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~October Pagan Parents Circle~

post #1 of 217
Thread Starter 

It's Autumn!  Or Spring for those "down under"!

 

We're entering that time of pulling in and reaching out, the swirling energies that call us to hearth and home while also drawing us towards fellowship and support.  Here's to a joyful harvest, healthy growth, and gentle discovery as we dance into this new season!

 

:)

 

post #2 of 217

I just posted in the other thread so I won't double post it here.  Just subscribing so I don't miss the new thread.

post #3 of 217
Thread Starter 

Maia- It's so hard!  Do ask though, because I think you could get away with "seasonal" that isn't "personal".  Though like others have said, it wasn't something I had to go through personally... when we bought the "downtown house" it was being used as an honest to gods "crack house" and there were literally dozens of people living there... there were people asleep on mattresses in the attic/basement, dirty diapers on the floor, doors nailed shut, and all sorts of ick.  And when we sold it the buyer stopped buy before the house was on the market... so total chaotic toddler + newborn life mess.  Actually, it was during dinner and she/the realtor just sort of wandered around while we ate!  And this cabin was stone cold empty when we bought it... no toilet, the kitchen sink hanging off the wall, no finished floors, no heat!  So I don't have a good "staged home" experience.

 

Have you checked out shows/books like Designed to Sell or TLC's staging show though?  I'm such a home network junkie!  LOL

 

reality- dh goes back to work (half days) tomorrow and I'm scared stiff.  Actually, it's not so much the home front that is getting me, but the thought of going out and about with all 4 kiddos.  Tiel isn't even 2 weeks old yet!  But dd1 and dd2 need to be dropped off/picked up from their afternoon program.  And I'm scared silly about getting ds into and out of the drop off process while holding dd3.  He is sooooo physical, and fast, and determined to be inolved... over the past week or two he has been a real handful, climbing out of shopping carts, running away on streets/in parks, throwing serious fall on the ground screaming fits, and often resisting his carseat with kicks/screams/self injury.  I'e dealt with it, but if Tiel is in my arms or in a sling... I'm lost.  I wont be able to physically restrain/protect both kiddos.  But I certainly can't leave ds and dd3 in their car seats in the car while I walk the kiddos into their programs or pick them up.  And what about shopping or just getting out?  ACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

It's possible that the afterschool program will have to go even if all there is well, just because I can't manage ds.  :(  How sad a testimonial to my parenting is that?  DH and I are exploring ideas, but oy!  To have the family held hostage somewhat by a high needs 2yo is frustrating as heck.

 

weather- berautifully autumnal, lots of wind and rain and mist!  But it's chilly and I seem to be getting a cold.  Of course!  LOL  I'm sleep deprived, worn down, still dealing with lochia/nutritional drains, newborn breastfeeding, a shifting season, and my adult partner is about to be taken away... why wouldn't I be getting a cold?  ;)  Ah well, it'll heal.  I'm already taking C, E, Omega3s, Iron, Calcium/Magnesium, and Probiotics along with my regular vitamins.  And I'm taking bach flower blends, homeopathic remedies, and herbs too.  My immune system is as good as it can be...

 

 

post #4 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by wombatclay View Post

reality- dh goes back to work (half days) tomorrow and I'm scared stiff.  Actually, it's not so much the home front that is getting me, but the thought of going out and about with all 4 kiddos.  Tiel isn't even 2 weeks old yet!  But dd1 and dd2 need to be dropped off/picked up from their afternoon program.  And I'm scared silly about getting ds into and out of the drop off process while holding dd3.  He is sooooo physical, and fast, and determined to be inolved... over the past week or two he has been a real handful, climbing out of shopping carts, running away on streets/in parks, throwing serious fall on the ground screaming fits, and often resisting his carseat with kicks/screams/self injury.  I'e dealt with it, but if Tiel is in my arms or in a sling... I'm lost.  I wont be able to physically restrain/protect both kiddos.  But I certainly can't leave ds and dd3 in their car seats in the car while I walk the kiddos into their programs or pick them up.  And what about shopping or just getting out?  ACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

It's possible that the afterschool program will have to go even if all there is well, just because I can't manage ds.  :(  How sad a testimonial to my parenting is that?  DH and I are exploring ideas, but oy!  To have the family held hostage somewhat by a high needs 2yo is frustrating as heck.


I can empathize, though I only have three.  It too me a long time until I was comfortable leaving the house with my children.  I would say that I only just started being comfortable this year and my youngest is not quite two!  I was overwhelmed at two, #3 was a surprise, and there won't be a #4.  If anyone can do it, I'm certain from what I've read over the years that you can.  Hang in there, I know with time things will get easier for you.  :0)

post #5 of 217

(((Clay)))  I know the feeling of "hey, why not add this to the already full load!" ... Would a wrap be more secure than a sling to free your hands to take care of DS? Is there homeschoolers in the area where you have to drop the girls? You could ask for a teen to meet you there and give you a hand for the drop/pick up time and to entertain DS while the girls are at the program?  I know my son would be willing to do that if we were closer.

 

post #6 of 217

My friend came and picked the kids for the day. It was nice to only have myself to care of for a day.

 

 

 

 

post #7 of 217

Clay-- I know just exactly how it is with a high-needs 2yo winky.gif Just, I didn't have 3 others to deal with, too. I would absolutely leave the two in the car, but instead of walking in, I'd have to have someone meet me at the door so the car could stay in sight.

 

As for Tor in public? Mama. Put that child on a leash. I kid you not. My ds would be a....well, he wouldn't be alive today if I had not harnessed him. Other people be damned-- your child's safety and your sanity trump other people's comfort (which is what one of you guys, I think, said, when I was talking about bringing ds into public women's rooms at his age).

 

Camping-- it was bloody freezing. But we had a great time, and the band was fantastic. Tuatha Dea, if y'all didn't catch my last post in the September thread.

post #8 of 217
Thread Starter 

We actually have tried those harness/leash things... ds is kind of like the deranged puppy, he just doesn't "get" the harness and knocks himself off his feet over and over (runs full tilt, hits end of harness, falls over).  DH and I kept waiting for him to learn but nope.  LOL  I was telling dh I'd give it another try though because yeah... he unlatches strollers/shopping carts and just climbs out while we're moving full tilt.  No fear.

 

And I'm a babywearing junkie!  I have slings, wraps, ergo, etc.  :)  Some mamas are diaper junkies but for me it's carriers.  My main worry is that when ds is upset he is VERY physical.  I've gotten black eyes, split lips, bruises, serious bites (broken skin) and so have his big sisters.  If dd3 is on my body she'll be at risk no matter how secure she is held.  :(  So I need to think up some techniques for keeping ds "on task" during pick up/drop off.  For example, dd2's integrated preschool is housed in linked classrooms on the second floor of a school.  To get there I have to go through the playground, past the gym, then up two flights of stairs and down a hall.  And the classroom itself is irresistable to ds (signing dd2 out takes about 5 minutes).  Then reverse the process.  If he decides he doesn't want to leave the classroom... or walk down the stairs... or go through the playground... it could get dicey.  So again I'm going to need some ideas.

 

I'll ask around about teens or friends who could meet up around pick up times... dh was thinking maybe I could get the kiddos up to his lab and he'd take 15 minutes off and take the older girls to afterschool.  The problem there is his schedule isn't really up to him... science happens when it happens and he an't be sure he'll have "those" 15 minutes.  But it could work for most days.  And it looks like with dd2 going to preschool on Fridays we wont be doing afterschool on Friday.  And dd1 really wants to join girl scouts and the only troop that has space for her meets on Monday evenings so we wouldn't do afterschool on Monday (too little time to get the girls at afterschool and still make it to scouts)... so afterschool would be only T/W/Th.  Which makes life easier in terms of schedule those it does affect the affordability of the program a bit (it's a flat fee no matter how many days/week you attend).

 

I know in a few months this will all be old hat... I remember the panic and stress of adding each new kiddo to the mix (I was TERRIFIED the first time I was alone with dd1, and then again when it was dd1/dd2, and yet again with dd1/dd2/ds).  And I have a few bribes to get myself through this coming weekend (when dh is off at the wedding).  But I really wish I could just sort of fast-forward to the confidence I'll have down the road, because I need it now!  If anyone has a crystal ball, now would be a good timeto share.  LOL

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

More seriously, a topic from last month's thread that is worth delving into this month... living in a non-pagan community, or near non-pagan family/friends/employers.  How much do you share?  How do you stay true to your own evolving beliefs and philosophies when they may not be shared by others, or when others might be actively hurt by those beliefs or antagonistic to them?  How do you balance being in the broom closet with being honest and true?  How do you know thyself if you can't BE yourself in public, or even sometimes in private?

post #9 of 217

I don't feel the need to "hide" but I don't go around saying I'm Pagan either...

 

My spirituality is more about being connected with the natural cycle of life, about acknowleging the sacredness in the mundane, about intention in my daily life and my own connection to the divine than about rituals so it's not obvious for people around.

 

I wear my Goddess pendant or my Spiral pendant, often get comment about how cool they look but people don't seem to see them as religious/spiritual symbols.

 

 

post #10 of 217

Subbing. No time to post right now.  Will come back Monday or Tuesday.

post #11 of 217
Took a walk in the woods today with the hubby. Trees so thick that the soft rain hardly hit the ground. My life is not perfect but I have a lot of gratitude to the universe for making my life enriched and so lovely and comfortable enough.
post #12 of 217

Weird, third attempt to sub.  I guess I'll write a note since the Subscribe button and my various electronic devices aren't working together.

 

post #13 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by wombatclay View Post

 

reality- dh goes back to work (half days) tomorrow and I'm scared stiff.  Actually, it's not so much the home front that is getting me, but the thought of going out and about with all 4 kiddos.  Tiel isn't even 2 weeks old yet!  But dd1 and dd2 need to be dropped off/picked up from their afternoon program.  And I'm scared silly about getting ds into and out of the drop off process while holding dd3.  He is sooooo physical, and fast, and determined to be inolved... over the past week or two he has been a real handful, climbing out of shopping carts, running away on streets/in parks, throwing serious fall on the ground screaming fits, and often resisting his carseat with kicks/screams/self injury.  I'e dealt with it, but if Tiel is in my arms or in a sling... I'm lost.  I wont be able to physically restrain/protect both kiddos.  But I certainly can't leave ds and dd3 in their car seats in the car while I walk the kiddos into their programs or pick them up.  And what about shopping or just getting out?  ACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

It's possible that the afterschool program will have to go even if all there is well, just because I can't manage ds.  :(  How sad a testimonial to my parenting is that?  DH and I are exploring ideas, but oy!  To have the family held hostage somewhat by a high needs 2yo is frustrating as heck.



 



Quote:
Originally Posted by wombatclay View Post

We actually have tried those harness/leash things... ds is kind of like the deranged puppy, he just doesn't "get" the harness and knocks himself off his feet over and over (runs full tilt, hits end of harness, falls over).  DH and I kept waiting for him to learn but nope.  LOL  I was telling dh I'd give it another try though because yeah... he unlatches strollers/shopping carts and just climbs out while we're moving full tilt.  No fear.

 

And I'm a babywearing junkie!  I have slings, wraps, ergo, etc.  :)  Some mamas are diaper junkies but for me it's carriers.  My main worry is that when ds is upset he is VERY physical.  I've gotten black eyes, split lips, bruises, serious bites (broken skin) and so have his big sisters.  If dd3 is on my body she'll be at risk no matter how secure she is held.  :(  So I need to think up some techniques for keeping ds "on task" during pick up/drop off.  For example, dd2's integrated preschool is housed in linked classrooms on the second floor of a school.  To get there I have to go through the playground, past the gym, then up two flights of stairs and down a hall.  And the classroom itself is irresistable to ds (signing dd2 out takes about 5 minutes).  Then reverse the process.  If he decides he doesn't want to leave the classroom... or walk down the stairs... or go through the playground... it could get dicey.  So again I'm going to need some ideas.

 

I'll ask around about teens or friends who could meet up around pick up times... dh was thinking maybe I could get the kiddos up to his lab and he'd take 15 minutes off and take the older girls to afterschool.  The problem there is his schedule isn't really up to him... science happens when it happens and he an't be sure he'll have "those" 15 minutes.  But it could work for most days.  And it looks like with dd2 going to preschool on Fridays we wont be doing afterschool on Friday.  And dd1 really wants to join girl scouts and the only troop that has space for her meets on Monday evenings so we wouldn't do afterschool on Monday (too little time to get the girls at afterschool and still make it to scouts)... so afterschool would be only T/W/Th.  Which makes life easier in terms of schedule those it does affect the affordability of the program a bit (it's a flat fee no matter how many days/week you attend).

 

I know in a few months this will all be old hat... I remember the panic and stress of adding each new kiddo to the mix (I was TERRIFIED the first time I was alone with dd1, and then again when it was dd1/dd2, and yet again with dd1/dd2/ds).  And I have a few bribes to get myself through this coming weekend (when dh is off at the wedding).  But I really wish I could just sort of fast-forward to the confidence I'll have down the road, because I need it now!  If anyone has a crystal ball, now would be a good timeto share.  LOL

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

More seriously, a topic from last month's thread that is worth delving into this month... living in a non-pagan community, or near non-pagan family/friends/employers.  How much do you share?  How do you stay true to your own evolving beliefs and philosophies when they may not be shared by others, or when others might be actively hurt by those beliefs or antagonistic to them?  How do you balance being in the broom closet with being honest and true?  How do you know thyself if you can't BE yourself in public, or even sometimes in private?



will he let you wear him on your back? can you wear both kids safely? as in will he not try to hurt someone? that has got to be hard. my littlest will be 2 on the 5th. and i remember when she was born, my high needs kid was 2. i almost bought a leash, but instead stayed home alot. she is 4 now and i still sometimes think i should havebought a leash. lol.

DH and I are in talks about having more. we think it is completely crazy bc of our health issues, our money issues, our living space issues, etc etc. but he understands that i look around and feel like i am missing someone. he isnt willing to say yes lets do it, but isnt opposed to an accident either. so he left it up to me i guess. so now i wrestle with the decision myself. i have a list a mile long of why not and only one reason to do it.

 

i just be myself. i dont bradcast it but i dont hide it either. i am sure everyone knows. funny, my mil is more ok now that i started attending a church even if it is uu. <shrug> i only know a couple people irl who are pagan here and the pagan community in the large town near here is small. i havent tried being a prat of the pagan community except here and amybe at the uu church sometimes.

 

post #14 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by wombatclay View PostWe actually have tried those harness/leash things... ds is kind of like the deranged puppy, he just doesn't "get" the harness and knocks himself off his feet over and over (runs full tilt, hits end of harness, falls over).  DH and I kept waiting for him to learn but nope.  LOL  I was telling dh I'd give it another try though because yeah... he unlatches strollers/shopping carts and just climbs out while we're moving full tilt.  No fear.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

More seriously, a topic from last month's thread that is worth delving into this month... living in a non-pagan community, or near non-pagan family/friends/employers.  How much do you share?  How do you stay true to your own evolving beliefs and philosophies when they may not be shared by others, or when others might be actively hurt by those beliefs or antagonistic to them?  How do you balance being in the broom closet with being honest and true?  How do you know thyself if you can't BE yourself in public, or even sometimes in private?


DS was just.like.that. JUST like. I just got kind of good at fetching him up before he crashed, but it didn't always work...whatever. It stinks watching your kid hurt, especially when it's bullheaded and self-inflicted, but you just kind of have to shrug and move on, y'know? R did that all.the.time. And no fear, either. You know on the playgrounds that are meant for 5-12yo's? And they have a fireman's pole that is about 6' off the ground? At 2, ds would walk right off of the opening. As if the ground under his feet kept going. Like Wile E. Coyote off the cliff, and he'd look down after to realize there's no ground? DS did that. Did not use the pole, or even notice it. I'd have to be under it to catch him every time.

 

My Paganism: now that I'm kind of practicing a dual faith, that's a weird situation. I'm really coming to the realization that I'm a Witch through and through and I just can't jive with the Jesus thing, but I'm still trying to reconcile both and find a way to believe that Jesus is God, too-- just, not the only one. As for being Pagan I am WAY out of the closet and I don't care who knows. But that took a long, long time. I guess that's part of my growing the not-give-a-shit bone.

Here's the funny part: DS thinks they are unreconcilable and that people will....I dunno, condemn us for the other. Like, he does NOT want the Catholics at the church where we take classes to know we're Pagan. And he's afraid, I think, of our Pagan community finding out that we "do" Catholicism. I guess that's being 10yo, though, huh? He begged me not to let on that we're Pagan at the Catholic church. I said, I am not ashamed of my spirituality and if I feel the need to let it out (which I have not, yet) then that's MY path, but I will not "out" him because that's HIS path.

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by Valerie.Qc View PostI don't feel the need to "hide" but I don't go around saying I'm Pagan either...

 

My spirituality is more about being connected with the natural cycle of life, about acknowleging the sacredness in the mundane, about intention in my daily life and my own connection to the divine than about rituals so it's not obvious for people around.

 

yeahthat.gif

 

But I am way open about it, if anyone asks. EXCEPT Baptists, in general....they are so "In Yo Face" down here that it's just not worth my time or energy.



Quote:
Originally Posted by wombatclay View PostIt's possible that the afterschool program will have to go even if all there is well, just because I can't manage ds.  :(  How sad a testimonial to my parenting is that? 


I meant to reply to this as well. It's NOTHING to do with your parenting. Which is why you have the others, so that they all can be testimony that everybody's different, and it's not you at all. I met a mom once whose 1st son was just off the wall. Just nuts off the wall. Her 2nd one was calm, compliant, an angel, behavior-wise. She had spent so much time in tears over the first one. She thought she was a failure as a mom. Then she had the 2nd one and she said "I know God sent me the 2nd one so that I would know I am not a failure as a mom".

 

Tor is just who he is. That's all. I have had people telling me that R chose me as a mom because he knew I could handle it. And those that believe in God say that about him, too, that God knew I could handle R and that's why I was chosen to be his parent. I seriously doubt <God's (or whoever's)> and R's confidence, most of the time, and I don't know who in the world thought I needed MORE patience, but most times it's a day-by-day thing. Lately, srsly, I am so afraid I'll be That Mom for the final time-- my son will be the one in the paper in the orange jumpsuit, or <gasp> that he won't make it through childhood or young adulthood because of stOOpid decisions and impulsiveness. I just keep trying to stay in the now. It's bloody hard, no mistake.

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by LionessMom View Postfunny, my mil is more ok now that i started attending a church even if it is uu. <shrug>

 


Isn't that the weirdest thing? People leave me alone because of the UU, generally shrug.gif What, because it's a building? headscratch.gif

 

post #15 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by pampered_mom View Post

I just posted in the other thread so I won't double post it here.  Just subscribing so I don't miss the new thread.



Welcome:)

 

 

 

post #16 of 217

Subbing and I will be back:)

post #17 of 217
I totally didn't manage to keep up with the September thread, but I'm back now!

Maia - We went camping and froze too, but I'm still glad to have gotten one last trip before the cold really begins.

Wombat - Good luck! I'm definitely jonesing for a third baby, but every time I think of the practicalities that would be involved in running around a five year old and a two year old and a baby, I know I want to wait. Four kids? You must be a rock star!

On being "out": I'm not out about being pagan. If people ask me about my religion, I generally talk about being Unitarain Universalist, which is a big part of my religious identity as well. There's a lot of misconceptions about Paganism, but also, there are a lot of different varieties of Paganism, too, and I think that a lot of people think of Paganism as being about Magick and Witchcraft, which is fine, but that doesn't really reflect my religious practices at all, and generally speaking, I don't have a lot of opportunities to talk about religion in depth, though I am joining the small group ministry through the UU church, so maybe this will change...

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone knew any good resources about learning about astrology from a sidereal perspective? I'm a complete novice at astrology, having brushed it off since I never even vaguely resembled being a Capricorn, but now I'm interested, particularly in resources that talk about the astronomy aspect of the whole thing, not just the woo-woo part, LOL.

Anyway, loving fall. It finally stopped raining, so the kids and I will be able to go back to furiously pressing leaves to decorate the altar. I have a straw wreath somewhere in my closet, and I'd love to use that as the base of a wreath for all the leaves we've pressed at some point. We definitely have color in our leaves, but next week is generally when the leaves have really turned. I'm so excited.

Oh, and we saw a turtle today swimming through the river! I have to say, as much as I hate the crime rates our neighborhood has, for a Pagan, it's probably the best place to be in the city. We see hawks, herons, turtles, woodpeckers, etc... all attracted to the river. The park district has decided to restore the native woodland (I had always thought that my side of the river was prairie, but whatever...) on the branch where we live. We are just starting the process of looking to buy our first home, but I'm hoping that we will see some of the shift of the wildlife as the area is restored.

And Samhain, oh how I love Samhain. One of my favorite holidays for sure. We just checked out a huge stack of secular Halloween books. I'm not exactly a great family historian, but I'm going to try to devote this month on doing more genealogy research. Anyone else getting the Samhain bug?
post #18 of 217
Fall has finally come to the Pacific Northwest.. today its cool and rainy as it will be until May next year. I've put a lovely bone broth in the crockpot and I'm spending my morning trying to tie up loose ends that may have unraveled lately..... you know phone calls, insurance forms, volunteer hours turn in sheet completed... it seemed apropos with Rosh Hashanah going on for our Jewish friends.

I'll do soup and biscuits for tonight's dinner.
post #19 of 217

subbing as no time to post right now!  Clay - my magic 8 ball says - outlook good! for the confidence question in managing 4 kiddos so there is light at the end of the tunnel.  I have more re: in/out of the broom closet.

 

Happy Monday everyone!

post #20 of 217

Aeress - Thank you for your welcome in the last thread.  It is encouraging to know that there are shared similarities.

 

I've enjoyed reading the other responses so far about being in the broom closet.  For our family, I think regardless of how new or not we are as Pagans, we will likely always need to remain in the broom closet when it comes to our family.  Dh's family is Baptist in the truest, most conservative sense of the word.  My new BIL is so anti-pagan that he would never accept us in any way and would likely mean that we would not be able to see my sister or their children (when/if they have any).  There are already tensions as it relates to my side of the family and BILs when the understanding was that everyone was an xian - his family does not celebrate Christmas, Easter, etc because of their roots in Paganism (some of his beliefs on the issue aren't correct, but you literally cannot reason with the man).  I can't even imagine what would happen if he knew there were real and actual Pagans in his midst. 

 

It feels disingenuous to continue on avoiding the topic and letting the family think all is as it ever was.  On the other hand, I've been doing it in one way or another for four years now.  We have similarities with universalism so we may just go with that which will still be difficult for the family to accept.  Still, since our families are very much the evangelical/fundie types, there's no room in there for anything other than their "right" answer.  Leaving that means we're in need of saving in their eyes and no amount of explaining otherwise will change that.  Dealing with that is not something I relish in the slightest.

 

 

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