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Can anyone explain to me why the LDS/Mormons continue to baptize the dead???  

post #1 of 104
Thread Starter 
After they have been told not to?! I don't understand this at all.

Quote:
SALT LAKE CITY - Researchers say that Mormons have continued to posthumously baptize Jewish Holocaust victims into their faith despite a promise to discontinue the practice.

"We are very hopeful that we will be able to convince the church to stop," Ernest Michel, chairman of the New York-based World Gathering of Jewish Holocaust Survivors, said Friday. If not, Michel said, his group will consider other options, "possibly legal steps."
Quote:
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has long collected names from government documents and other records worldwide for posthumous baptisms. Church members stand in to be baptized in the names of the deceased non-Mormons, a ritual the church says is required for them to reach heaven.

Quote:
In 1995, the Mormon church acceded to demands by Jewish leaders that the denomination stop posthumously baptizing Jews. But Helen Radkey, a Salt Lake City researcher, said on Friday that the process still hasn't ended.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...ing_the_dead_2
post #2 of 104
That is so disrespectful!
post #3 of 104
That was one of my biggest problems with the Morman faith. On top of it all, they have twelve year old girls do baptisms for the dead.

Where is the shudder smilie?

Anyway, I was coersed at a age of twelve to do this and it has haunted me all my life.

It is so disrespectful.
post #4 of 104
That is soo wrong...
post #5 of 104
post #6 of 104
That is horrible and very disrespectful!
post #7 of 104
Going on tiptoe into this thread..... (where's the tiptoe icon??!)

I grew up Mormon, but I don't really consider myself LDS anymore. Your question comes across as a little confusing........there are two different issues here, I think.

First of all, baptisms for the dead, and secondly, baptisms for the dead of a group of people (Jews) who have asked specifically to be excluded from the practice.

I agree that the second issue is disrespectful, but that the first issue, although a little creepy to "outsiders," is perfectly within their rights. USUALLY, people find ancestors within their own lines who weren't baptized, and they submit those names to be baptized posthumously, because "of course" Great-Grandpa, or whoever, would want to be baptized once he learns the "truth" in heaven.

I'm not trying to be sarcastic, or offend anyone on either side. And yes, I know first-hand about baptisms for the dead because I, like Zaq001, was involved with them at the age of 12. It didn't haunt me for life, though.

It's also my understanding that other temple ceremonies are performed posthumously, as well, although I wasn't ever involved in other ceremonies for the dead.

Anyway, no one was really addressing your question, so I thought I would, at least to some extent.

(And I think that this thread should be moved to Spirituality)
post #8 of 104
I did not grow up LDS, but my neighbors were LDS, and I got to know them at a time of my life when I was busy investigating religion in general.

It is my understanding that LDS, being very family oriented, believe that the family unit extends beyond this lifetime and in baptizing those who passed on to the afterlife before Joseph Smith, they are able to continue the family unit to all of their ancestors who did not have the chance to be baptized under the auspices of the LDS.

I do believe that this does not mean any disrespect to other religions. It is a religious practice, so I think they should be able to continue.

You would not want the LDS to ask you or your religion to discontinue a particular part of your religion would you?
post #9 of 104
As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints I also find it disrespectful that individual members of the church have continued to collect names of Holocaust Jews when expressly told not to. Those that have continued to do so since 1995 are very misguided and clearly do not understand or take seriously the church leadership's position on the issue.

I take exception, though, to the idea that this is something the Church organization (as in "the Mormons" or "the Latter-day Saints') advocates. It is not, and the 1995 statement they issued still stands. Since submission of names for proxy baptism is voluntary and not carefully monitored (obviously, the church leadership didn't realize that individuals would disregard the statement), unless brought to their attention, they would not know that the names were those of Holocaust Jews. I imagine that church leaders are taking steps to monitor the process more closely since their goal is definitely not to offend.

If anyone is interested in the practice, they can read briefly here http://www.mormon.org/learn/0,8672,1300-1,00.html As you see, the main purpose is for people to search out their *own* family history and genealogy, not random groups of deceased people. And rules apply here as well (like having permission from the nearest living relative).

To Zaq001, you clearly had a bad experience, and I'm really sorry for that, but I wasn't sure if you have a problem with 12-year-old girls being a part of religious ordinances in general or if specific individuals in your situation caused you to feel creeped out. I've done proxy baptisms myself (btw, any LDS person can do them, but they can be no younger than 12) but my experience was very positive. And I'm sorry that you felt coerced by anyone because there is no place for that in one's religious observance. In my practice of the LDS faith, freedom of choice and agency are paramount. But I'm sure that there are those who don't understand that core doctrine.

In case others wonder about the ordinance itself, it's identical to the baptism LDS and other Christians perform with living people--a person is completely immersed in water while the person doing the baptizing utters a prayer affirming that it is being done in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

And of course, I understand that some people here will think that the practice of proxy baptism is disrespectful no matter what. In the past we've talked about missionaries and proselyting and many people did not agree with that either. But these are things we hold sacred. And I know, however, that the Church wants to carry them out in the most respectful manner possible.
post #10 of 104
If they are only doing it to/for other Mormons fine but they should not disrespect other peoples' religion by doing it to them. In respecting their rights to their religion you can not take away someone elses' rights to theirs or their right to not be religious as well.
post #11 of 104
Quote:
Originally posted by Sheacoby
If they are only doing it to/for other Mormons fine but they should not disrespect other peoples' religion by doing it to them. In respecting their rights to their religion you can not take away someone elses' rights to theirs or their right to not be religious as well.

Exactly my thought.... Well said...
post #12 of 104
How can they continue to do this? Complete and total disrespect and disregard of the validity of any other faith, that's how.

Quote:
I do believe that this does not mean any disrespect to other religions. It is a religious practice, so I think they should be able to continue.
Just because their intent is not to be disrespectful doesn't mean the chosen action isn't disrespectful in its results. To give two examples: My sister didn't intend to slice our brother's head open when she threw the bleach bottle piggy bank, but he still needed the stitches! Drunk drivers don't intend to cause fatal accidents, but the victims are still just as dead.

Intent is meaningless when the result is harm. The harm is just as real regardless of the stated intent.

Quote:
You would not want the LDS to ask you or your religion to discontinue a particular part of your religion would you?
Oh yes I would, IF I was doing something that twisted some practice of theirs while claiming it to be the same.... If I was unknowingly doing something that profoundly insulted someone's religion, I most certainly would want to know so that I could cease and desist. But then I am ethical that way....apparently unlike the Mormons continuing to do this after being informed and requested to stop.

And I don't buy the concept of the leadership not knowing. What are they doing if not paying attention to what their followers are doing in the religion's name? With the position goes the responsibility. If they can't take the responsibility then maybe they should surrender the positions to those as will?
post #13 of 104
TECHNICALLY, it's always done for/to someone who wasn't Mormon in this lifetime. (Using the great-Grandpa example, perhaps he never heard of the church, so didn't have a chance to "accept" or "reject" it for himself on Earth.)

The assumption is that Great-Grandpa is in heaven, wanting to be LDS, but needing someone on Earth to perform the ceremony (baptism) for him. Which doesn't make much sense to me now, but I really bought into it when I was 12.
post #14 of 104
Quote:
Intent is meaningless when the result is harm. The harm is just as real regardless of the stated intent.
While I agree that it is kinda wacky, where is the harm? Who is really being *harmed*?
post #15 of 104
Moving this to Spirituality...
post #16 of 104
Don't they believe there is no way for these souls to go to heaven otherwise?

For those who don't share the belief that the mormon religion is the path to heaven, it would be disrespectful. But for people who think that they are giving salvation to thousand of souls who would otherwise suffer eternity, it wouldn't be disrespectful.

All kinda strange. . .
post #17 of 104
Quote:
Originally posted by A&A

The assumption is that Great-Grandpa is in heaven, wanting to be LDS, but needing someone on Earth to perform the ceremony (baptism) for him.

So i am assuming then the mormon church their beliefs are the one true religion and if you dont believe in it ur not going to heaven???

something about this practice still doesnt make sense to me...

why baptize jewish descendants..obviously they made their choice on earth...

something about this whole thing isnt right... maybe its just cuz im not LDS so i dont understand the whole reasoning behind it...
post #18 of 104
I have a real problem with this practice in any form. I had a very good friend who died 4 years ago. His mother became Mormon after this. I have a feeling that she had a proxy baptism for him even though he would have been against it with every part of his being. I feel it is disrespectful of others beliefs.

I grew up in the Mormon church at a very young age. My mother's family is mostly LDS and has had family members baptized after death. It would bother me if this happened to me. I would feel that the person that had it done had no respect for my own feelings.

The fact that they are doing this to a group of people that were so different from them spiritually and who died for that really bothers me. They have asked for this to stop and it hasn't. Do we have no respect for these people that have been through so much?
post #19 of 104
Quote:
Originally posted by tricia80
So i am assuming then the mormon church their beliefs are the one true religion and if you dont believe in it ur not going to heaven???

Mormons believe in different levels of heaven. So, you'll be in heaven, but not in the top level, if that makes sense.
post #20 of 104
Quote:
Originally posted by Sheacoby
If they are only doing it to/for other Mormons fine but they should not disrespect other peoples' religion by doing it to them. In respecting their rights to their religion you can not take away someone elses' rights to theirs or their right to not be religious as well.
That's what I meant when I posted above about the practice being disrespectful. I meant disrespectful for them to baptise holocast jews after being told not to.
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Mothering › Forums › Natural Family Living › Spirituality › Religious Studies › Can anyone explain to me why the LDS/Mormons continue to baptize the dead???