rotten teeth from nigh nursing?

[pedal_princess]

can your child get rotten teeth from co-sleeping and nursing throughout the night?

i had never heard of this, but it just happened to my SIL. at least that's how her dentist explained it. my SIL's DD was 18 months old and still nursing. she often nurses throughout the night, falling asleep on her breast. they co-sleep.

she swears she brushed her teeth with floride-free toothpaste every day. she ended up having to have her DD's 2 front teeth pulled! the dentist said it was no different than falling asleep with a bottle [of formula].

will night nursing really cause rotten teeth? i do it every night with my 1-YO and now i'm paranoid.

[etsdtm99]

it is not the same as a bottle of formula - in a number of ways - #1 , its breastmilk and it actually has antibacterial properties - the more often you nurse at night, the less bacteria ..  now, having breastmilk on food, on teeth is not so good- brush before bed and you eliminate that issue - #2 - a bottle allows milk to drip out a pool in the mouth, the breast does not do this!! a baby who is latched on will be sucking and swallowing, not letting milk sit on their teeth. 

now, early childhood cavities and teeth rotting does happen - but that doesn't mean nursing causes it.  many believe it is mostly diet and/or genetics ..

[Comtessa]

There's an excellent article on the topic here: http://kellymom.com/bf/older-baby/tooth-decay.html

I was nervous about it too, after a friend's toddler experienced the same thing as your SIL, but the science seems to be opposed to what the dentist is saying.    

[gardenbelle]

I know this is an older thread, but I took my 19 month old to the dentist yesterday and she has bottle rot!  She has never had a bottle in her life. :(  I brush her teeth once or twice a day but the dentist told me that since breast milk has sugar in it, it can cause tooth decay if they nurse to sleep.  He told me to avoid this, parents should wipe their child's teeth with a wet washcloth after night feedings.  I'm so pissed because I read this couldn't happen but now I am realizing all the articles were from pro-breastfeeding sites so there was some vested interest.  My daughter's dentist could care less about if I breastfeed or not, he's just telling me what he sees.

She will now need 4 crowns and needs to be put under anesthesia for it. :(  It will also cost around $3000 out of pocket, ouch.  Just a warning to all night time nursing moms - if you see any film collecting on your child's teeth, take them in asap.  Also, wipe your baby's teeth with a washcloth after feeding if you can.  I know, easier said than done!

BTW, I'm not sharing this with anyone else but fellow breastfeeding moms because I already get enough heat from friends and family about breastfeeding my toddler and I don't want to fuel their fire.  I can just hear it now (eyeroll).

[LionessMom]

i still night nurse my toddler. she started developing decay. it was bad. all her teeth were soft and the backs were yellow and mushy. 

now they are all perfect white and hard. with one crown on one tooth that she broke off before we fixed it. 

my daughter has fructose malabsorption. bc she was eating applesauce and stuff with any sugar it was causing malnutrition. also she was wearing an amber teething necklace constantly. this cuts down on saliva which helps remineralize your teeth. 

i cut all fruit, juice and sugar out of her diet (except lemon and lime juice which i mix with stevia and water for her vit c). she eats meat, lots of good fats, organic butter, and takes cell salts regularly. i also took off the amber and only use it when she is going through sleepless nights. 

her teeth have rehardened and she has no problems. i dont even brush her teeth hardly. we just went to the dentist yesterday and he was surprised how white and healthy they were. 

it doesnt always work for everybody like this but it is worth a try. most dental issues are caused by a lack of minerals which can be caused by food intolerances or celiac disease.

[gardenbelle]

Thanks for your reply, Jennifer, this makes me hopeful that some of the damage could be reversed.  I'm going to make an appt with her ped again just to rule out any underlying medical issues that could have contributed to this.  I've researched a bit more and it looks like certain people are predisposed to cavities - I nursed my son at night and he has beautiful, healthy teeth.  I definitely would love it if we could get her teeth healthy enough to avoid all that dental work; it sounds so painful. :(

[Asiago]

That is very interesting info LionessMom, thank you so much for posting.

[BubblingBrooks]

Teeth rot from the inside out. Science proves that. What you eat does affect how the babies teeth develop in the early months.

Did you know that you can reverse that decay? I have done it in my own mouth, and numerous other parents have reversed theirs as well as their children's tooth decay.
I diet rich in animal fats and minerals is key.

A body is not disposed to cavities naturally or not.
Have you looked at Dr Weston Prices book with all the research and pictures?
Cavitation rates used to run about 1% prior to industrialization.

Originally Posted by gardenbelle 

I know this is an older thread, but I took my 19 month old to the dentist yesterday and she has bottle rot!  She has never had a bottle in her life. :(  I brush her teeth once or twice a day but the dentist told me that since breast milk has sugar in it, it can cause tooth decay if they nurse to sleep.  He told me to avoid this, parents should wipe their child's teeth with a wet washcloth after night feedings.  I'm so pissed because I read this couldn't happen but now I am realizing all the articles were from pro-breastfeeding sites so there was some vested interest.  My daughter's dentist could care less about if I breastfeed or not, he's just telling me what he sees.

She will now need 4 crowns and needs to be put under anesthesia for it. :(  It will also cost around $3000 out of pocket, ouch.  Just a warning to all night time nursing moms - if you see any film collecting on your child's teeth, take them in asap.  Also, wipe your baby's teeth with a washcloth after feeding if you can.  I know, easier said than done!

BTW, I'm not sharing this with anyone else but fellow breastfeeding moms because I already get enough heat from friends and family about breastfeeding my toddler and I don't want to fuel their fire.  I can just hear it now (eyeroll).

[gardenbelle]

Thanks for the info, I will absolutely look into the book.  I spoke with my dentist yesterday for a second opinion to see what her take was on it.  She BFed until her daughter was 3 so I felt like she would be a good person to talk to.  She reiterated what my daughter's dentist said - it was most likely breastfeeding as breastmilk has a lot of sugar.  She did say that the breastfeeding will make her smarter so who cares about a few cavities now.  LOL  I also spoke with my daughter's dentist again today to ask if there could be any other explanations and he said that sometimes children's teeth come in already decayed and it starts in the womb.  I'm going to look into this; I took prenatal vitamins and ate healthy, organic non GMO food the entire pregnancy, so if it's that, I'll be baffled. 

It's definitely not for certain that it was breastfeeding, but now that I have done some searching online, I have read countless stories similar to mine.  Bottom line, I feel like dentists are saying it as they see it, whereas pro-breastfeeding sources may have some vested interest.  Don't get me wrong, I am a huge fan of breastfeeding and I have no plans on weaning anytime soon but I definitely think that this type of info should be out there on the BFing sites like kellymom just to warn moms of the signs of decay and at least say that it's a possibility.  Up until I took my daughter in, I felt like because she was exclusively BFed and didn't even have solids until 8-9 months that I didn't need to worry about tooth decay.  I'm so bummed I didn't watch for the signs earlier. :(

I'm also going to take her into my D.O. to see if he has any ideas because her pediatrician (who's also pro-breastfeeding) agrees with the dentist and doesn't see reason to explore any further.  I've been wondering if she has a mineral deficiency ever since I read Jennifer's post.

Thanks for all the helpful info, ladies!
 

Originally Posted by BubblingBrooks 

Teeth rot from the inside out. Science proves that. What you eat does affect how the babies teeth develop in the early months.

Did you know that you can reverse that decay? I have done it in my own mouth, and numerous other parents have reversed theirs as well as their children's tooth decay.
I diet rich in animal fats and minerals is key.

A body is not disposed to cavities naturally or not.
Have you looked at Dr Weston Prices book with all the research and pictures?
Cavitation rates used to run about 1% prior to industrialization.

[LionessMom]

i also talked to my dentist about it. all the know is what they were taught in dental school. he didnt even think there was a way to remineralize teeth or anything. i had to research that on my own. i liked the book healing decay. it is a popular book around here. the sugar in breastmilk does nothing to the teeth. that is crazy. first of all the milk would have to sit around in the kids mouth but that nipple is at the back of their mouth. even after pulling it out the puddle that is left gets swallowed or mixed with saliva which neutralizes it. saliva is essential for remineralization. also, flouride free toothpastes contain glycerin. it can coat the teeth and keep the saliva from reaching the teeth. all i do to clean my youngests teeth is a wet rag. sometimes she gets flouride free toothpaste on her toothbrush. dont ask a dentist. they dont know. weston price has good info too. and the sugar in milk isnt the same as the sugar in formula. that stuff is like soda. the book says that teeth have a flow to them. they flow from inside to outside. when you have enough minerals, the flow goes correctly so that the minerals are taken to the teeth. when you dont have enough minerals, the flow reverses to take away minerals from the teeth to take the somewhere else where they are needed more. 

think about it, what did prehistoric man do? they didnt have dentist or fillings or flouride. but when you find their skeletons, they have good teeth. that is what convinced me. remember, doctors, dentists, all medical professionals, were taught by other medical professionals in institutions. all they know is what they were taught by the institution which is controlled by outside interests. $$. My personal opinion. 

[Aleida Gomez]

A must read is the book: Cure Tooth Decay, Ramiel Nagel

It has helped me a lot.

Greetings from Quito-Ecuador

[gardenbelle]

Hmm, I don't know, I think we are going to have to agree to disagree.  I think the argument of prehistoric man is not solid considering the difference in diet and their drastically shorter life span but I see what you are getting at. Are you sure they had perfect teeth though?  I remember reading the opposite and about suicides over tooth aches, eek.  I just watched a documentary on prehistoric man and one of the skeletons they found had an absess (sp?) in their mouth from tooth decay.

I will see if my library has the book you are talking about as I am going there later today.  I'm all for trying to rectify this through diet change and I am going to take her to my D.O. the week after Thanksgiving for him to run some tests for mineral deficiencies and possibly a gluten issue.  I want to get to the bottom of this but I do think it would be reckless of me to disregard what the dentist have said, especially considering it's such an easy thing to do - clean her teeth after feedings. 

I really don't think it's a bad thing if it was breast milk now that I've had a few days to let the news sink in, I am still so glad I nurse her and my dentist has a good point - so what if she has a few cavities from it when breast milk is so good for her? :)
 

Originally Posted by LionessMom 

i also talked to my dentist about it. all the know is what they were taught in dental school. he didnt even think there was a way to remineralize teeth or anything. i had to research that on my own. i liked the book healing decay. it is a popular book around here. the sugar in breastmilk does nothing to the teeth. that is crazy. first of all the milk would have to sit around in the kids mouth but that nipple is at the back of their mouth. even after pulling it out the puddle that is left gets swallowed or mixed with saliva which neutralizes it. saliva is essential for remineralization. also, flouride free toothpastes contain glycerin. it can coat the teeth and keep the saliva from reaching the teeth. all i do to clean my youngests teeth is a wet rag. sometimes she gets flouride free toothpaste on her toothbrush. dont ask a dentist. they dont know. weston price has good info too. and the sugar in milk isnt the same as the sugar in formula. that stuff is like soda. the book says that teeth have a flow to them. they flow from inside to outside. when you have enough minerals, the flow goes correctly so that the minerals are taken to the teeth. when you dont have enough minerals, the flow reverses to take away minerals from the teeth to take the somewhere else where they are needed more. 

think about it, what did prehistoric man do? they didnt have dentist or fillings or flouride. but when you find their skeletons, they have good teeth. that is what convinced me. remember, doctors, dentists, all medical professionals, were taught by other medical professionals in institutions. all they know is what they were taught by the institution which is controlled by outside interests. $$. My personal opinion. 

[BubblingBrooks]

Tooth decay has always occured, and to an extent, refing foods has also occurred through out time.

The Egyptians were noted for refining their flour, and by looking at xrays of mummies, they have seen evidence of poor diet in them.

Dr Price found a 1-2% rate of cavitation's in villages all over the world that were protected from the road system and were not yet consuming refined foods.
Villages from the same peoples, but has access to refined foods, were another story all together.
It was the latter villages that he visited that had high suicide rates due to tooth decay.

The building blocks for growing a baby start many years before the mother conceives. In fact, they can be traced back a couple generations!
Each generation that persists in eating refined foods, rather then whole foods with an emphasis on animal protein and fat, be it in the form of bugs and grubs, dairy and eggs or meat and lard, or a combo of several manifests a slow decline in "perfect" building blocks.
Narrow faces and crowded teeth are the norm now, and along with them, narrow pelvises in females.

During the first three years of a babies life, these things can be overcome if they have occurred.
We are adopting a little girl. not yet a year old, and we have reversed her severe under bite, and the teeth that she has coming in look excellent.

A man by the name of Pottenger found that it only takes 3 generations of cats fed a diet very low if not devoid of animal foods, to lose all ability to reproduce. And along the way, deformities were the norm.
It also takes 3 generations to fully reverse these issues as well.

Anyway, I could ramble on forever...
Here is a portion of Dr Prices book.
http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks02/0200251h.html
At least look at the pics :)

[alicewyf]

I have no idea what caused our daughter to not get tooth decay. She nursed at least once a night until she was 23 months old, when we nightweaned her. We were vigilant about brushing her teeth before she slept (both naps and bedtimes). She has never used flouride toothpaste, we alternate the Oral-B "toddler toothpaste" and Spry. She did not have juice or sugar AT ALL on a regular basis until she was around 2 yrs old. She fully weaned at 25 months and still has perfect teeth. I do think some of it is genetics--neither DH nor I have ever had a cavity. Honestly breastfeeding linked with tooth decay seems like a giant mystery to me.

[Shaki]

I'm not informed on the big picture issues that many posters are discussing (minerals and diet and all that). I just wanted to chime in and say my DD did have tooth decay and our pediatric dentist did assume night nursing was the cause, I told her weaning was not an option, so we treated the decay and kept on nursing. From a year old we've been vigilant with tooth brushing, flossing, fluoride treatments, and frequent dental visits. We were able to hold the decay in check without stopping our nightnursing. (She's 5 now, with healthy teeth.)

DD got teeth at 5 months and I had been told by many people not to worry about brushing until she was eating solids. Bad advice. I now think we should have started a tooth care routine when she got her first teeth. She's had more dental visits and procedures than should have had to have. I will be more vigilant with DS and I will still allow him to nurse at night for as long as we both want to.

Just sharing my experience in the hope that it's of some help to another nightnursing mama.

[gardenbelle]

Thanks for all the info!  My local library had no books by Weston Price, but I did quite a bit of research on WAPF tonight to see what it's about.  I am very fascinated!  I agree with quite a bit I have to say, esp the whole foods idea.  I make most of our diet from scratch using whole foods, though I do make our bread, pasta and baked goods with wheat flour. We do eat our fair share of organic meats and we keep chickens for eggs so we do eat a lot of eggs.  I'm not sold, however, on some of the other ideas esp considering he passed in 1948 so a lot of the information is based on old research that is interpreted by other people.  I still think that eating sugar and not brushing is a main cause of cavities and breast milk does have a lot of sugar in it, so I'm still pretty confident in the dentist's explanation.  That's not to say I won't rule out a mineral deficiency or food intolerance though, I want to make sure I don't overlook anything.  I can't imagine how bad I would feel if I didn't explore other causes and she continued to get more tooth decay.  Thanks again for all the info!
 

Originally Posted by BubblingBrooks 

Tooth decay has always occured, and to an extent, refing foods has also occurred through out time.

The Egyptians were noted for refining their flour, and by looking at xrays of mummies, they have seen evidence of poor diet in them.

Dr Price found a 1-2% rate of cavitation's in villages all over the world that were protected from the road system and were not yet consuming refined foods.
Villages from the same peoples, but has access to refined foods, were another story all together.
It was the latter villages that he visited that had high suicide rates due to tooth decay.

The building blocks for growing a baby start many years before the mother conceives. In fact, they can be traced back a couple generations!
Each generation that persists in eating refined foods, rather then whole foods with an emphasis on animal protein and fat, be it in the form of bugs and grubs, dairy and eggs or meat and lard, or a combo of several manifests a slow decline in "perfect" building blocks.
Narrow faces and crowded teeth are the norm now, and along with them, narrow pelvises in females.

During the first three years of a babies life, these things can be overcome if they have occurred.
We are adopting a little girl. not yet a year old, and we have reversed her severe under bite, and the teeth that she has coming in look excellent.

A man by the name of Pottenger found that it only takes 3 generations of cats fed a diet very low if not devoid of animal foods, to lose all ability to reproduce. And along the way, deformities were the norm.
It also takes 3 generations to fully reverse these issues as well.

Anyway, I could ramble on forever...
Here is a portion of Dr Prices book.
http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks02/0200251h.html
At least look at the pics :)

[gardenbelle]

That's awesome that she has great teeth.  This is all pretty new to me - I just had my first cavity last year at 33!  My son has beautiful teeth and we did fairly the same with him, minus the night feeding after about 12 months.  With our daughter, we didn't start brushing until we started solids at around 8-9 months and I wish we had started earlier. :-/

Originally Posted by alicewyf 

I have no idea what caused our daughter to not get tooth decay. She nursed at least once a night until she was 23 months old, when we nightweaned her. We were vigilant about brushing her teeth before she slept (both naps and bedtimes). She has never used flouride toothpaste, we alternate the Oral-B "toddler toothpaste" and Spry. She did not have juice or sugar AT ALL on a regular basis until she was around 2 yrs old. She fully weaned at 25 months and still has perfect teeth. I do think some of it is genetics--neither DH nor I have ever had a cavity. Honestly breastfeeding linked with tooth decay seems like a giant mystery to me.

Thanks so much for posting this.  Most of the threads I have found on the internet are very similar to my post - one person has experience with tooth decay in their breastfed baby and it is followed by many posts stating reasons why breast milk isn't the culprit.  It seems there are quite a few BF babies that have it unfortunately. :-/ I hope anyone who reads this will check their child's teeth for signs of cavities (dingy and dull teeth, divots, brown spots, etc) and take them into the dentist instead of assuming they couldn't have cavities because they are breastfed like I did.  I didn't think about brushing until my daughter started solids either (which wasn't until 8-9 months and she got her first tooth at 5 months).  I wish so badly that I brushed her teeth from the moment they came in; maybe this could have been avoided.  It's really good to hear that your daughter has healthy teeth now, that makes me feel better that my daughter won't be dealing with this for much longer. :)

Originally Posted by Shaki 

I'm not informed on the big picture issues that many posters are discussing (minerals and diet and all that). I just wanted to chime in and say my DD did have tooth decay and our pediatric dentist did assume night nursing was the cause, I told her weaning was not an option, so we treated the decay and kept on nursing. From a year old we've been vigilant with tooth brushing, flossing, fluoride treatments, and frequent dental visits. We were able to hold the decay in check without stopping our nightnursing. (She's 5 now, with healthy teeth.)

DD got teeth at 5 months and I had been told by many people not to worry about brushing until she was eating solids. Bad advice. I now think we should have started a tooth care routine when she got her first teeth. She's had more dental visits and procedures than should have had to have. I will be more vigilant with DS and I will still allow him to nurse at night for as long as we both want to.

Just sharing my experience in the hope that it's of some help to another nightnursing mama.

[BubblingBrooks]

Dr Price addressed the brushing issue. Most if not all the unreached areas never brushed.
And science today has proven that phytic acid, found in all grains, seeds and nuts is what causes cavitations.
If they are soaked, sprouted or fermented like our ancestors did, its not a problem.
Sugar affects the immune system and pancreas, and yes, soda is an issue for teeth, but its the acid in it, not the sugar.

[Shaki]

Originally Posted by gardenbelle 

Thanks so much for posting this.  Most of the threads I have found on the internet are very similar to my post - one person has experience with tooth decay in their breastfed baby and it is followed by many posts stating reasons why breast milk isn't the culprit.  It seems there are quite a few BF babies that have it unfortunately. :-/ I hope anyone who reads this will check their child's teeth for signs of cavities (dingy and dull teeth, divots, brown spots, etc) and take them into the dentist instead of assuming they couldn't have cavities because they are breastfed like I did.  I didn't think about brushing until my daughter started solids either (which wasn't until 8-9 months and she got her first tooth at 5 months).  I wish so badly that I brushed her teeth from the moment they came in; maybe this could have been avoided.  It's really good to hear that your daughter has healthy teeth now, that makes me feel better that my daughter won't be dealing with this for much longer. :)

I'm glad it was of some help.  My advice (in terms of pursuing healthy teeth going forward) Is find a pediatric dentist that you like an respect and who your DD feels comfy with. Which may take some time; DD did have to be held in my lap firmly--while crying--for her first dental visits. Her dentist was always, kind patient and understanding and now DD LOVES going to see her. I think you can tell alot about childrens health care providers, by observing how they handle a crying child. Patient and understanding while getting the job done quickly and thoroughly is what I'd look for. Our dentist gave us fluoride to apply to her teeth daily at home (applied directly to the decayed spots only, by a parent). And it was the fluoride that really stopped the decay. (I know that some people avoid using fluoride--we made an informed decision). All the best to you!

ETA: By the way my niece, also breastfed, co-sleeper, night nurser; has had similar decay issues.

Edited by Shaki - 11/19/11 at 11:21am

[Imakcerka]

Well to be honest here, I do believe if your child is predispositioned to tooth decay nursing all night will speed it along.  I have to two breastfed girls and only one got tooth decay.  As I didn't get my first cavity until I was 18 and DH had a mouthful by the time he was 5.  Both of my girls nursed at night and my diet was the same for both of them.  Honestly I don't vary much in my eating.  So I'm inclined to believe that it's possible.