Should you have your child tested ?

[jaylivg]

Do you have your gifted child tested for his/her IQ ?? and if so , what's your reason for doing this ?? And does getting the IQ test done help your child at school ? ( getting the educations that suits him ) Would the school be more co-operate with you in getting him what he needs ??

[FarmerBeth]

I guess this very much depends on your school.  Our school will offer higher level reading or math work and some enrichment for projects based on higher achievement with no IQ test requirement, so we didn't bother with IQ testing for our DD (who I am certain is gifted).  My 2E child was tested for learning disabilities, and we found out about the giftedness as a matter of course.  Many other places (especially in the US, from what I see in this forum) require formal IQ testing in order to provide any adaptations in terms of enrichment or above grade level work in a subject.  If I was in that situation, I might decide differently and test.

[jaylivg]

The school where my son goes now is a private school , they're the one who informed us that our son is gifted , and they put him in a pull out program 3 times a week for 45 minutes each for math ( supposed to be the same 1st grader math except it's a little challenging ) , and although his reading skill is at 5th grade level , they didn't do anything about it at all . Said they were going to give a different curriculum for him , because of his behaviour , maybe he was bored , not challenged enough , but it's been over 2.5 months and i really don't think 3x45 minutes is enough to accomodate his skills and abilities .

Just few days ago we had a meeting , and they decided that my son probably should go to 2nd grade reading class , and still be in the pull out program . Okay at least it's something .. but the problem is , that his behaviour at school isn't the greatest either , he would interrupts , make jokes ,  talks a lot , where all his friends would pay attention to him and they don't get their job done , while my son got his job done while talking and explaining to the rest of the class . So he's considered bothering the class , it doesn't effect his grades , but it effects other children in the classroom trying to learn .

He was also tested for adhd , but the doctor said he's not adhd . So my questions is .. should i have him tested for his IQ score , and maybe that way the school will do more .. than just pull out program 3x45 , and going to 2nd grader for reading class . He's very bright , but everybody probably think he's a trouble maker , and nobody will know that he's very smart .

[ollyoxenfree]

Originally Posted by jaylivg 

Do you have your gifted child tested for his/her IQ ?? and if so , what's your reason for doing this ?? And does getting the IQ test done help your child at school ? ( getting the educations that suits him ) Would the school be more co-operate with you in getting him what he needs ??

It's a good question and a common topic of discussion. Many parents will have their children assessed in order to get "proof" for schools, either for classroom/school accommodations or to get admitted to special programs. It isn't always necessary though. It wasn't in our case. Teachers accommodated my dc before they were assessed and had an "official" gifted identification. I think that school experiences will vary a great deal, depending on the philosophy and attitudes of the schools and teachers. Some are better than others about accommodating students, whether there are official test results or not. 

Eventually, my dc were assessed at a point when we considered whether to send them to a gifted program, so I would agree that getting an assessment helped them at school. It was one of the criteria (the main one, in fact) for admission to the program. We also would have found the information helpful, even if we hadn't opted for the gifted program.  

Unfortunately, some schools will not co-operate, even in the face of a gifted IQ test. They will have all sorts of excuses. In those situations, if the parents want to pursue the issue, then a gifted identification provides some good ammunition when parents advocate for their child.

If you are considering assessment, then it's a good idea to think about the purpose of testing. Most often, testing is needed to access special school programs. However, if you have questions about how your child learns and processes information, unusual or atypical learning styles, etc., then an assessment can help with those questions or concerns, even if you don't have any specific educational programs in mind. 

[jaylivg]

PS :

when i asked the school if my son needs to be tested , they said , no , because the score will only confirming things that they already knew about my son . And usually it wouldn't help with anything , except if the child has a learning disabilities then , the iq test would help . But they said , for gifted child , it's not going to do anything .

[jaylivg]

Originally Posted by ollyoxenfree 

It's a good question and a common topic of discussion. Many parents will have their children assessed in order to get "proof" for schools, either for classroom/school accommodations or to get admitted to special programs. It isn't always necessary though. It wasn't in our case. Teachers accommodated my dc before they were assessed and had an "official" gifted identification. I think that school experiences will vary a great deal, depending on the philosophy and attitudes of the schools and teachers. Some are better than others about accommodating students, whether there are official test results or not. 

Eventually, my dc were assessed at a point when we considered whether to send them to a gifted program, so I would agree that getting an assessment helped them at school. It was one of the criteria (the main one, in fact) for admission to the program. We also would have found the information helpful, even if we hadn't opted for the gifted program.  

Unfortunately, some schools will not co-operate, even in the face of a gifted IQ test. They will have all sorts of excuses. In those situations, if the parents want to pursue the issue, then a gifted identification provides some good ammunition when parents advocate for their child.

If you are considering assessment, then it's a good idea to think about the purpose of testing. Most often, testing is needed to access special school programs. However, if you have questions about how your child learns and processes information, unusual or atypical learning styles, etc., then an assessment can help with those questions or concerns, even if you don't have any specific educational programs in mind. 

Our son goes to a private school , and i don't really think they have a special class for gifted children . They do however do the pull out program for more advanced students , like i mentioned in the earlier post .

The thing i am concerned about is about his behaviour , although he is very bright , but he disrupts the class , and we're trying to figure out , is it because he's bored , maybe because it's not challenged enough for him . He's in 1st grade , and keeps complaining he knows this why should he keep doing it over and over again . I wonder if i should get him tested so that maybe he's allowed to skip grade .. but i am not sure either if that's such a good idea .. :( 

[serenbat]

The thing i am concerned about is about his behaviour , although he is very bright , but he disrupts the class , and we're trying to figure out , is it because he's bored , maybe because it's not challenged enough for him .

before you spend the money find out IF the school will even do anything with it

they might careless what he tests at and won't really move him and might not get anyplace

if they don't want to do testing-are the really going to do anything if you do?

[ollyoxenfree]

Originally Posted by jaylivg 

The school where my son goes now is a private school , they're the one who informed us that our son is gifted , and they put him in a pull out program 3 times a week for 45 minutes each for math ( supposed to be the same 1st grader math except it's a little challenging ) , and although his reading skill is at 5th grade level , they didn't do anything about it at all . Said they were going to give a different curriculum for him , because of his behaviour , maybe he was bored , not challenged enough , but it's been over 2.5 months and i really don't think 3x45 minutes is enough to accomodate his skills and abilities .

Just few days ago we had a meeting , and they decided that my son probably should go to 2nd grade reading class , and still be in the pull out program . Okay at least it's something .. but the problem is , that his behaviour at school isn't the greatest either , he would interrupts , make jokes ,  talks a lot , where all his friends would pay attention to him and they don't get their job done , while my son got his job done while talking and explaining to the rest of the class . So he's considered bothering the class , it doesn't effect his grades , but it effects other children in the classroom trying to learn .

He was also tested for adhd , but the doctor said he's not adhd . So my questions is .. should i have him tested for his IQ score , and maybe that way the school will do more .. than just pull out program 3x45 , and going to 2nd grader for reading class . He's very bright , but everybody probably think he's a trouble maker , and nobody will know that he's very smart .

Well, it sounds like the school recognizes that he's gifted and is willing to accommodate, so that's good news. But the specific accommodations need to be refined, and it can be a struggle to find the right kind of accommodations. Especially when there's such a gap between academic ability and emotional/social maturity. He may benefit from some social skills coaching, aside from any academic accommodations he gets. 

Reviewing and revising the curriculum is a good idea, but I'd probably discuss it with the school first before testing since they already seem to be on board with the concept of giving him more challenging work. I'd also request some accommodations to occupy him when he finishes his work early - possibly he could do a special project or go to a work station or get some library time. Cluster grouping with a few other bright and gifted students would probably be helpful, so he has a few peers to work with.

[ollyoxenfree]

Ack, I keep cross-posting with you, sorry. I hope this all makes sense. 

Originally Posted by jaylivg 

Our son goes to a private school , and i don't really think they have a special class for gifted children . They do however do the pull out program for more advanced students , like i mentioned in the earlier post .

The thing i am concerned about is about his behaviour , although he is very bright , but he disrupts the class , and we're trying to figure out , is it because he's bored , maybe because it's not challenged enough for him . He's in 1st grade , and keeps complaining he knows this why should he keep doing it over and over again . I wonder if i should get him tested so that maybe he's allowed to skip grade .. but i am not sure either if that's such a good idea .. :( 

Originally Posted by serenbat 

before you spend the money find out IF the school will even do anything with it

they might careless what he tests at and won't really move him and might not get anyplace

if they don't want to do testing-are the really going to do anything if you do?

Good advice to find out first what the school will do with the results of testing, particularly since they already acknowledge he's gifted. The school may have a policy against grade skipping. I suspect that concerns about his behaviour would weigh against him, even if the school has skipped other students. 

[jaylivg]

Originally Posted by serenbat 

before you spend the money find out IF the school will even do anything with it

they might careless what he tests at and won't really move him and might not get anyplace

if they don't want to do testing-are the really going to do anything if you do?

I did ask when we had the meeting if he needs to be tested , they said no ..

From what i am sensing , they're willing to do something with him , in fact i thought the principal was very supportive about my son . We're trying to figure out about his behaviour , early september , only 2 weeks after school started , the school had a meeting with us , and said they would give him a different curriculum , maybe it'll change his behaviour , but from what i see nothing much was done , only the pull out program for  3 times 45 minutes , and the majority time would still be spent in the regular class ,that would make up 95% of the time at school just bring in the regular class . So they said starts in nov 1st , they will let my son go to 2nd grade reading class ..

Maybe they can do something , maybe let him go to 2nd grade for math on top of reading too , if i get him tested ? I really don't mind getting him tested as long as the school will help his education . So far it seems like i am spending money by paying private school which is not that cheap either , and my son coming home from school saying he doesn't learn anything new .. Everytime i ask what did you learn , he would say oh the regular stuff .. he said this back in kindergarten too , but it's my fault i didn't sense it that he might just be bored learning things he already knew !!

Back in kindergarten he wasn't in so much trouble like he is right now in 1st grade .. what am i going to do with him . At home he does very well , but at school although his grades are excellent , but his behaviour is just unacceptable .. and that becomes a problem . I hate getting mad at him at the things he does at school such as not keeping hands to himself , or talking .. stuff like that ..

[jaylivg]

Originally Posted by ollyoxenfree 

Ack, I keep cross-posting with you, sorry. I hope this all makes sense. 

Good advice to find out first what the school will do with the results of testing, particularly since they already acknowledge he's gifted. The school may have a policy against grade skipping. I suspect that concerns about his behaviour would weigh against him, even if the school has skipped other students. 

His pediatrician where i took him for adhd test , suggested that the school do the grade skipping . But when we had the meeting few days ago , the school didn't mention about grade skipping and at that time , i thought i would just wait see what options they have for my son . Not once they mentioned about grade skipping .. and who knows maybe you're right , maybe it's because of my son's behaviour . I feel it might be the biggest reason ..

[serenbat]

Maybe they can do something , maybe let him go to 2nd grade for math on top of reading too , if i get him tested ?

if they know (and won't test) are they willing prior to you spending the money for something they say they already know?

if the behavior is the issue and it's not improving with what they are doing are they offering you anything else now?

I would ask right out if they will do a grade skip or not--some are willing others flat out won't no matter what he tests at

can they see an issue with his "behavior" and being bored? already knowing the work?

there is a vast difference between classroom behavior that is expected and being behind "socially" that would prevent him from being in another grade

also if he is tested and say is at a much higher grade level (not just IQ) and is skipped, are the willing to do additional pull outs?

ask for another meeting and get answers to all your questions prior to doing testing on your own, you might feel better if you can get more clear answers from the school as to long term needs 

IMO the "behavior" doesn't seem social to me--just boredom for the most part

[jaylivg]

Originally Posted by serenbat 

if they know (and won't test) are they willing prior to you spending the money for something they say they already know?

if the behavior is the issue and it's not improving with what they are doing are they offering you anything else now?

I would ask right out if they will do a grade skip or not--some are willing others flat out won't no matter what he tests at

can they see an issue with his "behavior" and being bored? already knowing the work?

there is a vast difference between classroom behavior that is expected and being behind "socially" that would prevent him from being in another grade

also if he is tested and say is at a much higher grade level (not just IQ) and is skipped, are the willing to do additional pull outs?

ask for another meeting and get answers to all your questions prior to doing testing on your own, you might feel better if you can get more clear answers from the school as to long term needs 

IMO the "behavior" doesn't seem social to me--just boredom for the most part

Thank you so much for your advice !!! i will ask for another meeting and i am going to write down what you told me to ask :) Thanks again , really appreciate it !!

[joensally]

Originally Posted by jaylivg 

PS :

when i asked the school if my son needs to be tested , they said , no , because the score will only confirming things that they already knew about my son . And usually it wouldn't help with anything , except if the child has a learning disabilities then , the iq test would help . But they said , for gifted child , it's not going to do anything .

The bolded sounds very ignorant on the part of the school.  There's something known as levels of giftedness, and knowing where a child falls on this continuum can inform decision making.  Also, gifted kids can have learning differences, and a full psych ed (including IQ and achievement tests) may illustrate this.

What testing did the pediatrician do?

IMO, a child's success in school relates to many variables, including:

• orientation of the school (ie montessori doesn't work for all kids; rigid, lock-step academics doesn't work for some kids, etc)
• skills and biases of the individual teacher
• child temperament
• child's level of giftedness
• any learning differences
• any uncommon features of learning style
• executive functioning
• maturity
• flexibility

Have you looked at other schooling options?

If your son is very, very gifted, minor shifts in curriculum may not be sufficient.  On the other hand, there may be something else going on besides giftedness that leads to the behaviour. 

It also makes sense that grade 1 might be harder for him to behave/comply in than kindergarten was if there's more seat work and formal academics.

[jaylivg]

Originally Posted by joensally 

The bolded sounds very ignorant on the part of the school.  There's something known as levels of giftedness, and knowing where a child falls on this continuum can inform decision making.  Also, gifted kids can have learning differences, and a full psych ed (including IQ and achievement tests) may illustrate this.

What testing did the pediatrician do?

IMO, a child's success in school relates to many variables, including:

• orientation of the school (ie montessori doesn't work for all kids; rigid, lock-step academics doesn't work for some kids, etc)
• skills and biases of the individual teacher
• child temperament
• child's level of giftedness
• any learning differences
• any uncommon features of learning style
• executive functioning
• maturity
• flexibility

Have you looked at other schooling options?

If your son is very, very gifted, minor shifts in curriculum may not be sufficient.  On the other hand, there may be something else going on besides giftedness that leads to the behaviour. 

It also makes sense that grade 1 might be harder for him to behave/comply in than kindergarten was if there's more seat work and formal academics.

That day when we had meeting , the school ( principal and teacher ) said that even if i get him tested , it only going to show the scores , and confirming what they already knew about our son . And then the principal looked at the teacher , and said " right ? based on your experience , it's not going to do anything .. is it ? " She said " no .. unless it's a learning disabilities "

Our teacher is a new teacher in this school , but she used to work at a public school and she has a 7 years of teaching experience and also 3 years of being a school counselor . So , from what i understand the school is willing to do something , but also that it's not going to change too much of anything as far as having a gifted class or etc .

And it is a very minor changes that my son has , ever since we were told he's gifted early september , he only has a pull out program which is only enrichment , because it still teaches 1st grade math except they said it's more challenging way .. so i don't know .. and this does not seem to help . Like i said 3 times 45 and the rest of the time he's doing the regular class .

We're sending him to a private school because our public school isn't the greatest to tell you the truth ( i wish i had known this before moving to this area , we were from out of state that time ) , the public school that we're supposed to go is pretty bad , they have 2nd grader bringing weapon to school , or 3rd grader who still doesn't know how to read .. now i don't want to send my son to that school because i know he's smart , and i want him to progress with school not regressing . I would like to see what this school can provide to our son first before decided to find and look for other school that can accomodates him the proper education .

[whatsnextmom]

I can only speak for myself. My eldest wasn't tested until age 12. Our district accommodated her based on her proven abilities (including grade acceleration, subject accelerations, differentiation, course and GATE placement.) Her high school would accept nothing BUT scores though (different district.) Our district was kind enough to test even though she was on her way out and no one was surprised with the results. We passed the scores along to the high school and she's all "legal" in their eyes. My youngest was tested in 2nd grade as a formality as he was getting services prior to that.

Testing certainly has it's place. If there are viable options that require testing, look into it. Do your research though. Private testing can be very expensive (around a grand in our area.) Not all schools accept all tests. Some won't even look at your private scores and only accept scores on tests that they personally give. You hate to shell out that money only to find the school of interest won't consider them.

[whatsnextmom]

Originally Posted by jaylivg 

 they have 2nd grader bringing weapon to school , or 3rd grader who still doesn't know how to read .. now i don't want to send my son to that school because i know he's smart , and i want him to progress with school not regressing . I would like to see what this school can provide to our son first before decided to find and look for other school that can accomodates him the proper education .

You really need to take this information with a grain of salt. A paring knife is considered a "weapon" in a zero tolerance environment. Little kids have gotten in trouble for bringing such items to cut-up their apples. I had a little kid bring a BB gun to camp (also considered a weapon) because he thought it was cool, wanted to show his friends and had was totally overwhelmed and confused by the reaction it got from adults. A 3rd grader who can't read has nothing to do with your own child. My eldest went all the way through elementary with a girl in her class who could barely read. She had severe learning disabilities yes but she was also a bright and delightful child. She was only ever a good friend to DD, never a burden and certainly never caused my own child to regress.

[joensally]

Have you seen hoagiesgifted.org?  Lots of info there.  Also the Davidson gifted site.  The James T Webb books are also good.  Prufrock Press also has great resources.

I would only pay for testing privately if I could afford it and believed that it would make a difference with what the school would do for my child.  If the school sees small amounts of differentiation as the full extent of what they can do, I don't think test results would change that. 

Have you asked them what they think the behaviour is about?  And what approaches they will take?  If they're pure behaviourists (ie punitive as their first/only approach) and aren't going to look at underlying reasons, you may have ongoing problems.  It sounds like the accomodations they've made to date are not the solution for your son.

We found testing results extremely informative, but we're also working with an under-resourced school system that needed the push of seeing the results on paper that confirmed what we/they could see about the child.

[jaylivg]

Originally Posted by joensally 

Have you seen hoagiesgifted.org?  Lots of info there.  Also the Davidson gifted site.  The James T Webb books are also good.  Prufrock Press also has great resources.

I would only pay for testing privately if I could afford it and believed that it would make a difference with what the school would do for my child.  If the school sees small amounts of differentiation as the full extent of what they can do, I don't think test results would change that. 

Have you asked them what they think the behaviour is about?  And what approaches they will take?  If they're pure behaviourists (ie punitive as their first/only approach) and aren't going to look at underlying reasons, you may have ongoing problems.  It sounds like the accomodations they've made to date are not the solution for your son.

We found testing results extremely informative, but we're also working with an under-resourced school system that needed the push of seeing the results on paper that confirmed what we/they could see about the child.

Yes , i've been to those sites and yes it's very informative .

The behaviour problem that he has is like interrupting , or shouting / blurting out answer out of turn , talking , and just like today just being silly counting by 10 , he would count by 100's , just to be funny . Or he would pat his friends , hugging each other because they're too excited for something , or another time , he would cut in line going to the bathrooms , he would talk and the whole class would put off their assignments and listening to my son what he has to say , my son gets his jobs done still , but not the rest of the class . Then he would fall out of his chair on purpose , complains the assignments were too easy , sulking because he has to wait for the rest of the class to move on to the next page .. These are the behaviour that he gets in trouble for .

Last month they said that they would give him a different curriculum , but we haven't seen that , except for the fact that they did pull out program on math 3 times 45 minutes a week . When my son acts up he would lose 5 minutes recess all the way up to losing the whole recess . The school themselves said it might be because he's bored , but yet they haven't done what they said they would . Now they said that they are going to allow him to 2nd grade reading class .. and see how he behaves then . Even though i think he can skip grade , but it could be that his misbehaviour stops him from being accelerated .. we don't know for sure about this either .

[serenbat]

 The school themselves said it might be because he's bored , but yet they haven't done what they said they would . Now they said that they are going to allow him to 2nd grade reading class .. and see how he behaves then . Even though i think he can skip grade , but it could be that his misbehavior stops him from being accelerated .. we don't know for sure about this either .

ask them why? 

sounds like this is more the school not taking the necessary steps to control his "misbehavior" and I would worry a bit if the say he can't be skipped and blame it on his quote "behavior" instead of addressing the boredom issues

if you feel he can be skipped, push for it----things can be reversed (doesn't mean you have to say that up-front!!)-don't give them an easy way out, request and if they say no- ask what they will do instead because what is not being done now is not working

you may be dealing with a school that is afraid others will request the same thing instead of actually addressing where he really is at academically