Support for parents of gifted children - Page 7

[bec]

Originally Posted by eilonwy

At any rate, Eli is collecting new words again with marvelous speed. It's kind of freaky to watch him, because he seems to sieze on them. For example, I was discussing something with my mother on the phone and the word "guilty" came up (no, I don't remember what). Eli popped off of my breast and said "guilty? guilty!" So I told him what it meant (meanwhile my mom is giggling on the phone saying "Tell him to say "culpable" ) and he went back to nursing. Later that evening, on the Simpsons, Bart was being tried for something and was found guilty; Eli got very excited and started laughing. "Guilty!!" :LOL

I just had to laugh at this. Katie and I were outside in the early evening. I was trying to convince her to go to sleep. She asked where the birds were. I told her they had all gone to bed. The only things that were awake were owls and bats. She knows about owls, but the idea of bats kind of scared her. So I told her that bats were cool, how they flew around at night, hung upside down, and used echo location to find their way around. She looked up and said, "Echo location?" Fast forward to the next day and we are across the street playing with a little friend of Katie's. She runs up to this little girl, very excited, "Bats! Bats have echo location!" :LOL

We also went to the zoo after that and she had a great time in the bat exhibit. I love dispelling fear with information. Not to mention how cute it is to hear my 3yo saying 'echo location'!


Bec

[TEAK's Mom]

Eilonwy and Bec: I love the way they gather information. We were in Seattle and visiting the aquarium this past Christmas. When we got to the octopus tank, which was surrounded by older kids talking about the "funny fish," dd blurts out loud and clear, "Octopus is an invertebrate. He has no bones." We got some strange stares since she was 20 months old, tiny, and riding on my back.

FreeRangeMama: Your ds's response to having a sibling really resonated with me. Dd, too, knows a great deal of information and loves looking at pregnancy and birth pictures. But, she is very resistant to changes in her system, too. Do you think that being at the birth has made it any easier for him? I am going around and around about dd and the upcoming birth. On one hand, I believe that birth is natural, beautiful, and part of life. I also think that seeing the baby come out would give her a clearer context. On the other, she is very sensitive to things about me being out of place. She doesn't even like it when my midwife checks my blood pressure. What do you think?

[FreeRangeMama]

I think he NEEDED to be at the birth. He needed to see where this baby came from (he already knew, but needed to see this specific birth). I am so glad we had a homebirth, but especially a UC because there were no "outsiders". He would not have been comfortable with a "stranger" in OUR house. His characteristics influenced our choices because we really wanted to make it as positive of an experience for him as possible. We knew that it would affect him FOREVER regardless, but just tried to make it as positive as possible. He really should have been an only child, there are many benefits for him having siblings, but ideally he would have done better on his own We still want more children, but the transition will be rough each time. I feel selfish wanting more, its such a hard balance to do what is best for everyone.

Sorry to ramble on and on, its a hard subject for us.

[bec]

TEAK's Mom - They are funny, aren't they?

As far as siblings go, we spent a lot of time preparing Katie for the birth. She came to every prenatal appointment, and got to know the doctor. For all his numerous faults that I won't go into here, he was very good with Katie. He let her help him with the blood pressure, and let her listen to the baby with the fetoscope. I think that went a long way of easing her fear.

I showed Katie tons of books with pictures, and read her stories about kids having new babies. I also told her that, no matter what, she would still be able to nurse, and, even though there was a lot of redecorating going on (I think it was hormonal painting :LOL ), I promised her I wouldn't change anything in her room unless she gave me permission.

I also talked about what the birth was going to be like (I was planning a homebirth). We watched lots of birth shows and videos. I practiced groaning with her. I also told her grandma was going to come over to play with her. When things got really rolling, though, I found her too distracting. I needed to really concentrate but she was getting distressed anyway. Grandma took over with her.

I do think that Katie was an integral part of the birth, though. I believe it was her nursing that finally pushed me into active labor. In the early part of the evening, though, we had a wonderful snuggle as a family. It was so quiet and peaceful, Katie finally decided she wanted to nurse, and did for some time before the contractions became too much and I had to get out of bed. I look back on it, and am so glad that we had that last little bit of time. It was a beautiful transition from going from 1 to 2 children.

Katie has been a fabulous big sister. She has been tender and gentle, and I believe truly loves and likes Emily.


Bec

[eilonwy]

Originally Posted by FreeRangeMama

. He really should have been an only child, there are many benefits for him having siblings, but ideally he would have done better on his own We still want more children, but the transition will be rough each time. I feel selfish wanting more, its such a hard balance to do what is best for everyone.

This is one of the reasons that I wanted NewBean and Eli to be close together, age-wise. Eli's a fairly easygoing guy, but I can see things potentially changing as he gets older, and I didn't want that to be a huge issue. I figure that if he's already got a sibling, a new one later one won't be as much of a shock. We actually started ttc NewBean 4 cycles before we got pregnant. My only regret is that I didn't take seriously the idea that my milk might dry up, and I didn't realize how much Eli was still physically dependant on my milk. His little system was just not ready for the amount of solid food he needed, and that was really hard on all of us.

At any rate, I'm thinking that Eli probably won't be at the actual birth. He tends to get very upset when I'm in pain, and he wants to give hugs and kisses which I don't think would work well in labor. I'm afraid I'd squish him too hard! :LOL I would also like for NewBean's very first nursing session to be hers alone, and I know that if Eli sees me nursing her he'll want to latch on right away. I'm hoping to see him about half an hour after the birth, if that; I definately want him nearby, but not in the room.

[TEAK's Mom]

I have been thinking about whether or not TEAK would be better as an only child. I know that it would be easier, but maybe not better. In some ways, it is terrifying just how much like me she seems to be at the time (although, she is a little behind where I was on some things if my mother remembers correctly). We are not the same person by any stretch of the imagination, but she does things that others think are bizarre and I understand completely. When she paces around a room staring at a toy or random object and muttering, I know that she is spinning a very private story. I remember doing it and how vital it was to me.

Anyway, where I'm going with this is that, I know that transition to having a sibling will be incredibly hard on her. But, I also know how close my sisters and I are. If we don't talk at least twice a week, it's because one of us is living away from phone lines. We are totally different people, but we need each other almost on an instinctive level.

Sorry to ramble, I'm still working things out.

FreeRangeMama: Your experience is really backing up my gut feeling about TEAK and the birth. She needs to KNOW, not just hear where that baby came from so that she can integrate s/he into her worldview. Since dh is terrified by the idea of a UC, we will have a midwife in attendence, but we are working hard to build a relationship between them. Then, we'll play it by ear.

Eilonwy: Dd and her sibling will be a bit farther apart than yours, but boy do I understand the nursing drama. My problem is that dd seems to have weaned herself. She hasn't nursed (other that what I call 'status check' nursings where she asks, puts her mouth on my breast, giggles, and then goes off to read a book) in almost two months. I always thought (in my biased little mind) that weaning during pregnancy was initiated mostly by the mother. But, she knows that she can nurse if she wants to, so hopefully, that will help.

And now, back to our regularly scheduled thread...

[AlohaDeb]

Hey Britishmum --

How goes the preschool search?

[AlohaDeb]

Gifted kids and siblings

Originally Posted by FreeRangeMama

He really should have been an only child, there are many benefits for him having siblings, but ideally he would have done better on his own We still want more children, but the transition will be rough each time. I feel selfish wanting more, its such a hard balance to do what is best for everyone.

Sorry to ramble on and on, its a hard subject for us.

Having siblings is hard. I had ds#2 9 months ago and we're still dealing with a lot of fallout. It isn't that ds#1 is aggressive or anything towards his little brother... quite the contrary. He understands that ds#2 is a baby and needs special attention, but understanding that doesn't alleviate his own needs, KWIM? He is so empathetic that I think he easily identifies with the baby. In fact, that is our biggest challenge right now; ds#1 is acting very "baby-ish" emotionally, even talking more baby-like and refusing to do things he used to do by himself.

Dh wants to have two more kids. When we talk about it, I either laugh hysterically or feel guilty. It is hard enough to meet both sons' needs for stimulation now. Having a gifted child has really given me pause when it comes to having more children. I feel like you need to go above and beyond in order to "do right" by your gifted child, but that doesn't leave much left for other siblings or yourself!

[FreeRangeMama]

He is so empathetic that I think he easily identifies with the baby. In fact, that is our biggest challenge right now; ds#1 is acting very "baby-ish" emotionally, even talking more baby-like and refusing to do things he used to do by himself.

Yes!! We have some major regressive behaviour. They crawl around together, ds1 wants to nurse all the time, for a while he even wanted me to feed him (he always insisted on feeding himself as a baby). He seems to be doing a lot of things he didn't even do when he WAS that age just because ds2 is doing it. We are letting him do what he needs to.

He also is so bothered by ds2's cries. Whenever he is upset ds1 collapses in tears. It REAALY upsets him to hear his brother cry Then I have 2 distraught boys to console....... It is a challenge. I am glad he is so empathetic, but it is hard on a very practical day-to-day level.

[eilonwy]

Originally Posted by AlohaDeb

Having a gifted child has really given me pause when it comes to having more children. I feel like you need to go above and beyond in order to "do right" by your gifted child, but that doesn't leave much left for other siblings or yourself!

I have a slightly different perspective on this, I think, in large part because I grew up as a profoundly gifted child with four siblings, two of whom were also profoundly gifted and the other two... well, the slowest among us leaves "average" in the dust, to put it mildly.

I'm confident that I know what my children need in order to thrive. My siblings and I all have very different personalities, but we've influenced each other in interesting ways. For example, my younger brother. He was a lot more like the way you describe Akira; very resistant to change, highly observant but not resiliant in any way. When he ran into people out of context, his instinctive reaction was to freak out. I was much more relaxed than that, and in seeing my example he was able to calm down and think about the situation more rationally. It helped him a lot to have someone to talk to who was close to his own age and understood his perspective, and because I was older he tended to follow my lead in unfamiliar situations.

My youngest sister was a much more relaxed, sociable, outgoing person than I or my brother. If I hadn't been around setting an example, I'm fairly certain that she'd have been diagnosed with ADD because her initial instinct was to run around like a maniac. Because I was such a somber little person, and I was the one she wanted to be like, she tended to control herself much better than I think she was naturally inclined to do. I was the oldest child of the four of us (my older brother is an only child) and I was a born leader, so all of my siblings basically fell in line behind me. It was a good influence on them. I needed a better influence, though, and much more encouragement than I ever got from my mother (who was terrified of "pushing" because teachers had frightened her ) to work/learn/etc. (The only thing my mother ever encouraged me to do was play outside. When I was grounded, my punishment was to go outside without a book. The horror!)

At any rate, hindsight is 20/20. Having grown up seeing 5 very different, highly gifted children, I have an easier time understanding Eli than I might otherwise have. I'm not worried about handling difficult situations for him, because I've seen how six different gifted children (including my niece) react in different situations, and I can extrapolate from their similarities to EliBean. (Does this make any sense? My brain feels like it's sliding out again... :LOL)

I guess, in short, I'm saying that I see siblings as a good thing in the long run for the vast majority of children, even those who are resistant to change, because seeing someone else of a similar age and ability level deal with situations in a different way can really help a child, especially one who's having difficulty adapting. Gifted kids really need to be able to relate to someone, and while many of them are quite adept at seeming to relate to adults, it's nearly always easier to relate to a sibling than a parental figure. My niece, personality-wise, is much like my sister was at that age only much more ...bubbly (lost a word. ) If my sister hadn't been around me, a somber, introspective child, she'd have been exactly the same way. (Not to say that 'bubbliness' is a bad thing, but my niece is very close to being diagnosed with ADHD because she gets so bored and wants to socialize rather than do what people ask of her.) My niece spends a lot of time with me, but she doesn't see me as someone she wants/needs to emulate; I'm an adult, and she's a child. See what I mean?

[AlohaDeb]

Rynna -

What is your mother's perspective on this? No offense, but you only have one child right now. When I only had ds#1, I was a lot more confident about how it would be when ds#2 came along. Ds#1 was relatively easy-going, and I thought ds#2 would be too.

ITA that in the long run, having siblings will probably be good for the kids. But when both your babies are distraught and crying, it's hard to remember that! I wonder if maybe spacing issues are different with gifted kids...? How far apart are you and your siblings?

[FreeRangeMama]

I understand the benefits of having siblings, but SOME children really would do better to not be the OLDEST sibling. Akira is a LOT like I was as a child and a LOT like my brother was as a child. I thrived, but my brother did not. Part of that was that after 3 other gifted children and a gifted husband my mom knew better how to deal with me, but also it is 100% different to be a 1st born. There are unique challenges.

My dh comes from a "gifted" family as well. He is a 2nd born (of 5 children) and was often overlooked. They just didn't realize how amazing he was until recently. Part of that was his personality (he is always joking around so people assume he is just a comedian, but he is highly intelligent as well), but part of it comes from the fact that his sister and him were born 16 mo apart and his mom was just so busy with such a sensitive 1st born and a super energetic 2nd born.

My nephew was the same story. He thrived until his sister was born (they are closely spaced as well). Gifted firstborns DO have a difficult time (at least in the real-life situations in MY life). It seems the more "profound" the giftedness, the more likely some of these other issues (Dabrowski's over-excitabilities, sensory sensitivities, different way of seeing the world, extreme empathy just as a few examples) which makes it even more necessary for extra attention from Mama.

I KNOW what my children need to thrive, unfortunately what Akira needs is the kind of one-on-one attention that is difficult to provide with a babe in tow. As prepared as I *thought* I was, actually HAVING 2 was much different than I would have imagined I had to carry a 35 lb 2 yo AND a baby everywhere in the slings because he really needs to be connected to me in over-stimulating situations. When 1 cries so does the other. It is a challenge to sooth both at the same time. My older child's needs were just as intense as the newborn's were. I know when we have a 3rd (and maybe even a 4th) it will be a hard adjustment as well. Each of these scenarios will have benefits, but I would never want to underestimate the downfalls either. I guess I am a realist that way

[FreeRangeMama]

I also forgot to say that I am glad to have this thread Some of the "gifted" groups I have checked out have been all about comparing children or bragging under the guise of asking questions. It is hard to get support for a problem you might have when most of the other posters just want to tell you how much MORE gifted their child is :LOL That is one of the reasons I would never own up to being "gifted", I just hate the competetion it leads to.

This thread is great, we can discuss the challenging aspects honstly and receive only support, not one-upmanship

[AlohaDeb]

Originally Posted by FreeRangeMama

I KNOW what my children need to thrive, unfortunately what Akira needs is the kind of one-on-one attention that is difficult to provide with a babe in tow....
. When 1 cries so does the other. It is a challenge to sooth both at the same time. My older child's needs were just as intense as the newborn's were.

Yup, this is exactly what we are going through. I notice that our kids are about the same age difference. In my case, ds#1 was born in Feb '01, and ds#2 was born in Aug '03. Pretty close!

I feel guilty because ds#1 needs the one-on-one attention, too. As is typical with a gifted child, right now I am his only friend. As you know, the preschool thing hasn't been working out as well as I had hoped, because he really hasn't found any "peers" in the true sense of the word.

I also fooled myself into thinking that because ds#1 was so intellectually advanced, that he was also much more emotionally mature than he was. It's an easy thing to fall into, yeah? You're discussing such grown-up topics and then - wham! - a melt-down because I put salt on his egg when he didn't want it and I was too busy trying to feed the baby to ask him about it beforehand! ITA that my firstborn's needs were as intense as the newborn's, but I hadn't anticipated that!

[FreeRangeMama]

I feel guilty because ds#1 needs the one-on-one attention, too. As is typical with a gifted child, right now I am his only friend. As you know, the preschool thing hasn't been working out as well as I had hoped, because he really hasn't found any "peers" in the true sense of the word.

That is our problem as well. We are homeschooling (well, unschooling most likely) when that time comes because we just know ds could not handle a school environment. He only really associates well with adults, and maybe occasionally older children as well. Generally he just doesn't "get" other kids and prefers to avoid them. It is a challenge to provide the companionship as well as the parenting to him, but I feel right now there is little choice.

I have found that it is getting easier (in some regards anyway) now that ds2 is getting older. He plays with ds2 but gets frustrated with the way ds2 plays with toys. Ds1 hates how he teethes on things because "toys are not for chewing!!" and freaks out if ds2 gets too close to his "very special toys". He wants things used in a specific way and does not want to see them used otherwise Overall it is getting easier though. How are you finding things as they get older?

[AlohaDeb]

It is getting easier...

It's getting easier because ds#2 is discovering ways to entertain himself, without always going after what ds#1 is doing. But, ds#2 is a lot more mobile, so it's harder for ds#1 to keep his stuff away from him, too. I'm reading Siblings without Rivalry and trying to keep those principles in mind when we're all going about the day.

One of my big things is that I am the eldest sibling of two, and although I'd like to think I'm no more neurotic than the next person I do have some issues with being the oldest. I think my mother let me take care of my younger brother much more than she should have, basically placing a lot of responsibility on me at too young of an age. I'm gifted and very responsible, so I guess that's why. But I resented it, I don't feel like I got enough childhood (if that makes sense?) and it damaged my relationship with my brother, I think I'm determined not to place too much of that burden on ds#1, if I can help it.

[eilonwy]

You're absolutely correct; I've only got one kid right now, so I'm probably a bit naive about the realities of actually having two.

My siblings and I are painfully close. Earlier in this thread, I mentioned that Eli spoke his first 2-word sentence at 7 weeks, and that I may have as well but my mother doesn't know because she had morning sickness by then. I have a brother who is 10 months younger than I am, a sister 20 months younger than him and another sister 20 months younger than her (if I did my math right. You try: Oct 77, Sept 78, May 80 and Jan 82. Arithmatic is beyond the powers of my tapioca brain for the moment. :LOL) The youngest sister (Jan 82) and my brother (Sept 78) are the "profoundly gifted" ones, though my other sister and older brother (Aug 70/only child) are by no means slow.

So there were four of us, under the age of four, when my mother left my father in April of 82. Single parent family, no money, and a real pain in the butt. My mother's a very smart person, but she spent most of my childhood extremely depressed, and relied on me *way* more than any parent should ever rely on a child. She easily fell into the trap you mentioned of thinking that because I/we were so bright, she could treat us like adults. The problem was, I didn't see anything wrong with that, and I felt that the fault was mine if I was unable to deal with it. So I dealt. Later on, I grew to resent being treated like a small adult because I saw that other children could have fun, could do things with their friends, while I had to take care of my siblings. I also wondered why my mother didn't love me, because she was never as affectionate with me as she was with my siblings. Not to say that she's ever been a touchy-feely person, but I can count the number of times my mother has hugged me since I was 18 months old on one hand.

I agree that some children, personality-wise, would do much better in a different birth-order situation than the one they're in. Luckily, Eli is my mother's fourth grandchild so if he needs an "older sibling" figure, we can kind of make one for him. My niece is a very charismatic little person, and she's definately an older child. I was fine as an oldest child, my brother would not have been.

My mother's opinion on very bright children and spacing is that they're somewhat easier to have closer together than other children, because they tend to get out of the infant stage sooner and into the resistance-to-change stage sooner. I think that ideally she'd have spaced all of us about 20 months apart. Of course, Eli and NewBean are too close together because Eli needed more breastmilk than he was getting, but she thinks that personality-wise, and in terms of dealing with them, they'll be just fine (about 19 months).

[elfinbaby]

I'm going to jump right in here b/c there are so many things I can relate to. I read up to page 6 and will finish the rest afterwards.

My son is going to be 6 this summer and, although I choose not to "label", it's no secret he's got the goods Our biggest challenge is social skills. We found a great preschool that goes to the 5th grade through an educational counseler (which I highly recommend btw). They taught him that banging another child on the head with a truck was not a good way to get the child to play with him. He's come along way but we're still working on it. For instance, his teacher (I trust her completely) has known him for 3 yrs. and decided he should be evaluated for Aspergers. We're still considering that but since dh dropped the 2nd job his behavior has improved immensely.

I've dealt with competitive moms that force me to keep my mouth shut b/c I don't want them to think I'm bragging. I've dealt with morons that think if I cracked down I could make him follow the rules. And I've also dealt with the people who think I'm exaggerating his abilities (I don't have time for those people anymore) or the ones who think I'm pushing him (like I can actually make him do anything he doesn't want to do).

I'm an unschooler at heart but he needs socialization and I can't provide that at home. I also have 2 other kids - dd#1 2 yrs. and dd#2 6 mos. #1 is developmentall delayed but beautiful, peaceful and full of love. My 3rd is the perfect blend between the other 2 She's so happy but active and curious.

Kids are up!

[The Lucky One]

Hello all! I just found this thread and have been skimming through it. What alot of bright children we have!

Although he hasn't been formally tested, I'm quite certain ds#1 is gifted. As you can see in my sig, I also have a ds2 who isn't quite 4 weeks old, so I don't have much time to go into detail-maybe later.

What I am wondering is if you have your young gifted dc's in any kind of formal class or lesson?

One of the major problems I face daily with ds1 is boredom. He requires almost constant verbal interaction, which was fine and easy to accomplish when he was my only child, but since ds2's arrival, it has gotten harder for me to give him what he needs. Dh and I had wondered if some sort of lesson or class would give him a way to channel his mental energy. I was thinking perhaps violin or piano, because those are instruments that I can play and could help him between lessons, but I'm not sure that age 2.5 is an appropriate age. We had also thought of dance class or gymnastics, but I'm not sure how he would do in a group setting. I have a feeling he wouldn't thrive unless he could get one-on-one with the teacher. He is very soft spoken and gentle and other kids tend to push him around.

Gotta go for now, babe is hungry.....

lisa

[eilonwy]

Hello!

Eli's not in any classes or anything like that, but right now I'd absolutely *love* to send him somewhere. :LOL The most important thing to me, though, would be to follow his interests. Eli loves water, for example, and I think he'd have the time of his life in a father-son swimming class. He also really likes to dance and move around, so maybe a creative motion class. His other hobbies... well, they don't really lend themselves to classes available for kids his age. In fact, I don't think I've even seen a creative motion class for kids under three.. but I digress. If your son is interested in the violin or the piano, I'd definately encourage that but if he's not interested then I can't really see the point at his age, kwim? I definately want Eli to play a musical instrument, but right now he's much more interested in dancing to music and looking at maps. (We watched the Weather Channel for two hours this morning... ) If he hasn't expressed interest in any particular instrument by the time he's 5 or 6, I'll probably start teaching him piano or violin (I play those too! ) but I won't enroll him in formal lessons unles he wants to continue beyond what I can teach.

Does your son read? That would definately give him something to do during the day when you need quiet time or time to nurse the baby.. Eli finds merely holding a book to be soothing sometimes (I guess he inherited that from me :LOL) even though he can't read words aside from his name, his cousins' names, and various logos. He's a very active boy most of the time, so seeing him curl up with a book and "read" it is really great. He'll do the same thing with a laminated map, just stare at it for hours, tracing rivers with his little Bean fingers. :LOL

Coloring and painting are also loads of fun, and fairly easy, requiring minimal supervision as long as your supplies are non-toxic. I can hand Eli a crayon and he'll just disappear for 40 minutes. :LOL Crayola's washable crayons really are washable, btw, and the Mr. Clean Magic Eraser really does magically erase crayon marks. Well worth it for the quiet time! If you're really clever, you'll tape paper from a long roll along the wall, so he can color for ages and then you just take it down and turn it over for even more fun. I am not energetic enough right now to do that, but I will be soon enough! :LOL