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post #61 of 99

Your kids should get to say "no."  And you should ask the kids to leave your property if they are behaving inappropriately and refuse to stop.  Eventually the kids will find their way, or maybe not.  However I do not believe it is your responsibility to facilitate their personal success.  If you have a heart for them and want to help them, do.

 

It would be kind of you and your kids to include them sometimes, and kind of you to find ways to help them moderate their behavior when they are with your kids, as long as they listen and obey.  

 

 

post #62 of 99

I'm confused.  If the problem is that these kids are behaving extraordinarily badly, then why didn't you tell their mom that when she came to you asking why they were being excluded?  The comment about them not coming out every day so as not to disturb the existing friendships strikes me as BS, and probably felt the same way to the other mom.  If there are 25 kids in the neighborhood "gang" now, did you expect kids #24 & 25 to only come out twice a week so they didn't disturb the existing friendships?  I've never heard of such a rule, it seems pretty odd to me.  If your kids wanted to play with like one special friend on a particular day, I could understand that, but if these boys are being excluded from a group of 25 kids running around, that's pretty mean.

 

If they're being mean, then I think it's totally acceptable for a mom to go out and say "hey, that's not ok, you need to stop doing that" and if the behavior doesn't stop, to send them home (or away from your home).  But if that's what's happening, the mom needs to know that.

post #63 of 99

The problem from what I have read is

 

-The new kids behave differently

-The new kids are being excluded by the rest of the neighbor kids due to the fact that they're different.  (could be their behavior, could be    because they're new...)

-New mom is upset and wants her kids to fit in.

-OP, not sympathetic.    I say you're not sympathetic because you have spoken poorly about the entire family and made assumptions before you got to know them.  Ridiculing them for their home purchase.  Who cares if it sells or not.  The market is changing.  So that is non of your concern.

 

I understand why you felt it necessary to throw out that they were adopted, sometimes it's hard to gauge what a child has really gone through and you can't always tell if their lives were traumatic or pretty normal.  However it's still sounds terrible to say it.   It is true that some adopted kids can have behavioral problems... Just as it's true that a Good Mama, can raise a bully and a brat without being able to blame someone else. 

 

I've had neighbors that make me want to run for the hills.  And instead of being part of the neighborhood clique I tolerated their different behavior and I made a strong effort to be "GOOD" and "FAIR".   When I say tolerated, I mean I dealt with strippers and the fundies without being rude and always treated them with respect.  Because get this... ready?  THEY ARE PEOPLE!  With feelings and emotions. Just trying to find a good place to raise their family.  And it sounds like to me they struck out. 

post #64 of 99
Thread Starter 

The day in question was not a day they were behaving badly.  She was upset when she confronted me, so the last thing I wanted to do was point out her kids' failings.  And just to clarify, there are a total of 25 kids on the street.  That includes babies, toddlers and kids who are in aftercare because their parents work.  So the really issue is every afternoon during the week, and that includes 4-5 families, 3-4 older boys.  Just to add to the picture because I totally agree that on days when there are 10-15 kids running all over, no one is telling this family to go home.  But when it is my kids and one or two other families, we've wanted to.  But have been too polite or meek or whatever to do so.  That's why the guideline of having a "private" playdate when it's one other family is so helpful.  We need some guidelines!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGirls View Post

I'm confused.  If the problem is that these kids are behaving extraordinarily badly, then why didn't you tell their mom that when she came to you asking why they were being excluded?  The comment about them not coming out every day so as not to disturb the existing friendships strikes me as BS, and probably felt the same way to the other mom.  If there are 25 kids in the neighborhood "gang" now, did you expect kids #24 & 25 to only come out twice a week so they didn't disturb the existing friendships?  I've never heard of such a rule, it seems pretty odd to me.  If your kids wanted to play with like one special friend on a particular day, I could understand that, but if these boys are being excluded from a group of 25 kids running around, that's pretty mean.

 

If they're being mean, then I think it's totally acceptable for a mom to go out and say "hey, that's not ok, you need to stop doing that" and if the behavior doesn't stop, to send them home (or away from your home).  But if that's what's happening, the mom needs to know that.



 

post #65 of 99

As the parent of a child that is always excluded, it saddens me that no one wants to play with these 2 kids.  Can you have a one on one with the mom and maybe talk to her about the kid's behavior and why the others aren't wanting to play?   It is in a child's nature to seek out play buddies, so it isn't unusual to me that they are there the minute they see someone outside.  My son does the exact same thing.  See if the mom can come down and supervise the play while her kids are there so she can see what is going on.

 

My son is socially immature but a very good kid, yet the neighbor kids don't want to play with him.  They pick on him, the exclude him, they will play with him for 1 hour and the next decide he isn't good enough for them.  It saddens me because he comes home crying and upset, calling himself an idiot or a dummy or whatever it may be.  It's very upsetting so I can see why this mom was upset.  Talk to her, get to know her and her children.  Most likely she is feeling just as isolated as her kids.  There is nothing wrong with her kids be socially immature, they need to be given a chance, even if takes a while to see improvement.

post #66 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by elus0814 View Post

I do understand that it would be perceived as exclusionary - it is exclusionary - but that's life, you don't always get to do exactly what you want when you want. I do think that being exclusionary can sometimes help other kids to understand that they have to play nice or other kids won't want them around. When you always include everyone no matter how they behave or treat others then those kids don't have any incentive to be nice, not whine about what game is being played, not throw rocks at other kids, and so on. 

 

IMO you have it backwards. Kids as described in the OP, who are included and are shown kindly what the expected behaviours are, will be more likely, ime, to live up to them. Excluding them in the way you propose gives them no incentive to try to be kind as they haven't been shown any kindness or compassion and it ups the stakes. Why not start from the premise that kids are doing the best they have with what they are at the time and help them (and your kids) understand the implications of our choices.  At the very least I want to teach my kids that responding with kindness and compassion, even while stating their own needs and boundaries will always leave their dignity intact.

post #67 of 99

Man, this thread is a bummer. I'm glad that I don't live on that block.

post #68 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by berry987 View Post

I live on a very similar kind of street - lots of kids, they all run around together, parents popping in here and there to check in, but for the most part, they are unsupervised (my oldest kids are 5 and almost 7). There are occasional clashes with other parents and kids on the block because, although most of us are on the same page, there are some parents who parent very differently and that can cause problems when issues come up between the kids. I think it's a blessing and a curse - great that my kids have friends available around the clock with no formal playdates needed, great that I have a couple of very good friends on the block (other moms) and we support each other and enjoy each others company. But bad because I can't socialize with these other moms who I am very close to without inevitably another parent coming over who I don't care for very much and joining in, bad because sometimes my kids want to play with one kid and they have five running around with them. Very social, but very little privacy. Our yards are very public places (the houses are close together, no one has fences, we have an alley in the back so there are no driveways, just endless yards). So, my point is that there are good and bad things and I've come to try and take the good with the bad. We could move to a true suburb with 1.5 acres and fence in our yard and let our kids choose when and with whom to play and I could choose when I want to socialize and when I just want to stand in my yard, drinking a cup of coffee without chatting with a neighbor. But we'd miss out on all the good stuff too.

 

And in your situation, the new family is just a snag in the neighborhood dynamic - the perfect balance that you liked before wasn't going to last forever even if no one new moved in. Kids change, their relationships change, etc. Personally, I'd talk to my own kids about being nice and including the new kids (because, really, it only takes a few weeks for the "new" kid to be part of the gang). Old, established friendships aren't exactly set in stone in childhood - your kids should have plenty of room for new ones. It does sound sad for the new kids - so excited to find a bunch of kids and now no one wants to play with them. 


This is such an excellent post. thumb.gif
post #69 of 99
happytears.gifhug.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightOwlwithowlet View Post

Setting boundaries about hitting and swearing is cool.  The rest of your post reeks of cliquey exclusion.  Do you know how difficult life is for kids who are different?  Probably not.  I'm guessing you have never cried tears of joy because your kid was invited to birthday party.  Or had your heart fill with joy because a neighbor kid knocked on the door and asked "Can Joey come out and play?"

 

I would die for the girl who lives next door because she was my son's first friend.  She was the first kid to knock on the door.  She made the other kids play with him.  Now, he hits the front door the minute the school bus pulls up, scooter in hand to play with his friends.  My son got into a fist fight with two boys three years older defending her and another kid over racial slurs.  I'm proud that he makes friends with kids who are younger, older, of a different race, and have disabilities.  

 

The mom cried.  Send her to my house, we will drink some wine, the kids can play, and I'll wipe her tears because I have been there. 

post #70 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adaline'sMama View Post

You just.arent.getting.it.
When are you going to understand that these kids that want to come and play with your kids ARE "the neighborhood kids." Or do you really mean to say:
"I think it feels unfair to the in crowd of neighborhood kids."??
Um...yes. They have to include the new kids everyday if they are outside and the new kids are outside.
Its not a big pill to swallow. You know what, I dont think this would even be an issue in a neighborhood that wasnt upper class. Go visit an urban neighborhood for one day and then come back and reevaluate your opinion. Just because you own expensive houses doesnt mean you dont own outside too. If you dont want your kids to have to play with the new kids, have them play in the fenced in back yard or in the house. Period.
By the way, saying that three of your kids friends are adopted sounds about like saying, "Im not racist, one of my best friends is black."

YES! nod.gif
post #71 of 99

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adaline'sMama View Post

When are you going to understand that these kids that want to come and play with your kids ARE "the neighborhood kids." Or do you really mean to say:
"I think it feels unfair to the in crowd of neighborhood kids."??
Um...yes. They have to include the new kids everyday if they are outside and the new kids are outside.
Its not a big pill to swallow. You know what, I dont think this would even be an issue in a neighborhood that wasnt upper class. Go visit an urban neighborhood for one day and then come back and reevaluate your opinion. Just because you own expensive houses doesnt mean you dont own outside too. If you dont want your kids to have to play with the new kids, have them play in the fenced in back yard or in the house.
 
I'm confused as to why you think the only feelings worth considering are those of the new kids. What about the feelings of the "in crowd", don't they have the right to decide if they want to include kids who aren't being nice to them? It not as though they never included the new kids. It's ridiculous to say they have to give the new kids endless chances to prove themselves, this is why most people make it a point to tell their children to make a good first impression. 
The simple reality is that no, the OP and her children do not have to include children they don't like in their play. I think she's been beyond neighborly by giving kids who throw rocks at her kids and barge into her house more than one chance.
The point you try to make about the OP living in an upper class neighborhood doesn't makes much sense. Why does it matter how kids would play in a lower class neighborhood, she doesn't live there. If you own an expensive house, or any house, then you do own your yard and it's your decision whom you allow on your property.
post #72 of 99
Thread Starter 

Coming back to this thread after a day or so.  So interesting to hear the various responses.  People have either been the new neighbors, or they have been the old neighbors, and their opinions vary based on their own experience.  I appreciate the different perspectives.  As much as some of the PPs want to dismiss me as an elitist snob *I really am not one.*  I am a nice woman and mother.  I hugged the mother twice during our exchange.  Once for a minute or two, and rubbed her back.  If I wanted to blow her and her family off, believe me, I could do it.  I wouldn't be on here looking for advice.  Please try to give me the benefit of the doubt, as you're asking me to do with her and her kids, and adjust your tone accordingly.  Kind of funny to be virtually yelled at to be nicer to a stranger, by strangers who aren't being very nice to me.

 

Thanks for supportive/constructive comments. This whole thread has been enormously helpful to me and has really changed the way I am viewing the whole situation.  The mom has been laying low since that bad day when she confronted me.  I haven't seen her or her kids (except in passing so I do know they are physically OK).  And I am worried about her.  I have been walking down to check on her but have not encountered her yet.  I might not have been doing so if all of you hadn't helped me see this differently.  So thanks. 

post #73 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunflower.mama View Post

Kind of funny to be virtually yelled at to be nicer to a stranger, by strangers who aren't being very nice to me.

 


She's your new neighbor, not a stranger you pass by or an anon internet poster.

 

Quote:

The mom has been laying low since that bad day when she confronted me.  I haven't seen her or her kids (except in passing so I do know they are physically OK).  And I am worried about her.

 

Thought this might happen. crap.gif

post #74 of 99
Elus0814,
I cant quote you because of the way you quoted me and all the bolding you did, but this is in response mainly to your assertion that the OP is being " beyond neighborly" for giving these kids a second chance.

They are KIDS. You give them second, third, fourth, and tenth chances. They are CHILDREN who are learning and growing, not adults who have formed personalities. The idea that children should have to make a good first impression for them to be accepted by the adults in the neighborhood is absolutely absurd to me. I believe you to be a slightly awful person if you dont allow children second chances, especially if you know that they are new, and especially if you suspect that there may be issues you dont know about (whatever may have happened before they were adopted, transitioning to a new school, ect.) Its not "beyond neighborly" its called being the adult. Putting your big girl panties on.

And as for my pointing out that this has happened in a wealthy neighborhood, yes, it is exactly the type of place that I expect to find this type of behavior. Cliquish, passively racist, snooty behavior where someone's kids are more entitled to have a good time than someone else's kids. The OP is the one who started smack talking the other woman's house. The OP is the one who has some idea that her children and the other children are more entitled to time together than the new kids. The OP has come and given reasons and excuses for almost all of what she said in her first post, which feels like a lot of backtracking if you want my opinion about it.

I feel so sorry for that woman and her children. Honestly, I would be crying myself to sleep at night with anxiety about how I bought a house in the wrong neighborhood.

Here is the bottom line:
You are outside. When you are outside, you have no control over what other kids do and dont want to do. When you are playing on the sidewalk, in the street, or even in your front yard it is absurd to assume that someone else wouldnt want to play. These are children we are talking about. Dont dangle candy in their face if they arent allowed to have it. Its common sense.
post #75 of 99

I'm wondering if this has anything to do with Jealousy?  I believe the OP also started a thread about what to do about her mortgage that their family could no longer afford.  Now OP I realize that's a tough position to be in, it could be hard to watch some family nonchalantly waltz in and take the most expensive house on the block.  It's like a slap in the face when you yourself are struggling.  However like Adaline says put your big girl panties on, and like I say... get over yourself.  Get outside and make a positive difference in your neighborhood.  You never know Karma is a beast your kids and you could be the odd ones out in your next neighborhood! 

 

Honestly you should stop trying to justify what is going on there.  I've had lots of little kids I want to punt right out of my front yard.  The more you get to know the kids, the easier it is to fall in love with them. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adaline'sMama View Post

Elus0814,
I cant quote you because of the way you quoted me and all the bolding you did, but this is in response mainly to your assertion that the OP is being " beyond neighborly" for giving these kids a second chance.
They are KIDS. You give them second, third, fourth, and tenth chances. They are CHILDREN who are learning and growing, not adults who have formed personalities. The idea that children should have to make a good first impression for them to be accepted by the adults in the neighborhood is absolutely absurd to me. I believe you to be a slightly awful person if you dont allow children second chances, especially if you know that they are new, and especially if you suspect that there may be issues you dont know about (whatever may have happened before they were adopted, transitioning to a new school, ect.) Its not "beyond neighborly" its called being the adult. Putting your big girl panties on.
And as for my pointing out that this has happened in a wealthy neighborhood, yes, it is exactly the type of place that I expect to find this type of behavior. Cliquish, passively racist, snooty behavior where someone's kids are more entitled to have a good time than someone else's kids. The OP is the one who started smack talking the other woman's house. The OP is the one who has some idea that her children and the other children are more entitled to time together than the new kids. The OP has come and given reasons and excuses for almost all of what she said in her first post, which feels like a lot of backtracking if you want my opinion about it.
I feel so sorry for that woman and her children. Honestly, I would be crying myself to sleep at night with anxiety about how I bought a house in the wrong neighborhood.
Here is the bottom line:
You are outside. When you are outside, you have no control over what other kids do and dont want to do. When you are playing on the sidewalk, in the street, or even in your front yard it is absurd to assume that someone else wouldnt want to play. These are children we are talking about. Dont dangle candy in their face if they arent allowed to have it. Its common sense.


 

post #76 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunflower.mama View Post

Coming back to this thread after a day or so.  So interesting to hear the various responses.  People have either been the new neighbors, or they have been the old neighbors, and their opinions vary based on their own experience.  I appreciate the different perspectives.  As much as some of the PPs want to dismiss me as an elitist snob *I really am not one.*  I am a nice woman and mother.  I hugged the mother twice during our exchange.  Once for a minute or two, and rubbed her back.  If I wanted to blow her and her family off, believe me, I could do it.  I wouldn't be on here looking for advice.  Please try to give me the benefit of the doubt, as you're asking me to do with her and her kids, and adjust your tone accordingly.  Kind of funny to be virtually yelled at to be nicer to a stranger, by strangers who aren't being very nice to me.

 

Thanks for supportive/constructive comments. This whole thread has been enormously helpful to me and has really changed the way I am viewing the whole situation.  The mom has been laying low since that bad day when she confronted me.  I haven't seen her or her kids (except in passing so I do know they are physically OK).  And I am worried about her.  I have been walking down to check on her but have not encountered her yet.  I might not have been doing so if all of you hadn't helped me see this differently.  So thanks. 

 

why, you're practically mother Teresa!!  ROTFLMAO.gif

 

You shouldn't have to tell people 'No really!  I'm so nice I even HUGGED HER FOR A MINUTE!!' to prove you aren't just some jealous passively racist jerk who wants to use your kids as an excuse for excluding the new people.  That's like someone saying 'no really, I'm not sexist... I even let my wife get a short haircut!'

 

also?  I just love how the story keeps changing.  The situation just gets worse and worse the more people DON'T agree with you.  funny how that always seems to happen in threads where people just won't side with the OP.

post #77 of 99
[quote name="sunflower.mama" url= I hugged the mother twice during our exchange.  Once for a minute or two, and rubbed her back.  If I wanted to blow her and her family off, believe me, I could do it.

This comes off as so patronizing. Should she be grateful that you rubbed her back?
post #78 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post

I'm wondering if this has anything to do with Jealousy?  I believe the OP also started a thread about what to do about her mortgage that their family could no longer afford.  Now OP I realize that's a tough position to be in, it could be hard to watch some family nonchalantly waltz in and take the most expensive house on the block.  It's like a slap in the face when you yourself are struggling.  However like Adaline says put your big girl panties on, and like I say... get over yourself.  Get outside and make a positive difference in your neighborhood.  You never know Karma is a beast your kids and you could be the odd ones out in your next neighborhood! 

 

Honestly you should stop trying to justify what is going on there.  I've had lots of little kids I want to punt right out of my front yard.  The more you get to know the kids, the easier it is to fall in love with them.  

 


Even if you disagree with the OP, it is so not cool to go digging up her previous posts to throw in her face. How would you feel if someone did that to you? nono.gif
Edited by *bejeweled* - 10/17/11 at 4:46pm
post #79 of 99

I don't know if she is trying to throw it in her face maybe just dig deeper and get to the bottom of this mom's  feelings that many of us find offensive and upsetting.  shrug.gif  I don't know.... just an idea. I think we need to calm down and get off attack mode... I think she is seeing things differently and that's the main purpose of the thread right?  She needed help and has gotten lots of povs. Right?

post #80 of 99


Uh uh, I read her previous thread and to me that was the only logical explanation as to why she brought up the house.  Her belief that the kids were able to pick it and how she felt about that was pretty evident.  It didn't make sense that she would have even thrown in the price of their new house and commented on them never being able to sell the eyesore that's been on the market for so long.  So, yes I did dig.  Why?  How can you take anyone at face value?  I was an analyst in the Military... tell me to turn that off!   Anyway, I think it adds a little more into the whole issue and I can actually see what is really bothering her IMHO.  And she's human.  Maybe I'm wrong, I probably am.  However, I find it easier to understand some of what I would consider petty when I've found that there is much more to the whole issue.  And now I feel bad for the OP.  And I certainly hope that everything works out for her and her family and I understand her frustration a little more.  Now I still don't think she's being as nice as she can be but... oh well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by *bejeweled* View Post


Even if you disagree with the OP, it is so not cool to go digging up her previous posts to throw in her face. How would you feel if someone did that to you? nono.gif


 

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