Should you have your child tested ? - Page 2

[jaylivg]

That's why me and my husband been talking about it , why don't they try to fix what causes it , what causing the behaviour . We're thinking boredom .. don't you think so ? Most of the thing he does is silly stuff .. he jokes , then he would keep touching his friends , then blurting out answer that the question hasn't finished yet .. or talk out of turn , or like earlier , he got in trouble because the class was supposed to do counting by 10's and he went on to count by 100's and he had to move his bee up ( closer to the hive = trouble ) , yesterday his hand was on other student , and that's trouble too ..

[joensally]

You might look at executive function (impulse control and other issues) for strategies to help him manage himself.  I really like the book Smart but Scattered, and it includes descriptions of what you'd expect to see at different developmental levels.  It may simply be his individual response to "boredom," and/or he could need help self-regulating.

[jaylivg]

Originally Posted by joensally 

You might look at executive function (impulse control and other issues) for strategies to help him manage himself.  I really like the book Smart but Scattered, and it includes descriptions of what you'd expect to see at different developmental levels.  It may simply be his individual response to "boredom," and/or he could need help self-regulating.

I am checking the book right now , thanks for the information !

[ollyoxenfree]

Originally Posted by joensally 

You might look at executive function (impulse control and other issues) for strategies to help him manage himself.  I really like the book Smart but Scattered, and it includes descriptions of what you'd expect to see at different developmental levels.  It may simply be his individual response to "boredom," and/or he could need help self-regulating.

That's the sort of thing I had in mind when I mentioned social skills.

Since he seemed to have less trouble in kindergarten, what do you think worked then? Did he have a better peer group, students who aren't in his class this year? Was he allowed to be more self-directed in his choice of activities? It might be worthwhile to speak with his kindergarten teacher and get his/her insight too. 

[jaylivg]

Originally Posted by ollyoxenfree 

That's the sort of thing I had in mind when I mentioned social skills.

Since he seemed to have less trouble in kindergarten, what do you think worked then? Did he have a better peer group, students who aren't in his class this year? Was he allowed to be more self-directed in his choice of activities? It might be worthwhile to speak with his kindergarten teacher and get his/her insight too. 

I was thinking the same thing actually about asking her kindergarten teacher , but then again during the kindergarten though they're less structure , so that's probably why .. Although it's not a bad idea just to ask . Thanks !!

Speaking about the executive skills , i just looked it up last night , he does really having a trouble controlling his anger , if he's mad  you can tell he's mad , he wouldn't hide it , but things like organizing things , he is very organized , for example , on saturdays , i only i have to tell him he needs to clean his bedroom and he would watch his cartoon usually until 10 and then he goes to his bedroom and cleans . Although it takes an hour to 1.5 hours to clean up because he has lots and lots of lego stuff on the shelves , he gets it done , the only help i give him while doing his bedroom is dusting the shelves , but he organizes everything . He would get his homework done within minutes , usually right after school i said to get his homework done and he gets it done i don't need to help him , 95% of the time he just works on it without my help .

So does it sound like he has executive skills problem ??

[jaylivg]

Another thing about executive skills , people with executive skills problem would be hard memorizing things , right ?

My son is really good with memorizing anything , we have a bible verse to recite every week during kindergarten and he always gets it done perfectly , during 1st grade they only do it once a month , except it's a long verse , he memorized The Lord's prayer after only reading it 2-3 times the night before . The next morning , he asked me if i want to hear him recite it , and i said sure .. and he got it all perfect .

He gets his school work done at school or at home , although he talks a lot or being silly and stuff , he gets his job done for sure . But that's the thing everybody else in the class get so distracted and listening to him , my son gets everything done , but the rest of the kids didn't get the job done cos of my son ! And also usually the night before he gets his book bag and get everything ready , or before swimming practice , i would just tell him it's time to get ready and he gets everything in the bag himself , no problem . So far the only thing that i can see him being weak is , that he is having a hard time to control his emotion . When he's mad he would scream and then he would run to his bedroom , he probably would throw his comforter on the floor ( in the past this is what he did .. until i said if he throw anything on the floor when he's mad , i am taking it away , one time he threw his comforter on the floor and he slept without it , so he doesn't do it anymore ) but you can tell from his facial expression when he's really mad .

[ollyoxenfree]

So does it sound like he has executive skills problem ??

I'd hesitate to pathologize it as a problem and I apologize if I've made you think that way. Developing executive function is an ongoing process for all children. He's 6 or 7 y.o, right? It's important to keep expectations reasonable for that age. It's just tough when there is a big gap between academic ability and behaviour. Particularly when a child is academically advanced, there's often an (unfair) expectation that emotional maturity, behaviour and social ability will also be advanced. That's what asynchronous development is about - advanced in one area but not in others. But since there seems to be a gap and it's interfering at school, it may help to work with him to develop those skills and abilities. 

In your son's case, it isn't possible for me, a stranger, to say whether his behaviour would improve if he had more challenging schoolwork. That may be the case. I definitely agree that he should be given work appropriate for his abilities and be kept engaged while at school. In addition, finding him a few peers to work with and giving him appropriate alternative activities are some tactics to try to help the situation. In the meantime, helping him develop some self-regulation will also be beneficial. 

[jaylivg]

Originally Posted by ollyoxenfree 

I'd hesitate to pathologize it as a problem and I apologize if I've made you think that way. Developing executive function is an ongoing process for all children. He's 6 or 7 y.o, right? It's important to keep expectations reasonable for that age. It's just tough when there is a big gap between academic ability and behaviour. Particularly when a child is academically advanced, there's often an (unfair) expectation that emotional maturity, behaviour and social ability will also be advanced. That's what asynchronous development is about - advanced in one area but not in others. But since there seems to be a gap and it's interfering at school, it may help to work with him to develop those skills and abilities. 

In your son's case, it isn't possible for me, a stranger, to say whether his behaviour would improve if he had more challenging schoolwork. That may be the case. I definitely agree that he should be given work appropriate for his abilities and be kept engaged while at school. In addition, finding him a few peers to work with and giving him appropriate alternative activities are some tactics to try to help the situation. In the meantime, helping him develop some self-regulation will also be beneficial. 

No , actually i should be thankful i learned more things from people on this board . I was just wondering if that was considered a problem with the executive skills , i was just giving some examples and maybe some people can help me figure out :)

I have read about asynchronous too , and at times it does feel that way , yes my son is 6 years old , but sometimes it doesn't seem like he's 6 , when i see him with phy his friends , he does get along well , but i can see his friends who just turned 7 last month seems much much more mature than him , but at times my son can be mature too . For example , he can say things like " i don't like it when people say hurtful things to you mom , because even though they don't say it to me , but it hurts me , because you're my mom "

On another occasion he drew earth when he was told by his teacher what would he consider a blessing in his life . So there are times where he can be mature for his age but there are also plenty of times that i consider him not mature enough for his age .

Wonder if consulting to a children's psychologist about this might help ?? what do you think ???

[joensally]

EF skills are generally in 8 domains, and a kid who is struggling to develop just one of them can still be really struggling in busy classroom spaces.  All kids (and many adults!) are still developing their EF skills, so it's not a matter of pathologizing a child, but rather to say "Billy really struggles in ___ environments, and some of the ways that help him manage include ____, and these are some specific strategies: ____."   My son has EF challenges, which we really don't see too much at home where he's comfortable, but we do see them at school where he's more challenged to self-regulate.  In DS's case, it's boredom, frustration with written output, and sensory issues.  We're trying to adapt the environment to him as much as possible, but there are limits to how far that will go, and so we're working on helping him learn to adapt to his environment.

My daughter used to attend school with a boy who is PG and good at just about everything.  He is happy in age-based grade placement because he has a very flexible temperament, excellent self-regulation skills, and his parents taught him all kinds of strategies to keep himself out of trouble, plus it's a slightly different from the norm school.  My daughter grew to hate that school because she doesn't have an easy going temperament and it just didn't fit her.  I would never place DS there as it would clearly not fit him.

In your son's case as you describe it, I see problems with chalking all of this up to his being bored.  The first is that if it's more than just boredom, waiting on the school to get it together is time you're losing on working on your child's self-regulation skills.  Having good self-regulation skills is a gift, and even if it's just boredom, you can't lose building EF skills.  Another problem is that you're stuck waiting on the school, and who knows how long they may take to figure this out (what if subject acceleration isn't sufficient, and he's still acting up out of boredom?).  He's getting into patterns of behaviour.  Are there consequences either at home or school for being disruptive?  Are they offering him alternative activities that he can do in the classroom when he's finished his work?

[serenbat]

In your son's case as you describe it, I see problems with chalking all of this up to his being bored.  The first is that if it's more than just boredom, waiting on the school to get it together is time you're losing on working on your child's self-regulation skills.  Having good self-regulation skills is a gift, and even if it's just boredom, you can't lose building EF skills.  Another problem is that you're stuck waiting on the school, and who knows how long they may take to figure this out (what if subject acceleration isn't sufficient, and he's still acting up out of boredom?).  He's getting into patterns of behaviour.  Are there consequences either at home or school for being disruptive?  Are they offering him alternative activities that he can do in the classroom when he's finished his work?

exactly!

first you really don't know what is causing the "issues" but you do know the school is not doing enough at this point

push for a meeting and go in armed and as prepared as you can be, make lists and go over it decide what you see as issues and what they see, what you want to see and how best to make it happen, and bring what ever you have from you ped so that they just don't dismiss all of this and just say it's all ADHD

try and talk with the kindergarden teacher, was there disruptive behavior? what are her thoughts?

is there another 1st grade class at the school? another teacher? 

[jaylivg]

Yes , we do rewards ,which is not working , we do punishments , which is not working either when he's misbehave at school . We used to make him write as a punishment , but then i thought that wouldn't be a good thing , cos then he would grow to hate writings .. So we tried rewarding him , i have a star system , when he's doing well excellent behaviour at school then he gets 2 stars , and when he reaches 5 stars he can get something a toy for example or a book whatever , and his long term goal is to get DS , so we set up 50 stars , when he reaches 50 stars then he gets a DS . I am not trying to set my goal for him to excellent everyday at school , i know it's kinda impossible for now , so when he only gets 1 warning , moving his bee only once i still give him 1 star , but when he gets 2 warnings ( losing 5 minutes recess ) i would not reward him anything . He doesn't get to play games or watch tv either , so on the days where he gets yellow or red ( losing all recess ), all he can do at home would be just reading or drawing or writing stories .. whatever between those 3 activities . At school his teacher is working on self monitoring system , such as raising hands before saying anything , keeping handa and feet to himself , he does well when she's doing 1 behaviour / week , but when she started doing 3-4 behaviours at a time per week , it's not working so well . He gets rewards when he reaches his behaviour goals .

Now the teacher said if he's being disruptive in class , talking too much etc , she would have to move him to the class next door , he would still be doing the same work , but he will have to be moved ,as his punishment / time out . She's only been doing this 2 times and he hates it . His teacher said maybe right now since all the rewards isn't working , maybe she's going to go the other way , the negative enforcement . He would be embarrass having to sit in the other classroom as his time out , but then again to me , he's going to be called trouble maker and bad kid by everybody .

As far as letting him working on something else after he's done with his job , i asked his teacher if she wouldn't mind if i send him to school with a book that he could work on while waiting . She said she doesn't mind . I really don't mind buying him books that he needs , and i told her that , so i bought the book for him and i will be sending the book with him , so when he gets free time instead of bugging other kids and being disruptive , i hope he can work on it .

You are right about losing the time , that's how i feel , he already spent almost 2 months not gaining anything from school . I am working with him at home still, working on some challenging stuff . So that his ability doesn't stop right here , i want him to progress , as long as he is willing and able to learn new stuff .. why should i stop him from doing that . Even if it means i have to do it with him at home , i really don't mind . I just wish the school would do something quick .. now , the school said nov 1st , my son can start going to the 2nd grade reading class , i guess it's because nov 1st is the start of 2nd quarter . Now we have to wait 2 more weeks .. wait and see .. again ..

[jaylivg]

Originally Posted by serenbat 

exactly!

first you really don't know what is causing the "issues" but you do know the school is not doing enough at this point

push for a meeting and go in armed and as prepared as you can be, make lists and go over it decide what you see as issues and what they see, what you want to see and how best to make it happen, and bring what ever you have from you ped so that they just don't dismiss all of this and just say it's all ADHD

try and talk with the kindergarden teacher, was there disruptive behavior? what are her thoughts?

is there another 1st grade class at the school? another teacher? 

I just emailed his kindergarten teacher this morning , but i haven't go any reply yet .

There are 2 other 1st grade classes .

[jaylivg]

Another thing .. it's like a bad day everyday , my son feels the same way , from losing recess for 5 minutes or losing the whole recess altogether . This happens at school , not to mention being punished at home from that too . I am tired just to get mad at him everyday too because of his behaviour at school and i am sure he feels the same way . What should i do ?? Should i just let it go ? but if i let go , doesn't it mean like i am saying it's okay to behave that way at school ??

[joensally]

The fact that consequences aren't working indicates that this is not a small problem for him.    Poor guy. 

I would talk to the kindie teacher.  Try to figure out what variables are different from last year to this year - how much seat work, how much free play/choosing time, how much writing, how much differentiated instruction, how much art etc etc etc.  Talk to this year's teacher about how the class is run to explore these differences.  If you come away from the kindie teacher with a strong sense that this really is different behaviour (as opposed to just louder/busier, but really the same behaviour), go to this year's teacher with that information.  If she isn't full of great, dynamic ideas, go to the principal and make your case. 

[pianojazzgirl]

Your son sounds just like me at around that age, until I skipped a grade.  I would finish all my work in no time and then talk loudly with (to) my friends.  It was definitely a boredom issue.

[jaylivg]

Originally Posted by pianojazzgirl 

Your son sounds just like me at around that age, until I skipped a grade.  I would finish all my work in no time and then talk loudly with (to) my friends.  It was definitely a boredom issue.

So i take after you skipped grade , you behaved a lot better , right ?