up. Mint is quite drying. I had 1 large cup of peppermint tea when DS was ~8 weeks old, and my over-producing, humongous breasts went down to nothing by the next morning. Oatmeal brought them back! And I didn't have mint for another 3 years.

[RosieL]

I find this thread interesting and lots of the claims surprising and worth a deeper look. If any of you have sources, e.g. heroine being a category B, listeria statistics (I was looking for those at the CDC website and couldn't find them a couple weeks back), or other claims that can be substantiated, I would love to look deeper at the sources. 

[kaismum]

If you google pregnancy drug class there are several sites that you can check things on, including heroin, which seems to be indeed be listed as a class B by several sites and a google of flu shot pregnancy class will get you that also. 

Here is an article from the NIH concerning listeria and pregnancy: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2621056/

This link: http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/package_inserts.htm will take you to a site where you can look directly at all the package inserts of vaccines including the flu vaccines for this year. The pregnancy class is usually listed toward the end of the insert and some are B and some are C. I think all of the packages say that they should be given to pregnant women only if clearly needed. 

Hope that is helpful. :)

[sunflwrmoonbeam]

Originally Posted by jennyvangy 

Peppermint tea??? I didn't even know that was on the list.  Well, add that to the things I ignore.  What the heck is wrong with peppermint tea?!?

It's not. This person heard something from someone once and therefore I'm expected to follow it. I have PCOS and the only reason I have 1.3 children is because I'm on metformin, which is perfectly safe for pregnancy and has been shown to reduce the risk of miscarriage in women with PCOS. This person mistook "metformin" for the name of some major migraine drug and told me I was going ot kill my baby by taking it. She didn't listen when I explained how wrong she was.
Let's just say that these aren't the only crazy wrong things i've heard from people. Because pregnant women are public property or something.

[sunflwrmoonbeam]

I found the pregnancy class of heroin in Medications and Mothers' Milk by Hale. Other googling says heroin is unclassified which I also find odd.

[zuzusplace]

Yeah, and when looking at the NIH website regarding listeria, the important part to note is the incidence of newborns having listeria at all, which I believe says it's 8.6 cases per 100,000 live births (AKA only .0086% of births!!!)

[ASusan]

The primary problem with listeria isn't that the baby is born with it, it's that it leads to infection in the placenta, which then can lead to miscarriage.

That said, I'm avoiding cantaloupes only because I'm allergic, not because of listeria.

And I eat lunch meat. And I would eat soft/raw cheeses if I could get my hands on them.

And apparently listeria is more likely to be problematic in the 2-3 trimesters, so gorge yourselves on lunch meat now, ladies!

[zuzusplace]

Miscarriage is more likely in the early stages, premature birth and still birth being more likely. From everything I've read though, the real threat though, seems to be in the risk of neonatal death, which is caused by infection in the new born. Further, the time frame on the disease is so insane as to limit a lot of concerns. For example, the CDC recommends that if the mother experiences symptoms within 2 months she should be treated with antibiotics, and if she is asymptomatic no treatment is necessary. Clearly this is not an overly virulent or fast moving bacteria. Further, it states that antibiotics are likely to resolve any potential problems with the fetus. It seems to me that this is not exactly the horrifying thing that people are led to believe it is (but then again the CDC is smart enough to acknowledge that soft cheese which are pasteurized are not a threat, something doctors seem to no longer do...maybe we should trust the CDC more than the OB's?)

[wendybird]

I actually do not think the lists are going overboard, nor that women should throw out caution and just eat whatever in moderation. Unfortunately even very healthy foods are contaminated by enviormental toxins at this point and what may have been fine in the past is just not the same food today. I do not follow any list religiously, but I do ,for example,decrease my consumption of fish because of mercury. After last years tragedy in Japan even more so. Soft serve ice cream...yeah, not touching that anyway. Same with lunch meat...most of these foods are really not that great to begin with. I do think it is great that everyone can make their own decisions, but let's not come down on those who choose to be more stringent.The foods are not arbitrarily placed on the list. JMHO. Live and let live and all.

[Ravensong13]

I don't eat anything on the no-no list, so it hasn't really been an issue for me. Kombucha was a big thing for me though. Some people say no, some people say yes. I've been drinking a bottle a day almost every day for years ( even when recovering from surgery) so I figured I'm okay. I think if I wasn't vegan, I'd stick the lists though, it's just how my luck runs. Out of six of us who went to Mexico last winter, I was the only one who managed to get round worm. Things like that tend to find me!

[tarabelle]

Originally Posted by sunflwrmoonbeam 

It's not. This person heard something from someone once and therefore I'm expected to follow it. I have PCOS and the only reason I have 1.3 children is because I'm on metformin, which is perfectly safe for pregnancy and has been shown to reduce the risk of miscarriage in women with PCOS. This person mistook "metformin" for the name of some major migraine drug and told me I was going ot kill my baby by taking it. She didn't listen when I explained how wrong she was.Let's just say that these aren't the only crazy wrong things i've heard from people. Because pregnant women are public property or something.

I was told by two young women who have never been pregnant that I should get rid of my cats.  This drives me CRAZY!

 

[RosieL]

Originally Posted by kaismum 

If you google pregnancy drug class there are several sites that you can check things on, including heroin, which seems to be indeed be listed as a class B by several sites and a google of flu shot pregnancy class will get you that also. 

Here is an article from the NIH concerning listeria and pregnancy: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2621056/

This link: http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/package_inserts.htm will take you to a site where you can look directly at all the package inserts of vaccines including the flu vaccines for this year. The pregnancy class is usually listed toward the end of the insert and some are B and some are C. I think all of the packages say that they should be given to pregnant women only if clearly needed. 

Hope that is helpful. :)

Yes, thanks. 

The claim that listeria is less likely to occur in pregnancy than car accidents is true, but with a ton of important stipulations. One can't conclude that it is safe to eat foods with a high risk of listeria based on that information. The listeria statistic is based on a country that has rules prohibiting consumption of these items, so the estimate may be an underestimate based on the restrictions we're already putting ourselves under. On the other hand, our food handling in this country may be so terrible that it's actually an over estimate. 

All of this is in risk analysis and impact of the choice, as someone above said. If you understand the risk (which is extremely hard to understand unless you do a lot of research), you can make an informed choice. The rest of us are all kind of just hedging and hoping. 

That being said, I would eat sushi if DH wouldn't get pissed at my about it. The bacteria that are most concerning in sushi die when frozen, and all legally-sold sushi in this country is flash frozen before being served. I think the sushi advisory is a case of over-caution before data produced results. Lunch meats, however, have been the known cause of fetal death. That's a different bag of worms.

(Note: If anyone can come up with a report of a pregnant woman having adverse effects from sushi consumption in the US, I would LOVE to see it. I looked and found nothing.)