Never has a child been more determined to wean very early

[MegBoz]

DD’s weight gain was slow, but steady & sufficient until 4 mos, when she started sleeping long stretches at night & it dropped precipitously. Met with an LC, was told my latch was a bit shallow, discovered slight tongue tie, got it clipped along with a million other tactics.

She’s 7 mos now & doing fine weight-gain-wise & doing well eating solids too. But lately when I BF her side-lying, she backs up & absolutely refuses to latch deeply. She just latches to the nipple. I keep struggling & re-latching her, but to no avail. I finally realized I absolutely cannot BF her side-lying anymore. Awesome, now I have to drag my butt out of bed to sit in a chair with her on a Boppy.

Well, now I can’t even have one hand free to read a book. She was clawing at me so badly, & her little hands are strong, it HURTS when she squeezes my breast or chest (not to mention sometimes pulling my hair AND pulling the breast out of her mouth resulting in a shallow latch.) I know sometimes babies do this to help the let-down, but milk was flowing, I clearly heard & saw her swallowing & she kept pawing at me.

She's been doing this for months now, but it was horrible today.

Aside from the benefits to her health & mine, one of the biggest reasons I fought so hard to keep BFing going was the convenience. It is now LESS convenient that FF. I can’t even have ONE HAND FREE to read a book or feed myself. And her feedings are lengthy (over 20 min this AM & she was still drinking.)

I’ve tried wearing a sturdy necklace she could grab on to without breaking & that has helped.

Why am I still doing this?

[PatioGardener]

MegBoz, I just wanted to stop by and give you a virtual hug. You have been through the wringer with breastfeeding your little one. It's not fair - I keep hoping that things will improve for you.

[Megan73]

I'm in the same boat - I had a rough start to breastfeeding my eight-month-old and he's now kicking, pinching, flailing, grabbing books out of my hand and craning around to see if I'd dared try to watch TV during his marathon nursing sessions. I'm hoping it's teething (he's had three teeth in the last week!) and we'll be back to normal soon. I'm luckier than you - at least he'll nurse sidelying but he seems to want to feed ALL NIGHT LONG.
It's hard, but I remember this phase from DS1 and it does get batter. Let's both hang in there!

[foreverinbluejeans]

Your baby is just going through a phase. It is common for babies your age to not have good breastfeeding manners. They pinch, pull off, only want to nurse upside down, pull your hair, pull off, bite, you get the idea. They don't want to wean! They would die! In a world without formula a baby that would wean before age 1 would probably die.

I nursed 3 sons. There were a lot of times I didn't like nursing them as babies so much. Once I made it through the baby time and the bad manners time it got much better. This will pass. Nursing toddlers was my favorite stage and few mothers make it that far.

Even if you were feeding a bottle your baby could mess around and not cooperate. You would have formula stains and spit up. The baby may get constipated or get sick. An ear infection is horrible. A hospitalization is a nightmare, I've had babies hospitalized at a childrens hospital. You never know, your milk could prevent a major illness or delay allergies or asthma.

You are doing the right thing by nursing! Take it day by day,

[MegBoz]

Thanks, PatioGardener!

It’s not a phase- she’s been pawing at me for a couple months, it’s just a lot worse some days than others.

I think it’s time for me to begin walking away from BFing. I honestly SHOULD have done so 3 mos ago, it’s been absolutely agonizing.

The main reason I have left to hang on to it now (aside from her health & mine) is soothing her. I can keep that benefit if I just BF her a little in the evening & first thing in the morning. I can [grudgingly] accept having to get out of bed in the middle of the night & sit instead of side-lying. I’ll just put on a necklace too.

I’m going to stop pumping & just let her have formula during the day. My pumping output isn’t great & I have to pump every 2.5 hours or so to get a decent output.  Apparently I have abysmal “storage capacity” – I can only make enough milk (all day total) IF my breasts are drained very frequently, so I’ll just give up for daytimes. That’ll be a load off my shoulders & hopefully I’ll get my period back, and therefore some libido & be able to lose some weight (hormonal craziness has made my body hold onto extra fat.)

Makes me even more furious to read, “If you can BF for 6 weeks, you can BF for 6 mos.” SUCH A LIE!!!!!!!!
 

& all this guidance that babies should be BFing less and less and less frequently as they get older. Whatever – I guess I’m just a freak-of-nature then & the only woman on earth with this low-storage-capacity problem, huh? (again, I don’t make much milk if my breasts aren’t drained every 2 hours- 3 hours. DD sleeping 9+ hours consecutively at 3 mos old is what killed my supply.)

Oh, or my other favorite crunchy-BFing-dogma, “most women can make enough milk. Those with supply problems are victims of bad advice or birth interventions, etc.” Love that one! (& I guess all those women with OVER-supply problems are just “doing-something-wrong” as well, huh?)

[MegBoz]

Originally Posted by foreverinbluejeans 

You would have formula stains and spit up. The baby may get constipated or get sick. 

<snip>

You are doing the right thing by nursing! 

Re: stains - DD is a drooly baby & has been for many months so, no it's not just a teething thing. I need to have her in a bib constantly or she soaks her shirt. She has even soaked THROUGH bibs to still soak her shirt, and one time a shirt got destroyed because the dye from the bib came off (and it wasn't a new bib.) Starting about a month ago - even before she was having solids regularly, I noticed her bibs being extremely dingy & discolored.

She also spits up quite a good bit (got much better since about 3 mos, but still happens.)

Point being: I don't get to enjoy those benefit of BFing either.

Granted, it's likely she would spit up & stain her bibs even MORE on formula, but I'm just sayin', I don't get to enjoy those supposed BFing benefits.

As for "doing the right thing" - I can't even begin to tell you the agony & horror of thinking I was STARVING my daughter by eBFing. She was small at birth & stayed small. I worried & worried & worried (my son gained 2 whole pounds eBF his first 2 weeks of life, DD only regained her birth weight - no gain above that at 2 weeks. I was mortified!) 

Pediatrician told me over & over to stop worrying. Strangers CONSTANTLY - and I mean CONSTANTLY still comment on how small she is, only pouring salt in my wound of worry.

After the 8 week checkup, I brought her in again to my pedi at 12 weeks ONLY because I was still worried about her size & she'd started sleeping longer & longer stretches. Pedi tells me for the millionth time to stop worrying AND let her sleep. She had maintained the 5% curve for weight & 25% for height. She had gained like .7 oz per day from 8-12 weeks. "Stop worrying, let her sleep," pedi says.

OK, I finally let go.

12 weeks of worry, I'm told for the millionth time to stop worrying, so I finally stop. I joke to my pedi that I'm going to lie to strangers when they ask how old she is so I won't have to hear the shock & be asked, "Oh, was she premie?" (yes, I was asked that & no, she wasn't.)

4 weeks of not worrying, then I take her back in at 4 mos & she's only gained .33 oz per day & has fallen off the curve.

DH & I freak out. He even says, "I'd hate to think she's not getting enough food at this time of crucial brain development." Oh the irony that I"m left worrying that I've done A BAD THING for her brain by eBFing. Oh the irony. & crazier yet - during this time when her rate of weight gain dropped precipitously, she was MORE content - she had colic from 3W - 3 mos, and from 3 mos on was getting a lot better. Still peeing & pooping all the time. The low weight gain was a total shock to me as well as what felt like a cosmic kick in the crotch after I finally let go of 12 weeks of worry.

But the man is 100% correct. Better 100% formula than eBF if baby is not getting enough breast milk & malnourished.

I went to extreme lengths to pick my supply back up (which dropped due to letting her sleep 9+ hours, sometimes 10-11 hours consecutively & me not pumping, because I didn't realize I had to! Pedi never told me to pump to keep up my supply during these long stretches of sleep & it never occurred to me!!!!!!)

But I will always have that worry & that guilt. The worry & the guilt that I left her to be malnourished, and I was too stupid & clueless to even REALIZE that she was malnourished! (It's one thing to have an inadequate milk supply, it's another thing entirely to not realize your baby may be starving, and therefore not do anything to get her more food. So I feel inadequate on so multiple levels.)

Point being: No, sometimes BFing is NOT the right thing to do. Just like a C-section is sometimes the right thing. Nature doesn't always work properly. And BFing can fail for reasons beyond the stereotypical "booby traps."

[MegBoz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by foreverinbluejeans 
 

Also - Sorry, should have written this in the first place, but I don't mean to lash out at you, I'm just lashing out in general, and wanted to respond to your comment with my views & my experiences. It's not fair & it's not right for me to take out my misery on someone, that's not what I wanted to do. I just wanted to 'vent.'

[tincia]

I think that if weaning during a portion of the day is going to make u feel better, and assure that your chold is well nourished, then so be it. Because while yes, bm is best, not enough of it, and tons of stress along with it, isn't good for anyone!
I have dealt with a lot of the issues you have talked about. I've had days where my self worth is based solely on how many ounces i can pump in a day and felt like an inadequate mother because of it. We have to learn to accept that our "best" can't always be perfect, and that it is okay. 've literally cried over how unfair it seems!
Ultimately u have to trust your instincts to know what is best for your child and yourself!

[PatioGardener]

How are things going,MegBoz?

[MegBoz]

Thanks for asking. I decided to pump only 2X in the 10 hours DD is gone from me 3 days per week. (as opposed to formerly 4X!) That way I'd still have milk to BF daytimes when I'm with her - particularly on the weekends when DH, DS & I are on-the-go so I won't have to bring bottles of formula.

& would you believe that I ended up getting about 8.5 oz in those 2 pumpings, whereas I normally got 9 oz in 3-4 pumpings?! It seems every time I'm ready to walk away, things get a little better. Crazy.

She still was AWFUL a few times (Backing away, pawing at me), but other BF sessions, she's been OK. The "mute button" appeal of BFing (GUARANTEED to soothe her!) is too good for me to give up, so I continue on. But I now consider myself practically the poster-child of "formerly crunchy, psycho-pro-BF, now practically BF-hater."

On the whole, I need to stay out of BF discussions. I really feel like the 'crunchy' community puts forth the message that if you try hard enough, BFing will always work. Like even reading LLL articles on low-supply, they mention "booby trap" after booby trap... (i.e. there's no mention of the possible existence of low supply IN THE ABSENCE of "booby traps." Such a thing is like sasquatch.... a myth... never known in reality.)

It's like the entire pro-BF movement chooses to marginalize & ignore the existence of my "kind" -- women who were very well educated & supported and STILL had a myriad of problems. 

& feeling marginalized makes me feel like dirt - like a freak & a failure.

Perhaps that is my own personal interpretation of all the reading I've done and others don't see it that way. But that's how I feel.

And I felt that way even before I had lots of problems.... i.e. if something is going wrong, you must be "DOING SOMETHING WRONG" (unless there is a physical issue, like with Mom having had breast reduction surgery, or baby having tongue-tie). I thought that even BEFORE these problems -- that BFing always works unless there is a "REASON" to point to like trying to 'schedule' a baby, poor latch, supplementing with formula, etc.

I feel compelled to offer solace to other women I now KNOW must be in my situation, but I know posts such as, "Don't beat yourself up though, sometimes it just doesn't work. It's not necessarily your fault." such posts would quite likely get me kicked off the boards. But that is my top piece of advice to driven, stubborn, Type A ladies such as myself** - Be ready to quit. Be prepared to walk away. It is NOT worth making yourself crazy.

**Side note - I do suspect (although i don't know) that a lot of American women do NOT try hard enough - it's not viewed as very important in our culture, and therefore not worth FIGHTING FOR... so I wouldn't give that piece of advice out in general, only to other stubborn, Type As.

[CI Mama]

Originally Posted by MegBoz 

It's like the entire pro-BF movement chooses to marginalize & ignore the existence of my "kind" -- women who were very well educated & supported and STILL had a myriad of problems. 

& feeling marginalized makes me feel like dirt - like a freak & a failure.

This is how the natural birth movement felt to me as a mom who tried very hard for a natural birth and had a c-section. But I've come a long way in my own healing process, thank goodness, and I don't feel that way anymore.

I'm sorry you are having such a hard time with breastfeeding. Some women love it, but if you're not one of them, I agree that it's not worth continuing. There are so many difficult things about parenting, and then many of us hold these ideals in our heads about how it's supposed to be, and when it's not, we just beat ourselves up. And what good does that do for us, our children, or the world?

My wish for you is to be gentle with yourself. You are doing the best that you can. Let it be enough.

[Megan73]

Originally Posted by MegBoz 

Thanks for asking. I decided to pump only 2X in the 10 hours DD is gone from me 3 days per week. (as opposed to formerly 4X!) That way I'd still have milk to BF daytimes when I'm with her - particularly on the weekends when DH, DS & I are on-the-go so I won't have to bring bottles of formula.

& would you believe that I ended up getting about 8.5 oz in those 2 pumpings, whereas I normally got 9 oz in 3-4 pumpings?! It seems every time I'm ready to walk away, things get a little better. Crazy.

She still was AWFUL a few times (Backing away, pawing at me), but other BF sessions, she's been OK. The "mute button" appeal of BFing (GUARANTEED to soothe her!) is too good for me to give up, so I continue on. But I now consider myself practically the poster-child of "formerly crunchy, psycho-pro-BF, now practically BF-hater."

On the whole, I need to stay out of BF discussions. I really feel like the 'crunchy' community puts forth the message that if you try hard enough, BFing will always work. Like even reading LLL articles on low-supply, they mention "booby trap" after booby trap... (i.e. there's no mention of the possible existence of low supply IN THE ABSENCE of "booby traps." Such a thing is like sasquatch.... a myth... never known in reality.)

It's like the entire pro-BF movement chooses to marginalize & ignore the existence of my "kind" -- women who were very well educated & supported and STILL had a myriad of problems. 

& feeling marginalized makes me feel like dirt - like a freak & a failure.

Perhaps that is my own personal interpretation of all the reading I've done and others don't see it that way. But that's how I feel.

And I felt that way even before I had lots of problems.... i.e. if something is going wrong, you must be "DOING SOMETHING WRONG" (unless there is a physical issue, like with Mom having had breast reduction surgery, or baby having tongue-tie). I thought that even BEFORE these problems -- that BFing always works unless there is a "REASON" to point to like trying to 'schedule' a baby, poor latch, supplementing with formula, etc.

I feel compelled to offer solace to other women I now KNOW must be in my situation, but I know posts such as, "Don't beat yourself up though, sometimes it just doesn't work. It's not necessarily your fault." such posts would quite likely get me kicked off the boards. But that is my top piece of advice to driven, stubborn, Type A ladies such as myself** - Be ready to quit. Be prepared to walk away. It is NOT worth making yourself crazy.

**Side note - I do suspect (although i don't know) that a lot of American women do NOT try hard enough - it's not viewed as very important in our culture, and therefore not worth FIGHTING FOR... so I wouldn't give that piece of advice out in general, only to other stubborn, Type As.

I totally agree that there is little awareness that sometimes breastfeeding just doesn't work the way we hope or expect it will. Just the other day I responded to a mom's post that my experience breastfeeding my first son (domperidone, pumping and more pumping, supplementing at the breast) taught me (Type A that I am!) that sometimes I just have to accept what is and move on in order to preserve my sanity. But that didn't mean quitting or walking away, which I suspect would have left me with lasting grief and sadness. Instead, I had to redefine what success meant for me. That meant quitting pumping because the extra few drops of milk were not worth making myself crazy and focussing on feeding my baby - even if it meant that some of what he got was formula in a Lact-Aid. I was prepared to do the same thing with DS2 but I've been blessed to be able to EBF after a rocky first month or so.
I think we need to think about breastfeeding not as a delivery mechanism to get BM into baby's tummy but as a relationship - which may well have challenges and compromises - not a success or a failure.
And yeah, privately I think many women just don't try hard enough. But I try to temper that judgement with the awareness that it can be so, so hard and I had every possible advantage - money for gear and LCs, a supportive family and, most of all, TIME thanks to a year's maternity leave.

[erigeron]

FWIW, I am not in the camp that breastfeeding is always the right thing. There are pros and cons to breastfeeding, and pros and cons to formula feeding, and some of those pros and cons are different for different people. Everyone has to make their own decision of what is best or the right thing for them. This board is here for moms who've decided on breastfeeding to help each other with making breastfeeding work, and it's great to be able to get advice from each other, but if a mom/baby pair reaches the point that breastfeeding is no longer the right thing for them, and they've tried to fix the problem to no avail... well, that is life.

I don't know what you have tried in the way of night feeding, but this is what I do. I have a bolster pillow (some sites call them a husband pillow) that is always at the head of the bed, and my daughter sleeps in a sidecarred crib. So when she is hungry, I scoot up so that I am propped up on the bolster pillow, reach right over and pick her up, and I nurse her sitting there, then put her back in the crib when she is done and scoot back down to sleep. It's more of a hassle than side-lying (we never really got the hang of it, and our bed is small), but less of a hassle than having to get up and sit in a chair.

[jenrose]

I loved nursing my first. And I'm a huge advocate for breastfeeding.

Nursing my second was a nightmare. We kept at it. We kept at it a long time. But had I not been successful with my first, I would have though my body was failing me yet again.

It took her a month to regain her birthweight, and that was with me pumping and supplementing pumped milk because her latch was... well, she'd "latch" but she had no suck. The only reason she didn't do worse in her first week was that my milk came in fine and she did okay on the "spillover".

I had visions of lazy nursing in bed... but ended up with every feed being weigh, nurse, weigh, pump the amount to get to our per-feed goal, feed with bottle (which she also sucked at. Well, no, she didn't suck, that was the problem.) I didn't sleep for months, or if I did, I felt guilty because sleeping often meant missing a feed, and she never, ever asked to nurse.

When she stopped being able to take bottles due to gagging issues, I had to do every single feed by manually expressing into her mouth while hanging my boob over her while she lay on the bed next to me. Did I mention I had excruciating bone pain in my pelvis and sitting hurt?

The doctor said, "Supplement formula if you can't get enough breastmilk." That wasn't an option for me, my gut just said no. Turns out my little girl doesn't tolerate citrates. There are citrates in every brand of formula on the market. The one bottle we ever tried, she vomited. 

At five or six months, she started sucking...but she also started clamping down on the nipple. Biting became an every-feed issue, and remained an issue for the next two years. When I weaned her, it was because she'd drawn blood and I couldn't stand it anymore. I had reached a limit where my force of will that kept me from bodily flinging her across the room when she bit or clawed my breast was fracturing, and to keep her safe, we had to wean.

I never, not once after we found out she wasn't gaining, enjoyed nursing her. But I would have hated the tube feeds we'd have had to have done more, so I continued. I don't respond well to pumps, we weighed at each feed so I wouldn't have to pump more than an ounce each time. 

I was in some ways blessed in that I learned about breastfeeding from my mother. Mom was given such lousy help with nursing. We had our lips tucked the whole time, and when she told her sister it hurt, her sister said, "Oh, I think it's supposed to hurt." But Mom threw out the doctor's "manual" that gave horrific advice like sterilizing the nipples with alcohol at every feed, and limiting feeds to every 4 hours, and nursed us for 7 - 8 months, at which point she quit because she couldn't stand the looky-loo pulling off the breast distractability that is characteristic of 7 month olds.

I asked her, as she pumped for my sister, "Do you like breastfeeding?"

She said, "No, but I don't do it for me, I do it because it's better for her."

And it is. Don't buy into the myth that weight gain for weight gain's sake alone is the be-all. Some kids are small, and stay small, and they tend to compensate by prioritizing head development. I'd rather see a baby gaining 1/4 ounce per day on breastmilk alone than an ounce per day on formula if they're otherwise healthy and active, because I know that the nutrients in the breastmilk are more "to the point" for the needed growth and development of the brain. My niece was 4 pounds 4 ounces at birth, at term. She's still a tiny little thing, never grew particularly fast, but my god that kid is brilliant. The important thing is that they DO grow, that they have enough energy, that they're awake and alert when they should be awake and alert, not so much x amount of gain per day. 

Shiny, on breastmilk alone for her first 6 months, never on formula, is doing far, far better than most of the kids with her exact chromosome problem. The case reports I looked at when she was small agreed... "Kids with this syndrome have profound language issues, some never develop meaningful language at all."

My kid? She doesn't just have language (with delays, but language).... she sings. Beatles songs. She's still special needs. She'll probably never be independent, but I know that she's probably a lot better off than she would have been on formula. 

It's okay to set limits about what you're okay with doing with breastfeeding. It's okay to not like it. It's okay to limit it to what you can stand to do. But please don't think that it was a mistake, that you somehow harmed your daughter by doing it. 

[greenmulberry]

Originally Posted by MegBoz 

On the whole, I need to stay out of BF discussions. I really feel like the 'crunchy' community puts forth the message that if you try hard enough, BFing will always work. Like even reading LLL articles on low-supply, they mention "booby trap" after booby trap... (i.e. there's no mention of the possible existence of low supply IN THE ABSENCE of "booby traps." Such a thing is like sasquatch.... a myth... never known in reality.)

It's like the entire pro-BF movement chooses to marginalize & ignore the existence of my "kind" -- women who were very well educated & supported and STILL had a myriad of problems. 

& feeling marginalized makes me feel like dirt - like a freak & a failure.

As someone who did EVERYTHING "right" in preparation for a natural birth, and ended up with a c section, I know just how you feel.

If you need to stop, just stop. It's OK to feed formula.

& would you believe that I ended up getting about 8.5 oz in those 2 pumpings, whereas I normally got 9 oz in 3-4 pumpings?! It seems every time I'm ready to walk away, things get a little better. Crazy.

I will tell you this is my experience too. I get the same amount pumping twice a day at work that I got from pumping 4 times a day. I have to pump at the same exact times though, if I need to pump early because I am going to miss my 11:30 pump, I have to add a 3rd session.

[Mosaic]

Personally, I find this thread refreshing. I'm also struggling with my little one after 18months of struggling, feeding therapy, discomfort, annoyance, frustration, etc. I love MDC because it's NOT mainstream, and women here won't tell me to throw in the towel on day 3 because my milk hasn't come in or on month 5 when baby decides she needs to look ALL AROUND THE ROOM while latched and it's annoying as heck. Yes, I want women who will encourage me and maybe outright push me sometimes.

But I do think that sometimes this passion crowds out some of our perspective. It comes up time and time again that people feel "not good enough", "not crunchy enough", etc. Mothers have enough guilt to deal with: I say we let this guilt go.

[MegBoz]

Originally Posted by jenrose 

It's okay to set limits about what you're okay with doing with breastfeeding. It's okay to not like it. It's okay to limit it to what you can stand to do. But please don't think that it was a mistake, that you somehow harmed your daughter by doing it. 

Thanks, I appreciate that. But I do still feel that way.

I think we can all agree that an insufficient quantity of BM is worse than an adequate amount of formula. & My DD was definitely not getting enough from 3-4 mos when she started sleeping 8-10 hour stretches (& I listened to my stupid pedi who said, "She's fine, she's growing, let her sleep.") So I do worry about the effect of that.

But worse yet, she was actually MORE happy during that time from 3-4 mos than she had been before (she had colic & it started getting better then.) Plus she pooped a LOT & peed a lot too - so I had NO SIGNS that she wasn't getting enough. Talk about reinforcing paranoia! I will always continue to worry, I think.

Originally Posted by greenmulberry 

As someone who did EVERYTHING "right" in preparation for a natural birth, and ended up with a c section, I know just how you feel.

Thanks for that. I'm glad others relate to me.

However, I will say, that with regards to natural birth, even Ina May Gaskin herself has a 3% (or so) C-section rate. I know that, no matter what - with the best, most supportive care & the healthiest mama, things just go wrong sometimes. I said that when I planned my own HB. Having had a fast, manageable, natural birth with my DS, my first, I thought there was a 90% chance I'd have a manageable, even faster 2nd birth. But there was also a 3% chance things would go wrong enough I might need a CS, then there was a 7% in-between where I might have a long & difficult labor - which is often due to a posterior babe. (EXACTLY what happened, but she made it out naturally in the end.)

My point is - it is not always being induced, having pitocin, having placenta previa - that causes a problem or a need for a CS -- there isn't always something DONE to a woman, or some pre-existing condition that you can be aware of to "POINT TO." Sometimes things go wrong in a birth & there isn't a clear reason WHY. Heck, sometimes a baby even dies & there still isn't a clear reason why (I remember reading about that in the midwife memoir, "Labor of Love.")

But I still feel like with BFing, no one seems to acknowledge that, "Sometimes it just doesn't work & there isn't a clear reason why," & that is making me bonkers. Heck, just the other week here, on another thread, someone parroted the myth that, "Women rarely have a problem with supply if they BF on demand." I asked for data & she quoted a study that had FIVE PERCENT of women with unexplained low supply. (10% had low supply problems that were clearly attributed to a cause.) Excuse me, but FIVE PERCENT IS NOT INSIGNIFICANT! A 5% chance is not that low, so to keep parroting the lines that low-supply never happens unless you are DOING-SOMETHING-WRONG is a lousy thing to do to those of us who fall in that 5%. We end up beating ourselves up thinking it is our fault.

Originally Posted by Mosaic 

 I say we let this guilt go.

Thanks, yes, you're right.

[CI Mama]

Originally Posted by greenmulberry 
I will tell you this is my experience too. I get the same amount pumping twice a day at work that I got from pumping 4 times a day. I have to pump at the same exact times though, if I need to pump early because I am going to miss my 11:30 pump, I have to add a 3rd session.

My experience, too! I started out pumping 3x daily at work. And then through random chance I one day discovered that I could pump only twice and get essentially the same amount. That's not how it's "supposed" to work, but that's how it played out for me!

Originally Posted by MegBoz 

My point is - it is not always being induced, having pitocin, having placenta previa - that causes a problem or a need for a CS -- there isn't always something DONE to a woman, or some pre-existing condition that you can be aware of to "POINT TO." Sometimes things go wrong in a birth & there isn't a clear reason WHY. Heck, sometimes a baby even dies & there still isn't a clear reason why (I remember reading about that in the midwife memoir, "Labor of Love.")

Thank you for saying this. It's a view that I don't hear often on MDC.

For some reason, this community sometimes projects an attitude of "if we talk about difficulties & imperfection of the 'natural' path, we'll discourage new moms from even trying natural birth/breastfeeding/co-sleeping/you name it, therefore let's only talk about the great experiences and make it seem like the not-so-great experiences are all individual x's fault." I actually feel like that has been improving around here...or maybe I'm just not as sensitive to it as I was when I first joined MDC. But I feel like more moms are be more vocal with more realistic views of natural parenting. Yes, it's great, and it's the best thing in the world when it goes without a hitch. But. There's a lot of variation in human experience. Not everyone is going to have the same results or need the same kind of support.

I have been surprised at how hard it is to find support as a mom experiencing some difficulties along the way. That's why it's been so helpful to connect with other BTDT moms, and why I try to reach out now that some of my biggest challenges are behind me. If someone hasn't walked the path I've walked, she's likely to either deny my experience (by not wanting to hear it or by minimizing the difficulty) or be full of suggestions that just may not be helpful (sometimes, I don't want to hear 57 things that I should/could try...if I'm at the end of my rope, I want empathy).

It SUCKS to feel like you're alone in a struggle. So keep reaching out! You will find others who have been down the same path. Some may even have inspiration or insight that will help lighten your load. Hang in there, mama.

[journeymom]

Oh my goodness you are beating yourself up so badly.  You call yourself stupid, clueless, freak, failure. My dear, you cannot talk about yourself that way.  For one thing, you don't want to find yourself applying those unreasonably high expectations to your daughter (or your husband for that matter).  Yes, the literature misled you.  You've learned in a graphic way that Life does not care what Ina May Gaskin and Dr Sears and LLL and kellymom say.

**Side note - I do suspect (although i don't know) that a lot of American women do NOT try hard enough - it's not viewed as very important in our culture, and therefore not worth FIGHTING FOR... so I wouldn't give that piece of advice out in general, only to other stubborn, Type As.

So say a Type A mama doesn't try hard enough.  So what?? 

 You never know, your milk could prevent a major illness or delay allergies or asthma.

Yes, this is where the literature and science let me down.  My eldest was introduced to solid foods when she was 3 m.o.   I stopped nursing her at 5 months and started her on formula. She does not get seasonal allergies.  My youngest, on the other hand, who I exclusively breastfed until he was 7 months, and nursed till he was 17 months, simply has the worst seasonal allergies and asthma I've ever witnessed.  It's genetic, he gets it from his dad. What the heck! 

MegBoz, is your dd eating any solid foods?  Sorry if you mentioned that bit of information and I missed it. 

[MegBoz]

Originally Posted by journeymom 

 My dear, you cannot talk about yourself that way.  For one thing, you don't want to find yourself applying those unreasonably high expectations to your daughter (or your husband for that matter).  

LOL ..... You give me ANOTHER thing to worry about, & feel guilty about (i.e. "Am I doing that now?") Gee, thanks!

I didn't say I think I AM all those negative descriptions! I just FEEL that way sometimes - which I think is a totally normal part of the human experience. It would be nice if I had constant, unfaltering confidence in my competence in ALL things, but I think that's unrealistic. I think the important thing is that when you DO feel like an idiot & failure, you address it somehow. i.e. sometimes it means you are NOT good at XYZ thing, like my husband with dancing, so you don't do it. That's fine! Or sometimes it means you need more help, so get help. Sometimes it means your VIEW is wrong - i.e. my view is if I just try hard enough, BFing must work, [and if it doesn't work, it is my fault] but that's a big fat lie, so I'm realizing that & adjusting my view and therefore by changing that view, I come to learn that it is NOT my fault and therefore I should NOT feel stupid.

That was sorta rambling - but my point is that feeling like a stupid failure sometimes doesn't necessarily mean you think you are a stupid failure. The latter is awful, the former isn't necessarily a bad or unhealthy thing depending on how you react to that feeling.

Yes, DD is eating solids & enjoying them!

regarding stats - yeah, my DH & I were both FF from the get-go, same as our siblings & most of our generation & we're fine - no asthma or allergies. (Some for one of his 3 brothers, but that is it.)

Originally Posted by CI Mama 

Thank you for saying this. It's a view that I don't hear often on MDC.

For some reason, this community sometimes projects an attitude of "if we talk about difficulties & imperfection of the 'natural' path, we'll discourage new moms from even trying natural birth/breastfeeding/co-sleeping/you name it, therefore let's only talk about the great experiences and make it seem like the not-so-great experiences are all individual x's fault."

I can see how people can view it that way on MDC & other natural parenting resources. BUT - I had a conversation with a friend about this once. She was saying that birth junkies, especially UCers (unassisted) are wacky & think if they "believe" nothing will go wrong. I told her I disagree - some UCers even get their hands on pitocin in case of hemmoraghe. & Those of us doing HB hire a MW because we want her there with medical equipment & expertise. So there you go... the very fact of hiring a MW who brings pit & oxygen & such, IMO, is PROOF of the fact that we don't think "if i believe, nothing will go wrong." We admit & acknowledge that it does sometimes "go wrong' (whether it's something serious like PPH, fetal distress, or in-between (i.e. not good, but necessarily dangerous) like in my case of posterior baby, stuck at 9.5 cm for many hours, cervix swelling, etc.)

But I still feel like with BFing, "IT HAS TO WORK [if you do it right]," is the message I get.
I have some specific examples of things I was expressly told (from MULTIPLE sources) that are total myths. Starting a new thread on them.