8 week old tongue tied, severely low supply, tried just about everything...need help.

[veggiemomto2]

I'm not even sure where to start!

I have successfully and exclusively nursed two other children until they were 3.5. Had some minor supply issues, used fenugreek with the first, domperidone with the second and though they grew a little slow before supplements (but still NORMAL GROWTH), they thrived after I started taking them.

This time around I was prepared to get my supply up right away! Had fenugreek, goats rue, and domperidone all ready to go right after birth! He was 9.5 at birth, went down to 9 lbs after, then 9.3 at one week check. Then...sore nipples. Sore nipples that were bleeding and just continued to cause horrid pain. I just figured it was because he was nursing non-stop which was common for my other babies. He was having good pees and poops but his poop was green and mucousy at times.

One month check up - 9.11. Shocked. I spent the entire time bawling! He was bright eyed, meeting milestones, appeared to be thriving, but obviously he didn't gain much of anything. Ped was fine with giving it another week and then she said she would do blood tests since she (and I) felt it couldn't be supply! How could it? He was peeing and pooping fine! But we were wrong, because it's obviously he wasn't getting enough to eat.

Then I remembered, the first LC I saw mentioned that he was "slightly tongue-tied". So I called a tongue tie expert (Alison Hazelbaker) and have been seeing her ever since. Finn has had a frenectomy (top and bottom) and as of yesterday, his suck is apparently great. It was horrible before - he was just not removing milk from the breast.

We have been using a finger feeder and SNS. I cannot pump hardly anything. Really. I have tried pumping for 45 minutes. I have tried pumping every hour. I pump whenever I can. I rejoice if I get a measly ounce. My best bet is middle of the night when I can get 2 ounces. I am using the symphony. I am devastated that he's getting any formula at all, but he has to eat. He is getting a mixture of formula and breastmilk in the SNS - usually a total of 8 ounces per day, 4-6 ounces of formula. So he's getting at least 2/3 of his calories directly FROM THE BREAST. At least I have that! I am weighing him every day. He's gained 21 ounces in 21 days, but not without sweat, tears, non stop nursing, basically neglecting my two other children. Weighing everyday is sending me in to panic attacks - it's awful to see him go down an ounce! Thankfully someone is donating milk to me and now I can switch that little bit of formula over to mama's milk! But I want him back to the breast 100%. I want him happy and satisfied.

IBCLC agrees that now that suck is good, something else is going on. I have had supply issues in the past, but always successfully nursed them. I am on every galactalogue and still not enough milk.

I am going to get my thyroid tested as both my mom and sister have no thyroid function at all without meds, but besides that, does anyone have ANY OTHER IDEAS? Anything? I am on the max dose of domperidone (160) plus every other herb known to increase supply or even suspected of it - motherlove stuff, fenugreek, marshmallow, blessed thistle, dandelion, oatmeal, mothers milk, alfalfa, shatavari, goats rue and maybe other things I"m forgetting. These things would have had me overflowing before. I cannot figure this out! I'm sort of losing my sanity. I need to be able to leave the house. I need to get out of here and do things. I am glued here until we figure this thing out.

Help!

[Megan73]

Wow. I've been there!
First, I'd suggest the book "A Nursing Mother's Guide to Making More Milk" if you don't already have it. It sounds like maybe the combination of tongue tie and the lowish supply you had with your other babies hurt your supply early and it's hard to rebound from that. It may happen, though!
Second, I'd say you're doing everything humanly possible and to be gentle with yourself.
With pumping/dom/supplementing at the breast I've been able to transition to EBF with DS2. But with my first son, I just couldn't get him to gain without eight ounces of formula a day in a Lact-Aid (fabulous product, BTW). I didn't have other kids to care for but I think he was four or five months old when I decided that for my own sanity - I wanted to actually leave the house - that I had to make peace with that and wean off the pump. He nursed well into toddlerhood with the LA and I'm able to look back on our nursing relationship and feel OK about it. I almost cried a few weeks ago when he nursed his baby doll while I fed his little brother.
(As an aside, both my sons had TT - DS1 was clipped at three weeks, DS2 at one day old which I think made a major difference).
I'm not expressing this well - and I'm not telling you to give up, your babe is only eight weeks old - I just learned from my experience with my first babe that there was a limit to how long I could keep up the punishing pace at the expense of having a life and that, sometimes, it just is what it is and I have to accept it.
Hang in there, mama. I know how tough it is.

[nyakanyasko]

Wow! You are working so hard and sound like you have an encyclopedic knowledge of how to increase supply!! My only thought is maybe adding some hand expression to your pumping sessions http://newborns.stanford.edu/Breastfeeding/MaxProduction.html and some breast compressions when you nurse? Good luck! You are an amazing mom!

[veggiemomto2]

Thank you both!

Yep, have the book. Bought it while I was pregnant - I was prepared! Just not for tongue tie. I wish I would have known sooner. And I never ever realized tongue tie could cause the horrid suck issues it did with him. The first LC never even mentioned that, she just mentioned the soreness of my nipples.

I have been hand expressing after pumping and also using compressions during pumping and nursing. Such a frustrating place to be in when your baby is so fussy at the breast. He is never fully satisfied except at morning and in the night. I hate it.

I think I am just so darn stubborn that I want to keep on going on. But you are right - at what point is it just too much to handle? I highly doubt I can handle sitting on this couch another 4 months. And I don't want to start him on solids earlier (4-5 months) just because he's hungry. I truly hope we can turn this thing around. I just keep waiting for something magical to happen and all of a sudden BAM! My supply is back! I should probably pump more. I quit dry pumping because it was freaking frustrating as heck.

[rebecca_n]

that sounds like my son only mine was even slower to gain. he got his tongue tie clipped at 1 week and had some formula until 4 months and is still nursing at almost 3. i would stop weighing him everyday and do once a week since weight fluctuates and daily will change so much with pee/poop/eating ect. looking back i really dont think he needed to be supplemented so much but lactation consultants/peds scared me. I would say let him nurse as much as he wants and supplement as needed (by how he acts/still hungry imo) go by if he seems happy and alert/meeting milestones and try to relax (i know i know like that will happen!) but some kids are slow gainers. no that i have my dd i know my kids grow slow and don't poop as much as average :shrug: also pumping isn't the same as nursing and maybe your body just doesnt respond well to it-- not trying to be annoying i just wish i had spent more time enjoying my lil one instead of freaking  out over pumping ect which was exhausting and didn't seem to help. i hope you don't mind me replying and i think its awesome you're so determined to do right by your lil one pm me if you want to talk and good luck with everything. and for boosters i like more milk plus special blend, helps me alot

[homemademom]

I have SO been there!  I would recommend having his palate evaluated. TT babies often have "bubble palate," a high arched palate. The nipple gets smushed into the void up there and so milk doesn't come out and supply doesn't increase. My ds had CST for several weeks and finally had "normal" palate by 12 wks old.  I think that was partly due to CST and partly due to his head and mouth growing and those palate bones dropping down.  

Even after he was "normal," I still had to supp with 6 or so ounces of formula. No amount of pumping would bring it up; I guess I just don't respond well to the pump.  When he was six mths old, I went back for a second tongue tie revision (the first was at 1 mth old) and finally, it all came together. He could nurse properly, my supply came all the way back up and we are good.  

HTH. Good luck with everything. It sounds like you're doing a great job!

[lovemy2boyz]

Wow! It sounds like you just told my story....TT that no one would treat and we had to fight to get clipped at 7 weeks. Bottle feeding and pumping since he gagged and cried at the breast. Now I'm EPing since he has rejected me all together. The process drove me straight into PPD. Now with EPing, he is gaining weight and doing well. 100% mama's milk thanks to domperidone and lots of pump time. Hang in there and know that you are a great mommy for wanting what's best for your baby.