~October Pagan Parents Circle~ - Page 3

[Maiasaura]

Originally Posted by Aubergine68  To make bone broth, I toss a carcass in the crockpot, cover with water, add a splash of apple cider vinegar, and simmer for a day or so, adding a little more water if needed. When the bone broth  is done, it should gel a little when cool.  I freeze it in muffin-tin sized portions (about 1/2 cup), put them in a ziplock and use it as the base for soup, beans, gravy, rice, steaming veggies.  I have lowish blood pressure and crave salt so the broth never tastes right by itself to me without a lot of salt/seasoning added, but I do sometimes drink a cup with salt, pepper and herbs as a hot beverage.  I don't mind the fat - if you do, cool it and skim it off, I guess.

Lovely, thank you! So all you add is the ACV? That sounds like a yummy hot beverage. And yeah, I have a thing for salt lately-- there are so many different kinds! I have heard about this pink Himalayan salt and I want to try it

Originally Posted by DaughterOfKali I've been busy trying to scramble to find someone who can sleep over and help take care of ds and me after my surgery (which has been moved up to Oct 18th!)

Also, as of right now, I don't have anyone who can be with me at the hospital.  My mother said she would drop me off but she wants to go to work.  She is only working TWO hrs that day.  Yet, she doesn't think it's worth taking the day off to be with her daughter who is having major surgery??  Wtf is up with that?  I held it in as long as I could but ended up sobbing when I got into bed last night.

That is pathetic of your mom I'm really sorry she's being such a.....well, <insert not so nice word here>. I hope it's not a UAV to insinuate

Speaking of mods, Clay, how are you doing? What did you work out with the daycare thing? How's the babe? How are you?

Oh, mamas!!! OMG I was in such a huff to buy tix to see M for next time, and I am SO GLAD I waited-- I just scored them for $100 less than I thought it was going to be, AND, I got return tix non-stop in time to get ds from school, almost I am just over the moon right now.

[Valerie.Qc]

(((DoK)))  not having support when we need it sucks, I hope your mom will realise her place is with you on that day.

Yay Maia! this is great!

Kids are starting to talk about Halloween/Samhain... I have a few ideas... Need to think more about it.  

[Aeress]

Mornin' dears!

DOK- :( How sad that your Mom won't be there for you. *hugs* I wish I lived closer.

Being In the Closet- While I call myself pagan, I think I am more UU focused right now. I am solitary anyways, so I don't always share every ritual, even with my family. For me, it is DEEPLY, personal. How I connect with the earth, the dirt, the Goddess (I really only connect with Brigid) comes out in my every day life, and I imagine people who are also earth centered, probably assume i am pagan. I am more of a kitchen witch, my garden, my cooking are all connections to the divine. While my path has lead me in very different areas, I am very at peace with my spirituality. My husband is a Universalist and does believe in God. I really don't connect with God/Goddess in any direct sense, though I am fond of The Green Man and Brigid, as I mentioned. I am however, very interested in the Celts, and I swear I must have once lived as one, cause I feel so strongly connected to it.

I love the autumnal weather! Erin was making a bouquet of leaves on our walk today.

[_ktg_]

Originally Posted by philomom 

Beef stroganoff for dinner, a classic fall dish, creamy and rich with sour cream in the gravy. Yum.

I would love your recipe for this!  It's a favorite of mine and I'm in the process of switching up our monthly menu for winter right now. 

[Aeress]

All this food- oh, it sounds so good! I am trying out a new diet (life style change) that naturally helps anxiety. While I feel better when I am dairy free, I also think it is time to either switch out some of the grains I eat or eliminate them. I am reading resources now, and mentally preparing myself for the changes. I love change, but not food change.

Samhain- I haven't decorated at all. :( You know what is weird, I feel connected to the season but don't feel like decorating, which is very weird for me. I am feeling overwhelmed by stuff, and I think that even though I would enjoy decorating, it would require me to get out and put away stuff. What I will do this year, collect nuts and leaves, maybe some berries and use them as decoration. Anyone else feeling this way? I am planning a service for Samhain at my church, so that will be meaningful.

[Maiasaura]

Mmm, beef stroganoff.

Originally Posted by Aeress All this food- oh, it sounds so good! I am trying out a new diet (life style change) that naturally helps anxiety. While I feel better when I am dairy free, I also think it is time to either switch out some of the grains I eat or eliminate them. I am reading resources now, and mentally preparing myself for the changes. I love change, but not food change.

Samhain- I haven't decorated at all. :( You know what is weird, I feel connected to the season but don't feel like decorating, which is very weird for me. I am feeling overwhelmed by stuff, and I think that even though I would enjoy decorating, it would require me to get out and put away stuff. What I will do this year, collect nuts and leaves, maybe some berries and use them as decoration. Anyone else feeling this way? I am planning a service for Samhain at my church, so that will be meaningful.

Same for me, Aeress, no noodles here. No grains. Does no grains supposed to help anxiety? Because I've been grain-free for awhile, now that I think about it, and my anxiety hasn't lessened any. What is your new life style change that helps anxiety? I'd love to check that out. No way I'm going dairy-free, though. I love cream too much!

No decorating here, either. But mine's because of the house being for sale. I miss having holiday themed stuff around, but same as you, boy-howdy I hate putting it all away!

OMG, DS is just....mamas, I do not know what to do with him. Yesterday was epic, for bad behavior at school. Not "bad" so much as he just can't (or won't) hang with the rest of the class and be one of the crowd, kwim? He is distracting, makes noises, keeps people from staying on task, does not stay on task himself, doesn't even try (though he says he does), and I'm in meeting after meeting to try to help him

He has such a good side-- but he's getting swayed by the devil on his one shoulder. He's going to be in so much trouble if he keeps this up. I was looking at wilderness programs and military boarding schools yesterday; that's how bad it was.

I'm at my wit's end. I told him if (and if he keeps up, it WILL happen) he gets kicked out of school, he is NOT coming home. That will be too much of a reward for him-- he's going to some program or other to straighten him out.

I spent most of the afternoon and evening crying. M is also feeling the same, his hands are tied. M was just like ds when he was a kid. And spent most of his growing-up years and adult years in trouble. He sees way too much of himself in ds. So much of an entitlement attitude. So much of a victim mentality. So much blaming others and deflecting responsibility and defiance.

And today? DS started out having a stellar day. Perfect, compliant, happy, easy-to-get-along-with behavior. I can't take the up-down-up-down. I'm so freaking tired.

And my boy is only ten. TEN. I can't even begin to imagine what the teen years will be like

I'm trying so hard. SO hard. I know it's not my fault, but I feel like a failure as a mama. I want to help him so much. And nothing helps. Nothing at all.

[vydalea]

Maia:  All I can do is send love and patience energy your way.  I cannot imagine what your situation with DS must feel like in your heart and head.  On the other, very extreme other, hand I'm happy to hear you scored a cheaper ticket to see M!  excellent.

Aeress: I agree with you about spirituality being deeply personal.  I wish this concept was more universally recognized.  What does the Samhain service you're planning involve? (i'm still new at this so i'm gathering lots of information to see what will jive best with me!!)

...and I also agree that all this talk of food is making me HUNGRY!!!

[Maiasaura]

Originally Posted by vydalea Maia:  All I can do is send love and patience energy your way.  I cannot imagine what your situation with DS must feel like in your heart and head.  On the other, very extreme other, hand I'm happy to hear you scored a cheaper ticket to see M!  excellent.

Aeress: I agree with you about spirituality being deeply personal.  I wish this concept was more universally recognized.  What does the Samhain service you're planning involve? (i'm still new at this so i'm gathering lots of information to see what will jive best with me!!)

...and I also agree that all this talk of food is making me HUNGRY!!!

Thank you, vydalea. Today has been almost perfect, with ds. I wish to hell I could...I dunno, KNOW, ahead of time, what to expect, instead of it always being a surprise. It's almost like ds has an instinct for really great behavior after a day (or week or month) like that, as a break for me...or maybe it's the Universe, I dunno. I just keep clinging to I wouldn't have been given this child if I weren't chosen to handle him.

Samhain-- I have planned and done rituals before, but I have to admit I steal bits and pieces from books and online and past rituals I've been to. Usually at home, I create an ancestor altar, but since my house is for sale...sigh. Nothing personal around the house. I did, this year, drag out this gorgeous photo album that my SIL and brother made for me as a gift after my father died. It's full of photos mostly of my dad, but his mother is in there, and her parents, and other relatives that ds has never met, nor likely will. DS is so confused by the family tree-- I wish he could meet some of these people. Alas, nobody lives near anybody anymore, nor is anyone in touch anymore

[Valerie.Qc]

I got a call from my father: one of the Mass he bought in memory of my mother will take place Oct.30. I haven't saw the link with Samhain's ritual till reading Aeress' post.  I'm not making fixed plans till I get this tube removed on Oct.17...

[wombatclay]

I'm offline for what, two days? and all ya'all go for epic posting records?  lol!  Autumn really is the season of the pagan parenting thread!  :)

No way I'm going to remember everything and everyone, but I'll try.

DoK- I'm so sorry.  I wish I lived closer!  I had my own "mother support fail" so I know how much it hurts and how deeply it can cut (remember how my mom was going to watch the big kids while I was at the hospital?  Well, she showed up but when DH came home to get the kiddos and bring them to meet their sister she left, and she didn't come back!  DH had to stay home with them so not only was I alone in the hospy for two days, but DH missed being with Tiel during her first days.  When dh called to ask where she was/when she'd be back so he could return to the hospital she told him she didn't have time to watch the kids after all).  It seems like no matter how many times my mom lets me down, I can't help but hope the next time will be different.  I'm sorry our moms seem to be operating on the same wavelength.  Hang in there.  Big, huge, sisterly hugs from me to you!  I'll light another candle.

Maia- :)  Yay for coffee mugs!  I have winter solstice mugs but hadn't thought about seasonally shifting mugs.  I'm so stealing that idea!  Good luck with your yo-yo child.  Who was it that suggested putting children in big barrels and leaving them there, deciding on whether or not to let them out once they're in their 20s?  Some snarky author I'm sure, but some days it seems like such a good idea.  That, or duct tape!  Whatever happened to the old tradition of fostering and/or apprenticing?  Kiddos do seem to listen better and apply themselves more when the message comes from a beloved aunt/uncle/teacher... anyone /but/ a parent.  I agree that kiddos let down their guard with parents who are offering unconditional love (hence tantrums for mama/dada but not for the teacher), and that it is crucial for kids to have that release and security.  But I wish there was a similar relesase/security valve for the parents!  I hope the good days outweigh the bad this week!

emotions- DH and the three older kids took off for the wedding this morning and I'm a mess.  PP hormones are /not/ helping.  All three kiddos were crying and strapping them into their carseats while they kept asking for one more hug/kiss was sooooo hard.  Plus I hate being alone... I get super jumpy/nervous/freaked out.  I think that's one reason I prefer urban areas.  I don't mind being on my own, but I like knowing that there are people nearby.  Just that background noise/empathic chatter is soothing to me.  I'm trying to convince myself that I'm on a staycation spa adventure with Tiel, that the weekend is going to be fun.  DH left a whole bunch of "treats" so really, I'm set.  Now to convince my emotions!  :)

school- Well, we're going to do the waldorf afterschool program for both girls on T/W/TH.  DD2 will attend the integrated preschool on Fridays, and dd1 will attend an evening Daisy Scout Troop meeting on Mondays.  For now, I'll drive everyone into DH's lab and DH will drive the girls to the afterschool program, picking them up after work.  DH will also drop dd2 off at preschool on Fridays.  Which means the only real pickup/drop off I'll be doing with all the kiddos is getting dd2 from preschool on Fridays.  The preschool is renting space inside the local Catholic school (hence the odd second floor joined suite thing) and they don't have the staff on site to escort children to the main gate so I will need to go and get her personally (they also use the pick up meeting to go over the day, discuss therapy goals, and do that sort of thing).  We'll see how it goes... it's just once a week and while ds could raise a stink/distrub classes/fall down the stairs in a tantrum, those can be dealt with as they happen.  And if he IS super disruptive then maybe they'll be more open to finding a way to bring Ro to the gate.  I don't know, but we'll cross that bridge when we get there (insert bridge over the river kwai whistle tune here lol).

seasonal crafts- we've had wonderful autumnal weather.  And overnight lows in the mid 30s.  Ack!  The tomatoes are totally gone from the farm thanks to those freezes.  Ah well!  I built a sort of bottle tree in our yard and I think I like it.  We used neat sticks/branches from our woods to build a "rustic" rose trellis last year, and I've put the bottles into the trellis.  I think we need to drink more wine!  LOL  Right now we only have 5 or 6 bottles and I think it'll look better with another dozen or so.  Once I'm out and about again I'll be checking the thrift store for funky bottles to add too.

broom closet- For those I've just met (heyla!  :) ), I grew up in a very strict, observant, Roman Catholic family.  Italian Catholic on my dad's side, Irish Catholic on my mom's.  We fasted on Wed/Fri, we attended daily mass, we did daily Bible/devotional readings, we said the Rosary (the long version) every day, we visited holy sites and shrines, picketed "godless" establishments, rallied in DC for various church causes, etc.  It was a very black and white setting.  And for my mom, it still is.  I found myself moving away from the conservative/observant traditions in large part because of all those holy sites... I started having amazing, impossible, no way to explain experiences at Marian shrines.  Once I was in college and began to really explore the world and the people in it, the snowball picked up speed.  I moved from Roman Catholic, to Celtic Rite Catholic, to "Christo-Pagan", to "Reclaiming style Pagan", to "ADF style Pagan", to where I am now (still Pagan and affiliated with Reclaiming and ADF, but more of the kitchen witch/Heathen variety).

While in college I stayed quiet around my parents in regards to a lot of stuff.  Not just religion.  Once out on my own I had a sort of "don't ask don't tell" policy in place with my parents and employers, but was otherwise out and open with friends, associates who asked, and some relatives (my brother, a few aunts/uncles/cousins).  My mom willfully ignored a lot of stuff... I was a dual major in college (anthropology/medieval history) and within each major I focused on the role of religion in society so she was able to "overlook" a lot of stuff by assuming it was school related.  And then when I was in grad school my dissertation field work was about women and religion so even though she went a bit crazy and actually stalked me during my field work again she could kind of blame school.  I've actually had several point blank conversations with her about how DH and I are Pagan and she still refuses to hear it.  Which makes me realize that all the energy I spent trying to hide myself really was wasted... some people just wont see the truth no matter what you do or don't do, and their response (good or bad) really is all about them and has nothing to do with you.

These days I'm totally out with 99% of the world.  That remaining 1% are mostly family members who would be hurt by my choices and who really don't need to know (like my 90+ year old grandparents who live in CA and know me/their great grandchildren through pictures and holiday cards... a "merry solstice" card would just confuse them).  And while I am open about who/what I am, it's not something most people pick up on right away.  My jewelry is subtle, the altars around our house are taken for nature based decore or waldorf nature tables by casual visitors, and I come across as your average librarian/mom of little kids... not a stereotypical "Pagan" (good or bad stereotype, though I wish I could pull off the Practical Magic vibe a bit more... or just have the house!  lol)

Ack... baby awakes!  Back to breastfeeding and diapers I go.  Hugs to all in need, posh coffee/tea and delish treats to all, and may everyone have a moment to breath today, free from worry, stress, and anxiety!

[vydalea]

Maia: Your outlook of knowing that you wouldn't have been given your ds if you weren't meant to handle him is amazing.  he is so lucky to have you, truly.  I'm glad for you that yesterday went well and wish you a whole string of them.  

Clay: Big hugs for you missin' your family!!  It must be weirdly quiet - I hope you can embrace it with your emotions as well as your mind!!  Hope you can find some funky tunes to liven up the quiet!  I enjoy living in an urban area for the exact reason you pointed out.  There's a constant hum of human existence.  I'm just one of those kinds of people (a Libra, go figure!).  I grew up on a dirt road in the middle of the country and appreciate having grown up there but give me a little city any time.  NOT a big city, though!  been there, done that, freaked out.  HAHAHA.  I need some trees and grass to lay my eyes on and dirt to play in!!!  When we lived in Baltimore (which is awesome and unique and super quirky fun) I just always felt like something was missing (a yard?) -- we lived across from a park and one day when we first moved there I took my book outside to the park to read under a tree, one of my favorite things.  People looked at me like I was a lunatic!!  Like... is she sitting on the GROUND?  ON PURPOSE?  hahaha.  so, a little city like where we are works for me!  *tangent over*

What does everyone have on the docket for this weekend?  It's my birthday weekend and it looks like it's going to be gorgeous here!!  DH is watching Z tomorrow so my sister and I can have a date day - i'm too excited.  I don't even know what we'll do.  Maybe I'll just make her drive around while I nap!  hahaha.  

[Maiasaura]

Originally Posted by vydalea Maia: Your outlook of knowing that you wouldn't have been given your ds if you weren't meant to handle him is amazing.  he is so lucky to have you, truly.  I'm glad for you that yesterday went well and wish you a whole string of them.  

we lived across from a park and one day when we first moved there I took my book outside to the park to read under a tree, one of my favorite things.  People looked at me like I was a lunatic!!  Like... is she sitting on the GROUND?  ON PURPOSE?  hahaha.  so, a little city like where we are works for me!  *tangent over*

What does everyone have on the docket for this weekend?  It's my birthday weekend and it looks like it's going to be gorgeous here!!  DH is watching Z tomorrow so my sister and I can have a date day - i'm too excited.  I don't even know what we'll do.  Maybe I'll just make her drive around while I nap!  hahaha.  

Thanks, vydalea. That outlook is more of an affirmation than what I feel...sigh. Mostly I feel like "why me?" but that's all I have to comfort myself with, some days.

ROFL "on the ground, on purpose"-- M told me two years ago that he hadn't touched ground barefoot in 25 years! And seemed proud of it! I was like, boy have I got my work cut out for me. Now he actually goes on the porch in bare feet sometimes

This weekend: I am SO annoyed. The dishwasher guy came to diagnose the dishwasher at least a week, maybe two, ago. When he was here, we looked (on MY computer!) for the part number, which I swear he wrote down. So he was supposed to come at 9am today to fix it. At like 9:10 he calls and says he does not have the part-- he thinks he has the wrong model number and can I look while we're on the phone to give it to him? Sure enough, he had the wrong one. He can get the part but not before Monday. Can he come Monday at 7pm? Um, srsly? NO. No freaking way. So I said 3pm, then it really started wearing on me all day. Got more and more annoyed, specially after I remembered the part about him looking up the part on my computer. So I called someone else. Talk about unprofessional! I'm so angry! And someone on my (extensive) local yahoogroup, a mamas group, recommended him. This group, I swear, is like a local Angie's List-- I wouldn't dream of hiring someone without consulting the list first for opinions. I'm just mortified about this idiot!

So, tomorrow, ds has a baseball game, but I'm going to juggle this new dishwasher guy around that. Beyond that, I don't know or care

[Aubergine68]

Hello!  Got my cup of coffee and a good night's sleep behind me, baked apples with almonds in the oven for breakfast, my daughter practicing piano....I've got a sunny day with no kids' activities before me (all cancelled due to the Canadian Thanksgiving weekend).  I have some (well, a lot)  of homework to do and some garden work when it warms up enough this afternoon. I think it will be warm enough this weekend to sit on the ground in the afternoons and sunny enough. I want to exercise, too.  I have to come up with gf dressing and mashed potatoes for dinner at my sister's on Sunday, too.  I want to see if my sister can take pictures of my family 

We took a big financial hit yesterday that I wasn't expecting :-(, but it clears some karma and I think makes the way forward more clear for my dh, who has been having some job difficulties.  He's started new work and I hope this is it for him. Did I mention that he's doing an early shift and we're all going to bed by 8:00 now?  I feel great - the kids are so well rested -- I just hope my dh adjusts ok.

Hugs to you Dok, and to Clay and everyone else who doesn't feel supported.  May the most motherly goddess of your affinity bring you comfort - and may we all be the mothers to our own children that they need us to be, hard as it is sometimes.

Clay, I 'd love to read about your experiences at Marian shrines.  I don't want to make you repeat yourself - have you written about them on the Pagan threads before?  I could search them.  I always get anxious when part of my family goes on a trip without me, too.  May their road be easy and may they come safely home to you!  Have a nice snuggly time with Tiel this weekend!

Fall- the trees are still more than half green, very unusual for this time of year here, but we've had a warm fall so far.  Our American elm leaves and oak leaves have been falling and the kids have been gathering them and making a pile in the back yard.  My apples are done and I just picked all the tomatoes yesterday to bring them in to ripen.  I still have root veggies, chard, herbs and lots of weeds in the garden.  I do have to pull all the baby elm trees out or they'll be too deep rooted next spring to get easily. We're making paintings with fall colors on cardboard and kraft paper and we have a lot of pressed leaves for collage.  I want to decorate with pictures the children make next week and then we'll switch to painting with black, white and orange for Halloween, Samhain.  Maybe I will only decorate with  the pictures the children make this year - I have SO much homework between now and December 16.  Better get to it!

Its chilly this morning and dh is at work- can't recall how to turn the fan on the furnace.  So I'm running the self-cleaning cycle on the oven - that should warm the place up.  Maybe I'll make some bone broth, too :-)

I hope everyone has a lovely day and a marvellous weekend.

[wombatclay]

Happy Thanksgiving to all you "up north" folks!  :)

We have a long weekend too so hopefully much of the North American continent will find some down time to recharge and reconnect this weekend.

wedding/trip- So according to google, the drive from our home to the wedding site should have been about 8.5 hours.  But apparently several roads were still out due to last month's storm damage, and of course trips with kids always take longer than they "should".  In this case they arrived at the lodge in just under 11 hours.  Obviously they missed the rehearsal and I really really REALLY hope the girls do ok during the ceremony... I'd hate for them to mess up Marie's big day.  I know dd1 will be fine, but one of dd2's sensory quirks is that she sometimes has a total meltdown if people "look at her".  It's unpredictable, but I'm worried she'll freak out halfway down the aisle.  I'd hoped she'd have the rehearsal under her belt (for her but also so dh could see how she handled it).

Speaking of sensory quirks- I've noticed that dd2 seems to struggle a LOT with pattern recognition.  Or rather, she sees the pattern but can't continue it on her own.  We have a little preschool workbook that is all pattern matching... for example a series of X then O then X then O, or a row of boxes with every other box colored in, or what have you.  The child is supposed to figure out what the pattern is and continue it (so the child colors in every other box, or selects the correct shape from the options provided, or uses a peg board to make the shape, and so on).  It's multi sensory, fun, and really basic.  DD2 enjoys playing with it.  But she has yet to be able to actually continue a pattern without complete prompting.  She's 4yo and I'm wondering if this has something to do with her SPD?  She has difficulty with locating herself in space and I wonder if that is spilling over into locating shapes/patterns in space too.  There is a lot of dyslexia in my mom's family, and a lot of synesthesia that adds a layer of complexity to things as well, so dd2 might be dealing with all sorts of things... but I guess I'm just surprised at how this is manifesting.  And surprised that I'm surprised.  I just didn't expect... I don't know.  I know she has speech and motor delays, I know she has sensory quirks (that have resulted in physical concerns like chronic constipation and small injuries from falls), I know she has a few funky neurological quirks (horners due to brachial nerve injury and reynauds),  but I guess I just didn't let myself think about educational/learning delays too.  I should have, but I didn't.  I'll let the therapist at the preschool know about the pattern thing and do more varied pattern work at home but I'm curious... anyone else have a kiddo who just doesn't "see" patterns?

Hmmmm... wonder if knitting would help?  I'm planning on teaching the girls to drop spin and knit this winter and knitting is a pretty "patterned" activity.

city/rural- I loved where we lived in Boston (Jamaica Plain, on a street that dead ended into a huge old cemetary).  There was that Arboretum, the Pond, the Cemetary, the Zoo and Botanical Gardens... but also the T, the buses, and one of the funkiest communities all right there.  And living in a triple decker on a street of triple deckers was perfect... there were always people and kids and that background of emotion/mental energy while at the same time you could see the sky and enjoy your space and plant flowers in the yard (our triple decker had a small front yard, about 3 feet "deep" and the length of the porch where I planted all sorts of flowers and climbing veggies... the top floor couple planted rose bushes in the side yard which was about 10 feet "wide" and the length of the house).  For two years I lived in a shared box of a room in Brooklyn and commuted to Boston every few weeks (I was in grad school in NYC, DH was working at MEEI in Boston) and the culture shock between NYC and JP probably helped me feel like JP was open/relaxed.  We've been back and compared to "middle of nowhere nature preserve" it does feel more built up (then again, it IS more built up since JP totally gentrified during the last 10 years).  There's no way we could afford to move back there, but I still dream of going back to that region.  Or at least to someplace more populated!  :)

website- found a fun website for Heathen parents the other day... while it doesn't actually speak to the beliefs of my family, the "You have a Pagan Student" letter to school staff is a neat idea (website here).  And I liked the "child's version" of the nine noble truths (here).  I'm still planning on making a quilt for the wall that has nine squares with the virtues.  I just need the time!  LOL

[Aubergine68]

Originally Posted by wombatclay   But she has yet to be able to actually continue a pattern without complete prompting.  She's 4yo and I'm wondering if this has something to do with her SPD?  She has difficulty with locating herself in space and I wonder if that is spilling over into locating shapes/patterns in space too.  There is a lot of dyslexia in my mom's family, and a lot of synesthesia that adds a layer of complexity to things as well, so dd2 might be dealing with all sorts of things... but I guess I'm just surprised at how this is manifesting.  And surprised that I'm surprised.  I just didn't expect... I don't know.  I know she has speech and motor delays, I know she has sensory quirks (that have resulted in physical concerns like chronic constipation and small injuries from falls), I know she has a few funky neurological quirks (horners due to brachial nerve injury and reynauds),  but I guess I just didn't let myself think about educational/learning delays too.  I should have, but I didn't.  I'll let the therapist at the preschool know about the pattern thing and do more varied pattern work at home but I'm curious... anyone else have a kiddo who just doesn't "see" patterns?

I  care for a 4 yr old girl who is very bright in *many* ways but I don't see her getting patterns yet, either - I offer manipulatives with cards that you match the bears or dinos or bugs to and continue the pattern quite regularly and she just wants to play with the little animals (which is ok by me!).  My 5.5 yr old son (who is a bit sensory in the ways that your dd2 seems to be) gets a lot of math and does a lot with addition and subtraction of more-than-10 numbers.  He doesn't so much get the patterns either, although he will do it successfully if I stay with him through the exercise .  Maybe it is a little early developmentally for your dd to be ready for this?  If your first dd was doing patterns at 4, maybe she was a bit of a prodigy!

Have you tried beading with your dd2? What happens if you give her some wire and a dish of different colors/types of beads?  I have noticed that preschoolers in my life love to bead and that they evolve from putting beads on at random into making patterns with the beads at a certain point. I think this point is definitely usually older than 4 - maybe more like 6-7?   Ime, I think it is more the younger school-aged children who are into the rules/repetition and start making the repetitive patterns with the different colors/types that look "nice" and feel more "right" than the random stringing that preschoolers seem to do?  

I hope the wedding goes well for your family and your cousin!

ETA  : I just went rummaging through the provincial school curriculum standards here and confirmed  my memory that kindergarteners (age 5) are expected to be able to recognize patterns, not necessarily to continue or create them.  Being able to continue, describe, reproduce, and create simple repeating patterns is grade one work, which children are not expected to have mastered till the *end* of grade 1, so for 6-7 year olds, here,  if that is any comfort!  How does your dd2 do with sorting exercises and recognizing inequalities in quantity?    

ETA again - what about patterns of sound, musical games, musical instruments, clapping rhythms? Or patterns in time - routines, narratives, telling stories, remembering what comes next? Patterns that do not occupy space at all?

Edited by Aubergine68 - 10/8/11 at 2:11pm

[wombatclay]

Originally Posted by Aubergine68 

ETA  : I just went rummaging through the provincial school curriculum standards here and confirmed  my memory that kindergarteners (age 5) are expected to be able to recognize patterns, not necessarily to create them.  Being able to continue, describe, reproduce, and create simple repeating patterns is grade one work, which children are not expected to have mastered till the *end* of grade 1, so for 6-7 year olds, here,  if that is any comfort!  How does your dd2 do with sorting exercises and recognizing inequalities in quantity?    

Hmmm... I don't know.  I only noticed the pattern thing since dd2 wants to "do school" with dd1 and I happened to have a preschool pattern workbook on the shelf.  We homeschool and dd2 is only 4 so this isn't a "worry-worry" so to speak (more of a "huh, that's odd, wonder what it means") but simple pattern recognition/creation is considered pre-kindergarten work and more involved pattern recognition/creation is part of the kindergarten skills list according to the NYS math core standards:

Patterns, Relations and Functions

PreKindergarten.A.1

Duplicate simple patterns using concrete objects

Kindergarten.A.1	Use a variety of manipulatives to create patterns using attributes of color, size, or shape
Kindergarten.A.2	Recognize, describe, extend, and create patterns that repeat (e.g., ABABAB or ABAABAAAB)

Though it looks to me like they may have a typo there!  LOL  gotta love official typos...

DD2 was diagnosed with SPD and severe anxiety when she was 1yo and had therapy for two years through early intervention (which made a HUGE difference).  When she aged out we thought we could go it alone but we've changed our minds... her recent doctor eval confirmed our thought that she'd lost ground in terms of both small and large motor skills.  And she has developed some quirks that are worrisome (like excessive hand washing, chewing on inappropriate items, and wanting to change her clothes at the least hint of "dirt" on them).  I do try to stay on top of her sensory diet, and social stimulation is one of the big reasons I'm so committed to getting/keeping her in these afterschool and preschool programs.  But it hasn't been enough, or it's not consistant enough, or something... so, well, yeah.  I try not to "worry" about every little quirk, but I also feel like I need to keep track of things like this in case it's an important detail in terms of getting the right diagnosis and the right help.

Plus, it was so totally bizarre.  She could /tell/ me the pattern but could not, for the life of her, pick the next shape in the sequence.  My extended family has a lot of "odd" built in and I don't want my kiddos going through the same sort of pain my older relatives did in terms of not being able to process things "traditionally" (my mom can't "see" numbers easily for example, she is fine with written numbers like "three" and fine with single numbers like "3" but show her a number like "4523" or mix numbers with words like on a menu and she is lost.  She spent years being told she was stupid when really it's just a funky processing disorder that could have been dealt with if someone had a little creativity.  It took her nearly 40 years to figure out how to "do" math, if she goes to a new restaurant she has someone read the menu to her and when she went back to school she "translated" her math problems into a written format).  Hmmm... it's odd, but dd2 is really good with the abacus and at it's heart, that's all about pattern recognition.  So why does the abacus make sense when making a square on the pegboard doesn't?  Must ponder!

fun- I'm watching Miyazaki movies and TrueBlood dvds... so far I've watched Totoro, Ponyo, Kiki's Delivery Service, Spirited Away, Howl's Moving Castle. Castle in the Sky, Nausicaa and all three seasons of TrueBlood.  Now I'm watching the commentaries.  LOL  I've bascially spent the day sitting on the couch nursing Tiel and keeping my feet up.  Not too shabby!  Though I kind of wish all the family were home.  I realized that although dh moved dd3's car seat into the car here in the drie, he didn't leave the car keys... so I'm stuck!

[Aubergine68]

What is the kindergarten cut-off in NY?  Here, children have to be 5 by March 1 of the following year to start kindergarten in Sept - it is one of the youngest cutoffs that I've ever heard of, and k covers some of what other divisions might consider pre-k.  So we usually have 4.5 to 5.5 year olds at the start of k and 5.5 to 6.5 year olds starting grade 1.  If children are starting k in NY at the age of 5-6, then the standards don't line up to be that different... I can totally understand your concerns with the family background and your dd2's history.  I do hope though, that this is just one of those things that a few months of development will bring her to the readiness for, rather than something that will be an ongoing concern.  

Can she copy a sequence but not extend it?  Like, if you line up an abababa sequence with big and little blocks or something, can she match it below your sequence?  How is she with sequences of physical objects off the workbook

page? 

(-- editing because it was important for me to type all that out but I don't think my family needs it to be out there on the interwebs!--)

Happy Canadian Thanksgiving!  I will actually be home with a sick child while the rest of the family goes out for dinner, but I'm thankful he is on the mend - and thankful for the time to do homework!

Edited by Aubergine68 - 10/9/11 at 12:07pm

[DaughterOfKali]

Thank you for all the support.

I was reminded today of just why I'm having this surgery.  I got my period today.  Again.  Yep, a 17 day cycle.  Even though I'm on progesterone.  I was wondering why my back hurt so much the last couple of days.  Now I know.  17 days!  That means, my last period started 17 days ago and lasted 7 days.  So yeah, I've only gone 10 days without bleeding.  My poor, confused uterus.

[revolting]

Originally Posted by wombatclay 

Hmmmm... wonder if knitting would help?  I'm planning on teaching the girls to drop spin and knit this winter and knitting is a pretty "patterned" activity.

I want to learn to drop spin! When I was like 16 or 17, I made one out of CDs and something else, but I was vegan at the time, and not using wool made learning really difficult. Are you teaching your four year old, too? My four year old has been asking to learn to knit. She already finger knits. I have to say, I don't knit a ton, but I recently made a scarf (okay, maybe making might be a better description; the knitting is done, but I need to find a crochet hood to put on the fringe....) and now she wants to learn how to "knit with sticks." I thought she might be too young, but now I'm thinking about it...

Okay, time to work on pressing some more leaves!

[wombatclay]

Can she copy a sequence but not extend it?  Like, if you line up an abababa sequence with big and little blocks or something, can she match it below your sequence?  How is she with sequences of physical objects off the workbook page? 

No she can't... that was when I really started paying attention.  She can look at the blocks and say "red blue red blue", but given a handful of red and blue tiles she can't replicate the pattern, even with the "original" sitting right there in front of her.  And it seems to be universal... she has the same disconnect regardless of whether it's the peg board, manipulatives, a workbook picture.  But she can and does use the abacus to solve addition/subtraction problems along with dd1.

NYS doesn't "require" kindergarten, but the age ranges are usually 3-4yo preK and 4-5yo K.  School enrollment of some sort (public, private, home) is required if the child turns 6 on/before December of that year.  So first graders are usually 6-7yo.  Ro is 4yo so the standards would expect her to have some basic pattern skills now with more developed pattern skills by the end of the year... like I said, it's not so much an academic worry as a "huh", since she'll be looking right at the original, TELL me what the pattern is, and then be totally at sea in terms of making that pattern herself (though if you tell her "now put down the red square, now put down the blue star, etc" she can so it's not a color/shape thing). 

Revolting- There is a nice dvd called "The Art of Knitting 4 Kids" that teaches even really little kiddos how to knit.  And the book Kids Knitting by Melanie Falick is nice too.  Though YouTube rocks, and there are these little "flip books" (where you flip the pages quickly and the images "move"... I have the how to purl one and it's genius!  Just a close up of the needles as a person does a purl stitch) that are amazing.  DD1's waldorf school started finger knitting with the 2-3yo, then started the kiddos preparing to knit when they were around 5... they gathered wool, spun it, made their knitting needles, and all that.  Then they started knitting as their "math work".  So I've seen plenty of 5yos knitting.  That said, I've never taught a 5yo to spin or knit sooooooo.... it's an adventure!  My mom taught me to weave on a floor loom when I was 5 though, and I learned to spin a few years later.  Knitting didn't happen till I was in grad school though and I can't crochette to save my life!  There are some wonderful drop spindles on etsy, but you can make one with a piece of dowel, a hook, and a big bead.